"Theft, robbery and occasional murder" or a short guide to Thieves (solo or in group)
Southpaw
Member Posts: 2,026
Who is this guide for: Players that are interested in Thieves, but have never tried one because they aren't as imposing as fighters or mages (on the first sight).
Or if you have chosen a Thief and are struggling with it or feeling inferior to the simple Barbarians on lower levels.
Who is this guide not for: Berserkers that want to just hack everything in sight into pieces. Even though Thieves are quite capable at fighting, they are not Warriors and can not whip out weapon GM and 4 attacks-per-round.
This whole guide is about the fact, that we don't need to.
NOTE:this is guide is mainly to how play with Thieves in BG and early in BG2. After you get later into BG2, you'll know it anyway.
General Thief tactics or "I am not a Fighter, but I'll still tear you a new one"
Thieves' biggest in fighting problem is their low attack-per-round (APR) value. Except for Thieves dual- or multi-classed with a Fighter or the Swashbuckler, you won't have more than 1 APR.
We make up for it via other means. Namely ranged or throwing weapons, usable items with charges, potions and traps. Especially flaming potions, also adding the 'Arson' to the list of crimes.
Remember, you can use one special action during a round, be it casting a spell, chugging/throwing a potion or using a wand/item. Chain the actions.
Follow a backstab with a wand (of Missiles), a fireball (from "The one Gift Lost" necklace or a flaming oil flask) or a fire attack. (from the potion of Fire Breath or "Ring of Energy").
Swap weapons to a bow, move away and snipe the enemy. Mobility and strategy.
Another key is - preparation. Be Crazy Prepared. Scout ahead. Carefully place traps and then engage combat. Once your enemies turn against you, your traps will make them damn the day you were born.
Attack the mage first with a Dagger of Venom or poisoned weapon and watch him slowly die all the while being unable to cast. Because - let's face it - being a Thief is all about making those pesky air-headed egocentrics whine like little kids.
When things go south, don't forget you can slip into shadows again if you are out of line of sight. Run behind a corner and wait for your pursuer. Or turn yourself invisible with a spell or potion and then stalk back for a kill.
A smart Thief prepares several traps near the enemies and prepares another chain of traps leading away from them. Opens with a backstab, continues with a fireball or magic missile.
If anything has survived your attack and traps, just lead them towards your other waiting traps. Take the enemy out for a walk thru valley of pain to their demise.
And if someone survives first 2 rounds and subsequent traps, they should be already near death anyway. If not, a well placed "Horror" from your Bhaalspawn powers spices things up well.
Soloing or running with NPCs
Baldur's Gate games are perfectly able to solo even on Hard difficulty. Soloing the games usually needs more preparation, careful traps setting and manoeuvring the fights, opening with a back-stab and then running towards your traps.
Subsequently sniping the enemy while running from him if he isn't dead already (so-called "kiting").
With a party, your Tief will be either a scout or a back-row archer that takes care of the traps and locks. Or a good fight-opener with massive backstabs.
Thief Attributes, Skills and weapons (aka "There's more to Thieving than just traps and locks")
ATTRIBUTES
Get as high Dexterity as you can. Period.
Strength is not really important, but if you plan to back-stab a lot or are a Swashbuckler (needs melee), get at least 16-17 Strength.
Constitution helps to get as high as 15 or 16. After 16, it stops being beneficial. The rest of the attributes is up to you.
I personally like to have a high Charisma and get above-average scores for Wisdom (Lore bonus).
SKILLS
Open Locks, Disarm Traps, Set Traps and Detect Illusion have a real maximum at 100. You don't need more. Pick Pockets and Stealth skills can be raised up to 255 and they tend to be raised higher than 100.
OPEN LOCKS - important and good for everyone. Surprisingly enough, I was able to open almost all locks in the BGEE game with a score of 65-70.
FIND/DISARM TRAPS - important, but if you are not planning to go to Durlag's Tower, you can just soak the damage. (Plan B is automatically the party member with the highest HP pool)
HIDE IN SHADOWS/MOVE SILENTLY - Important for all stealthy types and back-stabbers. Less important for some multiclasses and Swashbucklers. To hide in shadows, both scores are averaged and taken into account. To further stay in shadows - the same.
If you try to hide in shadows on direct sunlight, you get a penalty, if you hide in shadows - you don't.
Keep in mind, that you will most probably get the Shadow Armour and the Worn Whispers(Boots of Shadow) that will help a huge lot.
SET TRAPS - an awesome skill that can turn a difficult battle into a stroll through a park. Bloody park, full of flesh and intestines hanging from the branches of the trees. Small blood pools here and there and brains splashed on the tree trunks...brains....where was I...yes! Easy.
PICK POCKETS - situationally awesome or completely impractical. There are few nice items you can nick, but it's better to spend your points elsewhere and use your fellow bard or another Thief to steal them. You need more points in this than 100 to be actually able to steal with at least some reliability.
DETECT ILLUSION - your True Sight that you can cast without casting. Not particularly important, but usable later in the saga.
NOTEs: Remember that for every +1 Dexterity, you will get +5% on each skill except Detect Illusion. As you can get +1 Tome in BGEE and +1 Dex Kiel's Buckler, you can get your skills to 90% and by the time you will need them to be that high, you will have that Tome and perhaps even the Buckler.
It is entirely possible to have the Kiel's buckler by in case a particular trap or a chest won't yield and equip it to get +5% that might make the difference.
Also, there are potions that can raise some of your skills for a while. Needed only for those few pesky traps or locks that need high levels.
Nifty, especially for the kits that get only 15/20% per level.
Melee Weapons
Daggers are a nice hybrid for starters, as one proficiency point will make you able to wield a good starting weapon (you can get a magical +1 Dagger within first 5 minutes in both BG and BG2)
Later on, Long Swords are common, cheap, easily to get and can back-stab. Short Swords are also okay. They get earlier with higher +Thac0 enchantments and that's what we need. However mostly, you are better off with Long Swords or Scimitars.
Some people like to wield (and back-stab with) Quarterstaves...if you like.
On first levels, you can use a buckler to get a lower AC, later on it's better to be able to swap between a melee weapon and Shortbow so Single Weapon proficiency takes over (also, makes you crit more).
Ranged Weapons
While Crossbows can be good, their APR is usually only 1 (except for the Army Scythe), so you are better off with Short Bows (2APR or better).
For poisoners, also Throwing Daggers and Darts because they have higher APR and can deliver more poison. Regrettably, there are no magical Throwing Daggers in BGEE, but in BG2EE, you can get your hands on a very good +2 (2d4) returning dagger (Bridge District), If you know where to look.
KITS and their description + usual tactics to employ.
Simple Thief
Lots of skill points to distribute, best with a ShortBow, avoid melee. Sincerely - if you want to play a Thief, pick a kit.
Assassin
The back-stabber and poisoner.
Your greatest ability is not your insane backstab modifier. It's the poison weapon skill. Especially on lower levels - this can win group fights alone by it's awesomeness.
Poisoning your weapon works best with high APR weapons. So shortbows or darts. Throwing daggers work too, but there aren't any magical ones in BGEE, so rather use the bows. In BG2, there are some good throwing daggers, so this becomes useful again.
Combining Weapon poison and Arrows of Biting is a nasty combo.
The innate +1Thac0 bonus is great, but the "only 15% to thieving skills per level" hurts a lot. Usually, it needs you to focus on few skills and have another Thief to take care of the rest.
Starts getting better at levels 10+.
Bounty Hunter
Traps, traps and even more traps.
Except for back-stabbing, not a front-line fighter. Best used with a ShortBow or Throwing Daggers, sniping his/her prey and luring them towards traps. Good tactic is to scout ahead while stalking and set up traps just out of line of waiting baddies.
Use your special traps, along with the normal ones-learn what your special trap does according to the level you are on. Slowing a dangerous melee enemy is priceless.
Shadow Dancer
Your back-stabbing expert.
Back-stab, disappear, stalk, back-stab, vanish, stalk...lather rinse repeat. Low skill points per level makes him/her a lousy Thief (needs stealth to amount to anything in battle, which leaves less points for locks or traps).
Niche class that needs a huge lot of micro-management. Can't put down traps, which can makes soloing a bit more difficult.
Swashbuckler
Almost a Fighter-Thief with ultra-fast levelling.
No back-stab means you probably won't need to spend many points into stalking. Unless you use your Swashbuckler as a scout. 25% to Thief Skills per level means you will have plenty of points to put into them and you can focus on more skills at once.
A Swashbuckler needs less micro-management than other Thieves and can just act as another Fighter-type. With the added bonus of being also a Thief. Who needs back-stab, when we have traps? (Well, a back-stab would be great, but...)
They can get 3 pips in dual-wielding, so you should use it (even though you won't have enough proficiency pips until lvl 12)
Preferred weapons are Scimitars, Long Swords and perhaps Daggers. (in BG2EE, get hold of the +2 Scimitar or Short Sword that give you +1 APR)
The innate bonuses to +hit/+dmg and -AC won't do much till level 10 and the Swashbuckler is not as viable front-liner during most of BGEE, but he/she start being considerably more dangerous later on levels 15+.
NOTE: The Swashbuckler does NOT get an extra 1/2 of an attack per round from his second pip in a weapon. While wielding one weapon, you will have exactly 1APR, if you dual-wield, your APR will be 2. That's why it's good to get a speed weapon in BG2EE (Short Sword or Scimitar)
NOTE2: BGEE-start proficiencies: It's better to put two pips into your preferred weapon (to get the +THAC0 bonus) and use a buckler for a while. Buckley's Buckler is a good candidate for start. Second pip should go to the Two-weapons proficiency, but stick to the buckler.
Later in the game, when you get your second pip in dual-wielding, you can start using two weapons. The second weapon will have a -4 Thac0 penalty, but main hand won't.
Fighter-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Whether you dual- or multi-class, this is a strong Thief, that can also fight. Dualling is done from F to T. Not vice-versa. Does not really matter, which Fighter you choose as the UAI (Use Any Item) High-Level-Ability overrides any forbidden items your Kensai or Wizard Slayer may have had. (And it's actually the almost only way to make the un-modded Wizard Slayer kit usable)
In BGEE, you can get to lvl 7 of Fighter and still get to lvl 8 with the Thief to reactivate your Fighter levels.
Dualling is best done on levels 7 (in BGEE), 9 (start of BG2EE) or at lvl 13 (Fighter gets another 1/2 APR on lvl 13).
Multiclasses are usually strong enough to kill everyone anyway as a Fighter and the Thief is more of an utility-side or back-stabbing.
This sort of Thief is easier to play than the pure thief or kits.
Cleric-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Quite unusual combination and not recommended to be used for soloing, this setup is focused on party utility, because this Thief can not fight as well, nor he/she can use any of the sharp weapons for backstabbing.
Well, save the staffs, but I have mentioned the idiocy of sneaking with a 2m/6ft pole earlier. Expect to be spending most of your time looking for traps, opening locks and casting spells.
If you want to fight, opt for dual-classing from a Swashbuckler at lvl 11 or 12 (if you want the extra proficiency point) and liberal use of Draw Upon Holy Might. Do expect to have some THAC0 problems.
Mage-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Oh yes, the usual sneaky caster. This class combo (along with F/M/T) is one of the most versatile characters ever, having the powerful Thief abilities and some reality-bending magic under his/her hood.
Useful items
BGEE - Dagger of Venom, "Worn Whispers" Boots, Shadow Armour. + small trinkets like "The one gift lost" (= Fireball necklace), Sandthief's Ring
BG2EE - any good weapon, like the 3APR Shortbow, +2 returning Throwing Dagger, Grandmaster's Armour, speed weapons, Mercykiller's Ring...it just gets better and better.
There's one particular interesting piece of equipment to be bought in Copper Coronet = a Ninja-to for Monks with 2APR and great stats. Can't use it yet, but you can - later with UAI.
BG2EE and ToB strategy and further development
In BG2, you will get more skill points, which starts making even the Assassin a viable Thief. Keep using traps and tactics to your advantage.
Later, in ToB, you will meet some enemies, that are immune to back-stab. Kill them the old-fashioned way then.
With high-level traps, even the Dragons will tremble. But be wary - the Time Stop snare is a double-edged sword.
Some enemies are resistant to it and having your Thief to solo a beefcake boss is not what passes for a nice Saturday evening.
I hope this was helpful to those that wondered about proper thievery...
Or if you have chosen a Thief and are struggling with it or feeling inferior to the simple Barbarians on lower levels.
Who is this guide not for: Berserkers that want to just hack everything in sight into pieces. Even though Thieves are quite capable at fighting, they are not Warriors and can not whip out weapon GM and 4 attacks-per-round.
This whole guide is about the fact, that we don't need to.
NOTE:this is guide is mainly to how play with Thieves in BG and early in BG2. After you get later into BG2, you'll know it anyway.
General Thief tactics or "I am not a Fighter, but I'll still tear you a new one"
Thieves' biggest in fighting problem is their low attack-per-round (APR) value. Except for Thieves dual- or multi-classed with a Fighter or the Swashbuckler, you won't have more than 1 APR.
We make up for it via other means. Namely ranged or throwing weapons, usable items with charges, potions and traps. Especially flaming potions, also adding the 'Arson' to the list of crimes.
Remember, you can use one special action during a round, be it casting a spell, chugging/throwing a potion or using a wand/item. Chain the actions.
Follow a backstab with a wand (of Missiles), a fireball (from "The one Gift Lost" necklace or a flaming oil flask) or a fire attack. (from the potion of Fire Breath or "Ring of Energy").
Swap weapons to a bow, move away and snipe the enemy. Mobility and strategy.
Another key is - preparation. Be Crazy Prepared. Scout ahead. Carefully place traps and then engage combat. Once your enemies turn against you, your traps will make them damn the day you were born.
Attack the mage first with a Dagger of Venom or poisoned weapon and watch him slowly die all the while being unable to cast. Because - let's face it - being a Thief is all about making those pesky air-headed egocentrics whine like little kids.
When things go south, don't forget you can slip into shadows again if you are out of line of sight. Run behind a corner and wait for your pursuer. Or turn yourself invisible with a spell or potion and then stalk back for a kill.
A smart Thief prepares several traps near the enemies and prepares another chain of traps leading away from them. Opens with a backstab, continues with a fireball or magic missile.
If anything has survived your attack and traps, just lead them towards your other waiting traps. Take the enemy out for a walk thru valley of pain to their demise.
And if someone survives first 2 rounds and subsequent traps, they should be already near death anyway. If not, a well placed "Horror" from your Bhaalspawn powers spices things up well.
Soloing or running with NPCs
Baldur's Gate games are perfectly able to solo even on Hard difficulty. Soloing the games usually needs more preparation, careful traps setting and manoeuvring the fights, opening with a back-stab and then running towards your traps.
Subsequently sniping the enemy while running from him if he isn't dead already (so-called "kiting").
With a party, your Tief will be either a scout or a back-row archer that takes care of the traps and locks. Or a good fight-opener with massive backstabs.
Thief Attributes, Skills and weapons (aka "There's more to Thieving than just traps and locks")
ATTRIBUTES
Get as high Dexterity as you can. Period.
Strength is not really important, but if you plan to back-stab a lot or are a Swashbuckler (needs melee), get at least 16-17 Strength.
Constitution helps to get as high as 15 or 16. After 16, it stops being beneficial. The rest of the attributes is up to you.
I personally like to have a high Charisma and get above-average scores for Wisdom (Lore bonus).
SKILLS
Open Locks, Disarm Traps, Set Traps and Detect Illusion have a real maximum at 100. You don't need more. Pick Pockets and Stealth skills can be raised up to 255 and they tend to be raised higher than 100.
OPEN LOCKS - important and good for everyone. Surprisingly enough, I was able to open almost all locks in the BGEE game with a score of 65-70.
FIND/DISARM TRAPS - important, but if you are not planning to go to Durlag's Tower, you can just soak the damage. (Plan B is automatically the party member with the highest HP pool)
HIDE IN SHADOWS/MOVE SILENTLY - Important for all stealthy types and back-stabbers. Less important for some multiclasses and Swashbucklers. To hide in shadows, both scores are averaged and taken into account. To further stay in shadows - the same.
If you try to hide in shadows on direct sunlight, you get a penalty, if you hide in shadows - you don't.
Keep in mind, that you will most probably get the Shadow Armour and the Worn Whispers(Boots of Shadow) that will help a huge lot.
SET TRAPS - an awesome skill that can turn a difficult battle into a stroll through a park. Bloody park, full of flesh and intestines hanging from the branches of the trees. Small blood pools here and there and brains splashed on the tree trunks...brains....where was I...yes! Easy.
PICK POCKETS - situationally awesome or completely impractical. There are few nice items you can nick, but it's better to spend your points elsewhere and use your fellow bard or another Thief to steal them. You need more points in this than 100 to be actually able to steal with at least some reliability.
DETECT ILLUSION - your True Sight that you can cast without casting. Not particularly important, but usable later in the saga.
NOTEs: Remember that for every +1 Dexterity, you will get +5% on each skill except Detect Illusion. As you can get +1 Tome in BGEE and +1 Dex Kiel's Buckler, you can get your skills to 90% and by the time you will need them to be that high, you will have that Tome and perhaps even the Buckler.
It is entirely possible to have the Kiel's buckler by in case a particular trap or a chest won't yield and equip it to get +5% that might make the difference.
Also, there are potions that can raise some of your skills for a while. Needed only for those few pesky traps or locks that need high levels.
Nifty, especially for the kits that get only 15/20% per level.
Melee Weapons
Daggers are a nice hybrid for starters, as one proficiency point will make you able to wield a good starting weapon (you can get a magical +1 Dagger within first 5 minutes in both BG and BG2)
Later on, Long Swords are common, cheap, easily to get and can back-stab. Short Swords are also okay. They get earlier with higher +Thac0 enchantments and that's what we need. However mostly, you are better off with Long Swords or Scimitars.
Some people like to wield (and back-stab with) Quarterstaves...if you like.
On first levels, you can use a buckler to get a lower AC, later on it's better to be able to swap between a melee weapon and Shortbow so Single Weapon proficiency takes over (also, makes you crit more).
Ranged Weapons
While Crossbows can be good, their APR is usually only 1 (except for the Army Scythe), so you are better off with Short Bows (2APR or better).
For poisoners, also Throwing Daggers and Darts because they have higher APR and can deliver more poison. Regrettably, there are no magical Throwing Daggers in BGEE, but in BG2EE, you can get your hands on a very good +2 (2d4) returning dagger (Bridge District), If you know where to look.
KITS and their description + usual tactics to employ.
Simple Thief
Lots of skill points to distribute, best with a ShortBow, avoid melee. Sincerely - if you want to play a Thief, pick a kit.
Assassin
The back-stabber and poisoner.
Your greatest ability is not your insane backstab modifier. It's the poison weapon skill. Especially on lower levels - this can win group fights alone by it's awesomeness.
Poisoning your weapon works best with high APR weapons. So shortbows or darts. Throwing daggers work too, but there aren't any magical ones in BGEE, so rather use the bows. In BG2, there are some good throwing daggers, so this becomes useful again.
Combining Weapon poison and Arrows of Biting is a nasty combo.
The innate +1Thac0 bonus is great, but the "only 15% to thieving skills per level" hurts a lot. Usually, it needs you to focus on few skills and have another Thief to take care of the rest.
Starts getting better at levels 10+.
Bounty Hunter
Traps, traps and even more traps.
Except for back-stabbing, not a front-line fighter. Best used with a ShortBow or Throwing Daggers, sniping his/her prey and luring them towards traps. Good tactic is to scout ahead while stalking and set up traps just out of line of waiting baddies.
Use your special traps, along with the normal ones-learn what your special trap does according to the level you are on. Slowing a dangerous melee enemy is priceless.
Shadow Dancer
Your back-stabbing expert.
Back-stab, disappear, stalk, back-stab, vanish, stalk...lather rinse repeat. Low skill points per level makes him/her a lousy Thief (needs stealth to amount to anything in battle, which leaves less points for locks or traps).
Niche class that needs a huge lot of micro-management. Can't put down traps, which can makes soloing a bit more difficult.
Swashbuckler
Almost a Fighter-Thief with ultra-fast levelling.
No back-stab means you probably won't need to spend many points into stalking. Unless you use your Swashbuckler as a scout. 25% to Thief Skills per level means you will have plenty of points to put into them and you can focus on more skills at once.
A Swashbuckler needs less micro-management than other Thieves and can just act as another Fighter-type. With the added bonus of being also a Thief. Who needs back-stab, when we have traps? (Well, a back-stab would be great, but...)
They can get 3 pips in dual-wielding, so you should use it (even though you won't have enough proficiency pips until lvl 12)
Preferred weapons are Scimitars, Long Swords and perhaps Daggers. (in BG2EE, get hold of the +2 Scimitar or Short Sword that give you +1 APR)
The innate bonuses to +hit/+dmg and -AC won't do much till level 10 and the Swashbuckler is not as viable front-liner during most of BGEE, but he/she start being considerably more dangerous later on levels 15+.
NOTE: The Swashbuckler does NOT get an extra 1/2 of an attack per round from his second pip in a weapon. While wielding one weapon, you will have exactly 1APR, if you dual-wield, your APR will be 2. That's why it's good to get a speed weapon in BG2EE (Short Sword or Scimitar)
NOTE2: BGEE-start proficiencies: It's better to put two pips into your preferred weapon (to get the +THAC0 bonus) and use a buckler for a while. Buckley's Buckler is a good candidate for start. Second pip should go to the Two-weapons proficiency, but stick to the buckler.
Later in the game, when you get your second pip in dual-wielding, you can start using two weapons. The second weapon will have a -4 Thac0 penalty, but main hand won't.
Fighter-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Whether you dual- or multi-class, this is a strong Thief, that can also fight. Dualling is done from F to T. Not vice-versa. Does not really matter, which Fighter you choose as the UAI (Use Any Item) High-Level-Ability overrides any forbidden items your Kensai or Wizard Slayer may have had. (And it's actually the almost only way to make the un-modded Wizard Slayer kit usable)
In BGEE, you can get to lvl 7 of Fighter and still get to lvl 8 with the Thief to reactivate your Fighter levels.
Dualling is best done on levels 7 (in BGEE), 9 (start of BG2EE) or at lvl 13 (Fighter gets another 1/2 APR on lvl 13).
Multiclasses are usually strong enough to kill everyone anyway as a Fighter and the Thief is more of an utility-side or back-stabbing.
This sort of Thief is easier to play than the pure thief or kits.
Cleric-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Quite unusual combination and not recommended to be used for soloing, this setup is focused on party utility, because this Thief can not fight as well, nor he/she can use any of the sharp weapons for backstabbing.
Well, save the staffs, but I have mentioned the idiocy of sneaking with a 2m/6ft pole earlier. Expect to be spending most of your time looking for traps, opening locks and casting spells.
If you want to fight, opt for dual-classing from a Swashbuckler at lvl 11 or 12 (if you want the extra proficiency point) and liberal use of Draw Upon Holy Might. Do expect to have some THAC0 problems.
Mage-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Oh yes, the usual sneaky caster. This class combo (along with F/M/T) is one of the most versatile characters ever, having the powerful Thief abilities and some reality-bending magic under his/her hood.
Useful items
BGEE - Dagger of Venom, "Worn Whispers" Boots, Shadow Armour. + small trinkets like "The one gift lost" (= Fireball necklace), Sandthief's Ring
BG2EE - any good weapon, like the 3APR Shortbow, +2 returning Throwing Dagger, Grandmaster's Armour, speed weapons, Mercykiller's Ring...it just gets better and better.
There's one particular interesting piece of equipment to be bought in Copper Coronet = a Ninja-to for Monks with 2APR and great stats. Can't use it yet, but you can - later with UAI.
BG2EE and ToB strategy and further development
In BG2, you will get more skill points, which starts making even the Assassin a viable Thief. Keep using traps and tactics to your advantage.
Later, in ToB, you will meet some enemies, that are immune to back-stab. Kill them the old-fashioned way then.
With high-level traps, even the Dragons will tremble. But be wary - the Time Stop snare is a double-edged sword.
Some enemies are resistant to it and having your Thief to solo a beefcake boss is not what passes for a nice Saturday evening.
I hope this was helpful to those that wondered about proper thievery...
Post edited by Southpaw on
23
Comments
Also, I did not know in which category to put this, so if it's in a wrong one, please move it. Thanks.
All of you, weak wizards and freaky warriors, you don't have enough cunning to be a Thief with the capital "T". Goody clerics and black guards, you can't do absolutely nothing to backstab for 200+ damage. Druids and monks - what are your animals and fists if compared to 7 traps?
Thieves rule all.
The only thing I'd change is the dual classing bit. If you're dual classing from Fighter into Thief, you want to do it at level 7, 9, or 13. Level 10 is bad.
The thief gets a hit die at level 10 (1d6 + CON bonus), while a fighter would get a flat 3 HP.
Also, choosing Berseker or Kensai both have advantages.
Note that cleric/thieves do have some solo viability due to early access to animate dead in BG:EE and that clubs do exactly the same damage as staves from an RP backstabbing perspective.
While discussing skill point allocations, I recommend that you also ought to mention that Open Locks, Find Traps, Set Traps and Detect Illusion are all perfected at 100 points, so it's useless to have more than that, whereas Pick Pockets, Hide in Shadows and Move Silently all go on improving up to 255 points. That's a slight over-simplification. The bonus progression of HS and MS slows down for DEX >19 ... but perhaps that's a complication not worth introducing. It might be worth saying "some of your skills", since no potion raises all of them. Hmmm, well, for a "beginner's guide" that's a sensible recommendation, yes. Nevertheless, there are a couple of playable builds in which you might want to give a Fighter an initial dose of a few (kitted) Thief levels before dualling into Fighter ... but I'd advise against anyone doing that until after they're thoroughly familiar with what they're doing. I'd have supported that comment until the latest patch a few days ago. Now, a WS causes casting-failure on ranged hits as well as melee, which means that it's suddenly much more usable (in a sniping role). I'm not saying it's a great kit, but there is now some sort of sensible use for it. Since that has happened, I'd recommend just deleting this remark. I'd argue that's exactly the wrong time to dual out of swashie. Holding on for level 11 gives you another +1 bonus to AC, and gives you one more trap/day, and also converts your basic traps into the significantly more powerful poison traps, so it's always worth waiting to level 11 before dualling a swashie. I also find that it's then often worth waiting to level 12, for the extra proficiency point, since swashies are always crying out for more proficiency so as to give their special second point to additional weapons. So dual at 11 or 12, not 10. Well, technically it's a ninja-to, not a scimitar. I agree that the difference between scimitars and ninja-tos doesn't much matter to a Thief, but you might as well be accurate. Well perhaps, but some blue-circled dragons (I've particularly noticed this with Saladrex) will instantly turn hostile if you sneakily try to set a trap near them, so this can be dangerous advice in some cases!
My reasons: while C/T might get strong at the lower levels, with animate dead, he or she will invariably have problems with high THAC0 and not able to hit things later, having to be constantly buffed-up to get the THAC0 a bit lower to actually hit high-level enemies. Also, no dual-wielding and low APR.
But of course - you can play C/T, if you wish.
I'll fix most of the typos and errors. I did not catch that. But okay, I'll change it. Really? Okay...remark stays! :-) Wait...has something changed? Truly, I haven't dualled out of a Swashie since old BG2, maybe it just got "finally fixed".
Anyway an Assassin 6 dualed to Fighter gives you enough points for 100 Detect Illusion and 2x Poison Weapon per day which makes it a pretty cool character to play around to assassinate Mages !
Very good guide @Southpaw
Everything has it's cons and pros - however this guide is more for the new blood or people who haven't played with Thieves a lot. If you devise a diabolic plan to dual-class a ShadowDancer to a Fighter to create a niché build, you probably don't need any guide any more.
Btw - yes. Swashbuckler to Fighter is an interesting attempt at a build that maximizes THAC0 and AC (Swashbuckler's bonuses) combined with weapon proficiencies and Fighter's APR.
Does not get the Swashie's HLAs and will have half the HP of a straight Fighter though.
Thanks again for the fascinating read.
Well, how I try to handle these situations in "more RP, less meta-gaming" fashion:
step 0) Set a pre-emptive trap somewhere. Or two, if you are expecting trouble. And you should be, this is an RPG. This is your "Life insurance".
step 1) Hide in shadows and stalk ahead. If you see someone interesting, perhaps because of their fancy clothing, unusual placement, suspicious behaviour and positioning ... (or being named) ... fall back a bit out of their sight.
step 2) Prepare. Remember? Be "Crazy Prepared"! Cast buffs, quaff a potion, set a snare. Another one, than the one in step 0.
step 3) Approach them. If they aren't hostile - it's good. If they attack, respond in kind.
step 4) Dangerous situation - fight Now you can use your venom, arrows or flasks of fiery burning. Lure the enemy to your snares you have set down at step 2 (if they are melee, they might have just walked into it anyway). If necessary, don't worry and run. (Think of it as "advancing backwards"). Not far, just out of their sight, to slip into shadows and pay them back with a backstab. Or put down another Snare. And...of course...when things go rough, fall back to the "safety insurance" snare you have set at step 0.
This is how I have actually done the "Tarnesh encounter" in my solo Bounty Hunter RP run:
Tom Mischief (Charname) crept inside Friendly Arm Inn, followed by stern looks of the guards.
The surroundings looked less Friendly, but very much Armed, so right after crossing the gate, he darted aside to the shadows. There, in the dark, he laid down a snare, muttering something about long and spiky arm of Justice.
Longing for an Ale, he advanced to the welcoming door to the Inn, keeping to the shadows when he spotted a tall man in a robe standing near the entrance. His short goatee, ruffled eyebrows and an aura of arrogance just screamed "Evil Wizard" to Tom, peeking from behind the corner. The robe was undoubtedly magical, judging from the expensive silk, captivating symbols ... and a blue circle that appeared around him always when Tom curled his left-hand fingers in a certain way.
Still sticking to the shadows, he set down another snare, just behind the corner. With a sound "ZANG", the huge device rested peacefully in the tall grass and Tom only had to pray that some wandering idiot does not prematurely set it off.
Feeling a bit less nervous, the weary Thief walked out of the comforting shadows into naked pale sunlight. The wizard saw him immediately and approached him, words of honey contrasting with his grim face. The exchange was short, pointless and ended with one disillusioned Thief, one ruined mage robe and one half-dead wizard cursing a large arrow, sticking out from his stomach. However, that did not seem to be the end of it, as the wizard continued to cast spells, waving arcane symbols with bloody hands.
Tom darted behind the corner again and literally jumped to his dear shadows. As soon as he thought, he was hidden enough, he looked back at the wizard. The fool started attacking some guards nearby.
It took only five heartbeats to slide along the wall, behind his back and plant a dagger in, further destroying the mage robe and ending one miserable life.
Standing over the bleeding husk, the Bounty Hunter grabbed his hood and spoke through clenched teeth: "Seems like you got a bit ... ", pulling the hood down " ...tarnished".
Now, Cleric Thief is downright solid, if brutally counter-intuitive. I did a solo multi, and mostly relied on aggressive use of my spells, while my thief abilities allowed for traps, backstabs, and utility thievery. Skellies steamrolled most enemies, especially Held or Commanded enemies. Clerics are very, very good at lower levels, they are strictly speaking the best class till Mages hit immunity to Command, then Mages are better, though a smart cleric can Silence them still.
Overall pretty close to how I play thief-types!
@the_spyder if you go cleric thief, command wins this every time. Its no save. For a pure thief solo, just sneak past. You actually dont need to go in the FAI, especially if you are soloing, but vs Tarnesh and many casters, get into sight to trigger him, and talk where you can run off and hide... then shank him good.
If you are feeling experimental but not like joining a weird love commune thing, a dart using assassin will eat Tarnesh for breakfast. Any dart user will, actually.
Thieves are so much fun. I often wonder why is it that someone who can’t play evil to save her life, just adores sneaking around, picking nobles pockets and laying traps. Not to mention those lovely locked chests, just beckoning nimble fingers to unlock their treasures. It just never gets old.
In general, however, I don't rate halflings very highly. For almost all classes and kits, there's some other race which is actually better-suited for it than a halfling.
Halfers are incredibly good multi thieves, since their starting values are so good. Makes up for their multi often, and means full utility and full combat skills (trapping and stealth) pretty early.
Plus I find it easier to role play a childlike wonder for Charname, trusting everyone at first and then quickly becoming so jaded that he has no problem picking the general populous clean. But that may just be me.
(There is a mod, I think it's called Multiclassed Multikit Builder Mod, that allow you to somehow bypass the restriction of one kit per character. Not sure if it's been made EE-compatible.)
However, to pull this off, you would need to create a multiclass, add the Wizard Slayer kit in EEKeeper and then manually do the Assassin kit changes = add the venoms as innate abilities, remove 10 Thieving points perl level, EVERY LEVEL, somehow get another +1THAC0/+1dmg bonus and remove your gamer's conscience in the process...
Alternatively (legal way), you can create a Wizard Slayer human, specializing into darts or shortbows and dual-class at level 7 into a Thief and try to specialize into poison arrows/darts to simulate the venom ability. (You'll get lvl 8 in BGEE)
EDIT: I'd do that. **** cheaters.