The game does have a difficulty slider perhaps you had it set a bit on the low side? The game on easy is actually pretty easy lol. Alec' should pretty much put you on blast unless you're perfectly prepared and spend a minute or so drinking the proper potions due to his gaze attack, his lady friend, and his penchant for casting other spells.
I will say broadly that EE is easier than TuTu was - because every time I installed Tutu the spawns went absolutely insane - 10+ gibberlings all spawning inside of each other and so forth.
I know this seems hard to comprehend to people here, but i would like to play in places where i can't conveniently use a computer. Like public transit..
The game does have a difficulty slider perhaps you had it set a bit on the low side? The game on easy is actually pretty easy lol. Alec' should pretty much put you on blast unless you're perfectly prepared and spend a minute or so drinking the proper potions due to his gaze attack, his lady friend, and his penchant for casting other spells.
I will say broadly that EE is easier than TuTu was - because every time I installed Tutu the spawns went absolutely insane - 10+ gibberlings all spawning inside of each other and so forth.
I have said repeatedly i want a game that is difficult, in the right places and for the the reasons. I am trying to argue that the main difficulty being early and due to random-chance events is stupid. I want to be able to think and plan through all battles and problems in the game. Not "oh i travelled and got surrounded by 8 skeletons time to re-load until that doesn't happen" difficulty.
Also to whoever said vampire wolves dont exist in the day was totally wrong
I have said repeatedly i want a game that is difficult, in the right places and for the the reasons. I am trying to argue that the main difficulty being early and due to random-chance events is stupid. I want to be able to think and plan through all battles and problems in the game. Not "oh i travelled and got surrounded by 8 skeletons time to re-load until that doesn't happen" difficulty.
Play another game? Unpredictability is part of the fun and the challenge.
And if you want to plan through all the encounters, go to GameFAQs and read walkthroughs of all the battles and how to defeat them.
And a game which is predictable, is boring. You know what comes, what to do and how to deal with it. The real skill is surviving when the odds are not in your favor.
It looks to me like you want a linear game where you see each challenge coming a mile away so you prepare and deal with it, rinse and repeat.
And that's DnD. In PnP the DM doesn't tell you exactly what you'll face "so better prepare from now". It's more like: "You walked inside a room and see five orcs, roll for initiative." It doesn't go: "Alright guys, in the next room, there'll be five orcs, 3 level each and a shaman which is 5 level two of them are archers, the dimensions of the room are 20x20, there are two tables and one of the orcs is sick, the one on the top right corner. So rest and prepare now."
And since BG is based on DnD, it has that unpredictability of PnP.
And really, what's the point of this thread again? To tell us that BG doesn't tell you everything and hand-holds you while you just do the fighting? Or that the game should change to suit people's style? Or that we're wrong for liking it for what it is?
Really, what I read above is: "The game is unpredictable and random, it should be without any surprises and just have hard fights because I cannot adapt or think on the spot."
Not to sound harsh, but that's the nature of the beast. Deal with it, like we did or play another game.
By the way, vampiric wolves are not typical vampires. http://www.lomion.de/cmm/wolfvamp.php "Unlike a vampire, these wolves can move about in daylight, though they normally choose not to do so. When attacking in daylight, they suffer a -2 penalty."
I kinda think this has really outlived it's usefulness. The OP clearly has expectations that are not being met by this game. And that is perfectly fine. Perhaps they are better suited for other types of games. But that is not for me or anyone but them to say.
What I will say is that, if the OP wants to play on a mobile device, that is why the folks at Beamdog worked on mobile device platform. However, if you make that decision, you have to accept that there are certain limitations to a mobile device (i.e. no mods etc...) and therefore voicing the complaint (and I am not saying the OP said this but it can be read that way) "I want to play on a mobile device AND I want the Mods" seems a bit pointless.
Additionally, most of the RPG games that I have ever played had areas that were accessible by low level characters, but you REALLY SHOULDN'T GO. Most places are marked thus, but not all of them. That's the type of game that open ended RPG games normally are. Since this is not to the OP's taste, that again is perfectly fine. But understand that IS the type of game that BG is. Sometimes you get that random encounter that totally spanks you. That's just the nature of the game. Not really worth complaining about. Or if you want to complain, perhaps try a different type of game? Just sayin...
for me, the solution that some "modern" games have taken, i.e. the world levels up with you and you can walk into that Dragon's lair at level 1 because the dragon will only be your level, I think THAT is the height of stupidity. It's a DRAGON. They SHOULD kill level 1 characters. But that is my preference. And when I encounter it in a game like Oblivion, I don't harrange the developers endlessly about it. I let others do that for me (tee hee).. Seriously, if I don't like that type of game, I go play a different type of game.
At the end of the day, we get that the OP was dissatisfied. I think most of their complaints have been beaten to death. Can we move on please?
There's a mod that makes the game linear and predictable?
More or less. OOO (Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul) reworks the levelled lists considerably so there's far less of the type of things you don't like about it. It still exists, but not nearly as much as before. There's a few other mods that do the same sort of thing as well. Francesco's is another major one. There's also a compilation mod that will combine otherwise incompatible mods together. FCOM is the acronym, though I don't know what the letters stand for. Put them all altogether and the game would probably be more to your liking.
@Belanos Actually, I was talking about Baldur's Gate.
I know of Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul but I think it's the other way around. Instead of knowing what to expect, the enemies have set levels, items and stats so you can be walking into a surprise and challenge. So it's actually more unpredictable.
While vanilla Oblivion is quite predictable because everything is scaling to your level, so nothing is underleveled or overlevelled compared to you.
And yes, Oblivion without Oscuro's or FCOM is awful. It's a lazy boring mess.
I might have to look into that Oblivion Mod, because I always hated that about Oblivion. I know a guy who beat the game as a level 2 (you had to rest before the final battle and thus level up) and the final boss was a JOKE as a result.
Maybe I just grew up on these types of games, but I am hard pressed to think of a game that I liked where you couldn't get totally slaughtered by a random encounter if you weren't EXTREMELY careful. It could be Rad Scorpions in Wasteland or Rats in Sewers in NWN or walking into a room full of Trolls at level 4 in Pool of radiance (gold box), or getting overwhelmed after making a single mistake in ToEE in the Deklo grove. The list goes on.
It is in the nature of these types of games (in my mind) that you HAVE to start out weak, and that means vulnerable. As you gain power, you die less often and start dominating your opponents. That is the nature of the leveling system. That is it's beauty, not a weakness. Sure it is frustrating at times. But it is also rewarding when something that killed you before is now a cake walk.
I've been playing Shadow of Mordor lately and there is this one Urk who kicked my ranger butt every single time I faced him. Long about the time he got promoted to 20th level, I caught up with him and totally killed his face. Seeing the in game cut scene when he begged for his life was so very satisfying. If he hadn't killed me repeatedly prior to that, the scene wouldn't have had that much of an impact "For me". So I like and expect that from a game. If ya don't? Maybe BG isn't your bag. And that's fine as well.
But I hope that the OP actually finds some way to enjoy the game because it is really an amazing game.
So i REALLY SHOULDNT explore the 1st area you get to as lv1 becuase I'll die? So i REALLY SHOULDNT rest or fast travel before getting to lv3 party of 6 becuase I'll die??
I have not seen a good argument as to how this is a good thing. Also It is VERY linear, how was this even brought up?? There is only a single road and small list of fights you can possibly win until level 3 full party. Then the game is moderately hard, them you get good spells and the game breaks and is piss easy.
I would have no problem with random fights if they were STATISTICALLY POSSIBLE to win with good game play. I would have no problem with early random encounters if there was something you could other than watch and see "who hits the other guy 2 times first because everything has 20% chance to hit for 5 damage with 9 health".
This is not exciting or "difficult" it is stupid. It is just re-loading until you successfully rest or travel
Game difficulty as time goes on: Re-load if you get hit Re-load if you get attacked while travelling Re-load if you go the wrong way Moderate Easy Really easy Kill the whole chess board where they stand with fireballs when they are out of sight, never even engaging
"Awesome i love dnd"
This is what i would like: Game tells you how it works You learn mechanics without extensive out-of-game help Fights are moderate Fights get harder Enemies take better problem solving Enemies require good plan and performance to win an it's quite hard Last boss or dungeon is difficult and satisfying to beat
If we just fundamentally disagree then a guess that's that
This is not exciting or "difficult" it is stupid. It is just re-loading until you successfully rest or travel
Well if you feel that way, then don't play it. Move on to something else, it seems pretty obvious it's not the right game for you. No game is going to appeal to everyone and simply griping about it is accomplishing nothing. You've been carrying on in this thread for quite some time now, don't you have better things to do with your time?
I'll bet most of us here only rarely reload. At least not anymore.
And no doubt, those wth extensive AD&D experience had a big advantage going in.
But yes, the risk of everything heading south in hurry is a huge part of the appeal of getting started. And the balance of D&D has always been, fragile at the start, then increasing power that makes survivability easier, until you become a real force and power in the world. By that end, routine encounters pose little threat. Only a small number of experienced or very dangerous monsters pose any real problems. If you found every fight at the end easy, congratulations, you're obviously a genius far beyond any of us mere mortals who hang out here. Perhaps you should be playing chess against Deep Blue.
So i REALLY SHOULDNT explore the 1st area you get to as lv1 becuase I'll die? So i REALLY SHOULDNT rest or fast travel before getting to lv3 party of 6 becuase I'll die??
I think I have figured out what your issue is. You want to be able to defeat every single encounter that you run across, regardless of your level. That is not the type of game this is. You have to learn to know when to fight and know when to run away. I am not talking about meta-gaming, I am talking about scouting out the area and seeing what is there before you get into a fight with it. If you had sent your thief into the area with the Vamp Wolf, and saw the designation 'Vamp', would you have attacked it? Because logic would suggest that this is a tough opponent best suited for later when you have more power.
You also talk about random encounters. Did you know that you can run from them? Yeah, it is tough and you can take casualties. But you can merely have your party dart for the nearest 'wall' and run away.
I really think that you are expecting that nothing will be so tough that you can't defeat it out of the gate. And you've asked "What do I learn from encountering something I can't defeat". The simple answer is respect for those encounters, and for stealth and planning. Have your thief scout out every area before you go in. If you see an Ogre, do you think level 1 should be able to take an ogre down? Then run away. Using that strategy, you should be able to make it through the lower levels without reloading.
This is what i would like: Game tells you how it works You learn mechanics without extensive out-of-game help Fights are moderate Fights get harder Enemies take better problem solving Enemies require good plan and performance to win an it's quite hard Last boss or dungeon is difficult and satisfying to beat
If we just fundamentally disagree then a guess that's that
1) Manual, in game descriptions, experimentation. There's no hand-holding. 2) Learn by doing. See what works and what doesn't. 3) Depending on your tactics, fights can be either very hard or very easy. People play this on Very Hard with difficulty mods on and do no-reload runs. 4) They do get harder. But you also need to get better. 5) There is better problem solving. There are tactics and you need to disable, resist, dispel and/or debuff enemy mages and monsters. 6) There's exactly that. You need to be prepared and think on the spot. Also some stuff one-hit kills, like spells, if you're not prepared, that's DnD. 7) Sarevok and friends are brutal even if you're prepared and have ton of potions or buffs. He hits like a truck and so do the others. Let's not talk about Irenicus.
This is what i would like: Game tells you how it works You learn mechanics without extensive out-of-game help Fights are moderate Fights get harder Enemies take better problem solving Enemies require good plan and performance to win an it's quite hard Last boss or dungeon is difficult and satisfying to beat
If we just fundamentally disagree then a guess that's that
Part of the problem is that this game is 15 years old. The whole industry has advanced a lot since, and you may be used to newer games, with extensive in game tutorials and whatnot. It was expected players use out-of-game help (manual, DnD knowledge even) in those days. I would recommend Divinity: Original Sin for you, which is a modern game but still difficult and satisfying. Of course, I wouldn't hope you quit this game.
Part of the problem is that this game is 15 years old. The whole industry has advanced a lot since, and you may be used to newer games, with extensive in game tutorials and whatnot. It was expected players use out-of-game help (manual, DnD knowledge even) in those days. I would recommend Divinity: Original Sin for you, which is a modern game but still difficult and satisfying. Of course, I wouldn't hope you quit this game.
I am not sure that it being 15 years old is a "Problem", nor do I agree that the industry has "Advanced". I will admit that games today are different, but not necessarily in a positive way. There is a much heavier focus on graphics and making games 'Easier', or sometimes harder but for easier and more approachable reasons. I see absolutely nothing wrong with there being encounters that can be stumbled across that are unwinnable right out of the box. It gives you a reason to be cautious in your exploration, gives you a sense of progression and a sense of accomplishment once you finally DO defeat those encounters.
@FinneousPJ - LOL. I might have been taking liberties with the interpretation, but when you said "part of the problem" I took that to mean that there was a problem from the game perspective. And when you followed up with "The whole industry has advanced", again this seems to indicate advancement as a positive thing. if I read things wrong, I apologize.
From my perspective, games today could learn a LOT from Baldur's gate and that the "advancement" hasn't been in the right direction.
Vanilla BG is extremely easy IF you know how to play optimally and use metagaming knowledge where to go next and what you will approximately need for enemies in that area.
And yes pretty much the hardest part of the game, apart from some select important fights, is the first few levels because a lucky crit can kill a character. But then again it only costs some gold to resurrect and there are plenty of other characters if you don't want to spend the coin. And money isn't exactly scarce in the BG games.
There are plenty of little tricks to the IE engine combat. These are not spelt out for the player at any point and it's up to you to notice them and use them if you choose to do so (not that it's necessary to beat the game).
And yes pretty much the hardest part of the game, apart from some select important fights, is the first few levels because a lucky crit can kill a character. But then again it only costs some gold to resurrect and there are plenty of other characters if you don't want to spend the coin. And money isn't exactly scarce in the BG games.
Assuming, of course, that it isn't a TPK or even just CHARNAM that gets killed. But then, that's what re-loads are for.
Before learning many tricks of the trade, I died horrendously often in this game. I still die a lot at early levels; sometimes RNG just isn't in your favor. Once you learn the importance of team building and proper item usage with equipment allocation, the game is a fun challenge.
It's my experience that you can minimize the amount of early deaths merely by scouting with a hidden thief. But as @GamingFreak indicates, sometimes random chance will catch up with you. But then you are supposed to be horribly fragile at that level.
Comments
I will say broadly that EE is easier than TuTu was - because every time I installed Tutu the spawns went absolutely insane - 10+ gibberlings all spawning inside of each other and so forth.
Also to whoever said vampire wolves dont exist in the day was totally wrong
http://m.imgur.com/VBtPDL3
And if you want to plan through all the encounters, go to GameFAQs and read walkthroughs of all the battles and how to defeat them.
And a game which is predictable, is boring. You know what comes, what to do and how to deal with it.
The real skill is surviving when the odds are not in your favor.
It looks to me like you want a linear game where you see each challenge coming a mile away so you prepare and deal with it, rinse and repeat.
And that's DnD. In PnP the DM doesn't tell you exactly what you'll face "so better prepare from now".
It's more like: "You walked inside a room and see five orcs, roll for initiative."
It doesn't go: "Alright guys, in the next room, there'll be five orcs, 3 level each and a shaman which is 5 level two of them are archers, the dimensions of the room are 20x20, there are two tables and one of the orcs is sick, the one on the top right corner.
So rest and prepare now."
And since BG is based on DnD, it has that unpredictability of PnP.
And really, what's the point of this thread again? To tell us that BG doesn't tell you everything and hand-holds you while you just do the fighting?
Or that the game should change to suit people's style?
Or that we're wrong for liking it for what it is?
Really, what I read above is: "The game is unpredictable and random, it should be without any surprises and just have hard fights because I cannot adapt or think on the spot."
Not to sound harsh, but that's the nature of the beast. Deal with it, like we did or play another game.
By the way, vampiric wolves are not typical vampires. http://www.lomion.de/cmm/wolfvamp.php
"Unlike a vampire, these wolves can move about in daylight, though they normally choose not to do so. When attacking in daylight, they suffer a -2 penalty."
What I will say is that, if the OP wants to play on a mobile device, that is why the folks at Beamdog worked on mobile device platform. However, if you make that decision, you have to accept that there are certain limitations to a mobile device (i.e. no mods etc...) and therefore voicing the complaint (and I am not saying the OP said this but it can be read that way) "I want to play on a mobile device AND I want the Mods" seems a bit pointless.
Additionally, most of the RPG games that I have ever played had areas that were accessible by low level characters, but you REALLY SHOULDN'T GO. Most places are marked thus, but not all of them. That's the type of game that open ended RPG games normally are. Since this is not to the OP's taste, that again is perfectly fine. But understand that IS the type of game that BG is. Sometimes you get that random encounter that totally spanks you. That's just the nature of the game. Not really worth complaining about. Or if you want to complain, perhaps try a different type of game? Just sayin...
for me, the solution that some "modern" games have taken, i.e. the world levels up with you and you can walk into that Dragon's lair at level 1 because the dragon will only be your level, I think THAT is the height of stupidity. It's a DRAGON. They SHOULD kill level 1 characters. But that is my preference. And when I encounter it in a game like Oblivion, I don't harrange the developers endlessly about it. I let others do that for me (tee hee).. Seriously, if I don't like that type of game, I go play a different type of game.
At the end of the day, we get that the OP was dissatisfied. I think most of their complaints have been beaten to death. Can we move on please?
Actually, I was talking about Baldur's Gate.
I know of Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul but I think it's the other way around.
Instead of knowing what to expect, the enemies have set levels, items and stats so you can be walking into a surprise and challenge. So it's actually more unpredictable.
While vanilla Oblivion is quite predictable because everything is scaling to your level, so nothing is underleveled or overlevelled compared to you.
And yes, Oblivion without Oscuro's or FCOM is awful. It's a lazy boring mess.
Maybe I just grew up on these types of games, but I am hard pressed to think of a game that I liked where you couldn't get totally slaughtered by a random encounter if you weren't EXTREMELY careful. It could be Rad Scorpions in Wasteland or Rats in Sewers in NWN or walking into a room full of Trolls at level 4 in Pool of radiance (gold box), or getting overwhelmed after making a single mistake in ToEE in the Deklo grove. The list goes on.
It is in the nature of these types of games (in my mind) that you HAVE to start out weak, and that means vulnerable. As you gain power, you die less often and start dominating your opponents. That is the nature of the leveling system. That is it's beauty, not a weakness. Sure it is frustrating at times. But it is also rewarding when something that killed you before is now a cake walk.
I've been playing Shadow of Mordor lately and there is this one Urk who kicked my ranger butt every single time I faced him. Long about the time he got promoted to 20th level, I caught up with him and totally killed his face. Seeing the in game cut scene when he begged for his life was so very satisfying. If he hadn't killed me repeatedly prior to that, the scene wouldn't have had that much of an impact "For me". So I like and expect that from a game. If ya don't? Maybe BG isn't your bag. And that's fine as well.
But I hope that the OP actually finds some way to enjoy the game because it is really an amazing game.
I have not seen a good argument as to how this is a good thing. Also It is VERY linear, how was this even brought up?? There is only a single road and small list of fights you can possibly win until level 3 full party. Then the game is moderately hard, them you get good spells and the game breaks and is piss easy.
I would have no problem with random fights if they were STATISTICALLY POSSIBLE to win with good game play. I would have no problem with early random encounters if there was something you could other than watch and see "who hits the other guy 2 times first because everything has 20% chance to hit for 5 damage with 9 health".
This is not exciting or "difficult" it is stupid. It is just re-loading until you successfully rest or travel
Game difficulty as time goes on:
Re-load if you get hit
Re-load if you get attacked while travelling
Re-load if you go the wrong way
Moderate
Easy
Really easy
Kill the whole chess board where they stand with fireballs when they are out of sight, never even engaging
"Awesome i love dnd"
This is what i would like:
Game tells you how it works
You learn mechanics without extensive out-of-game help
Fights are moderate
Fights get harder
Enemies take better problem solving
Enemies require good plan and performance to win an it's quite hard
Last boss or dungeon is difficult and satisfying to beat
If we just fundamentally disagree then a guess that's that
And no doubt, those wth extensive AD&D experience had a big advantage going in.
But yes, the risk of everything heading south in hurry is a huge part of the appeal of getting started. And the balance of D&D has always been, fragile at the start, then increasing power that makes survivability easier, until you become a real force and power in the world. By that end, routine encounters pose little threat. Only a small number of experienced or very dangerous monsters pose any real problems.
If you found every fight at the end easy, congratulations, you're obviously a genius far beyond any of us mere mortals who hang out here. Perhaps you should be playing chess against Deep Blue.
You also talk about random encounters. Did you know that you can run from them? Yeah, it is tough and you can take casualties. But you can merely have your party dart for the nearest 'wall' and run away.
I really think that you are expecting that nothing will be so tough that you can't defeat it out of the gate. And you've asked "What do I learn from encountering something I can't defeat". The simple answer is respect for those encounters, and for stealth and planning. Have your thief scout out every area before you go in. If you see an Ogre, do you think level 1 should be able to take an ogre down? Then run away. Using that strategy, you should be able to make it through the lower levels without reloading.
2) Learn by doing. See what works and what doesn't.
3) Depending on your tactics, fights can be either very hard or very easy. People play this on Very Hard with difficulty mods on and do no-reload runs.
4) They do get harder. But you also need to get better.
5) There is better problem solving. There are tactics and you need to disable, resist, dispel and/or debuff enemy mages and monsters.
6) There's exactly that. You need to be prepared and think on the spot. Also some stuff one-hit kills, like spells, if you're not prepared, that's DnD.
7) Sarevok and friends are brutal even if you're prepared and have ton of potions or buffs. He hits like a truck and so do the others. Let's not talk about Irenicus.
From my perspective, games today could learn a LOT from Baldur's gate and that the "advancement" hasn't been in the right direction.
And yes pretty much the hardest part of the game, apart from some select important fights, is the first few levels because a lucky crit can kill a character. But then again it only costs some gold to resurrect and there are plenty of other characters if you don't want to spend the coin. And money isn't exactly scarce in the BG games.
There are plenty of little tricks to the IE engine combat. These are not spelt out for the player at any point and it's up to you to notice them and use them if you choose to do so (not that it's necessary to beat the game).