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A Frosty Journey: The IWDEE Kitpack

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Comments

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014
    Thanks for the tips.

    In the meantime for additional kits I was thinking of making one for a monk who worships a neutral god. Anyone have any thoughts on who it should be? ( I was thinking maybe a monk that worships Akadi)

    jackjackKenjirufus_hobart
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,200
    Monks of the Weeping Friars would perhaps make the most sense in Icewind Dale, given that they were created by R.A. Salvatore for his Sojourn novel. Only downside would be that these fanatics worship Ilmater and are probably more likely than not of Lawful Good/Lawful Neutral alignment.

    Speaking of Ilmater, he also has a rather interesting (and purely Neutral) cult in his pocket: the Cult of Shared Suffering. As the name suggest, their believe is probably best described as an perfect unison of Ilmater and Loviatar teachings.

    Other official Lawful Neutral monk orders would be;
    - Brothers and Sisters of the Pure Flame (Kossuth)
    - The Old Order (no deity)
    - The Shining Hand (Azuth)

    Also interesting of note is the Hin Fist, being founded by halflings of Yondalla and thus being a shorty only order. It would be really interesting to see non-human monks for a change as well! Though knowing Black Isle, the Monk's racial restriction is probably hardcoded.

    I also did write up a neutral/evil monk kit excluisive for half-orcs once that worships the orcish god of death and diseases Yurtrus. But this kit would also have to face the same hurdle as the Monks of the Hin Fist...

    elminsterJuliusBorisovrufus_hobart
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,404
    elminster, I noticed your "core component" for clerics and paladins talks about changing spell flags and making some spells only available if added in a CLAB. I don't see anything about this in the thread's OP, so if you don't mind, can you talk a bit about what exactly this does?

    From the brief description it seems similar to what DR's sphere system does, making most/all spells unavailable and then assigning them via CLAB effects. It was a nice idea, but it made DR very, very incompatible with other kit mods. (Though Camdawg ended up writing a macro for other mods to use for compatibility.)

    If I install that component, and then install my Scales of Balance cleric kits or DR's cleric kits, will our other mod kits be able to properly get spells?

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014
    "If I install that component, and then install my Scales of Balance cleric kits or DR's cleric kits, will our other mod kits be able to properly get spells?"

    Nope.

    Based on my notes I would say that it is possible (IE very, very likely) that they would be missing

    (spoilered due to space)


    3rd Level

    Animate Dead

    5th Level

    Cure Critical Wounds
    Flame Strike
    Mass Cure Light Wounds
    Raise Dead
    Righteous Magic
    Righteous Wrath of the Faithful
    Slay Living

    6th Level

    Aerial Servant
    Bolt of Glory
    False Dawn
    Heal

    7th level

    Energy Drain
    Finger of Death
    Greater Restoration
    Regeneration
    Resurrection
    Unholy Word


    Paladin kits would also be affected (and same goes for the druid core components and rangers).

    I did however point out this out in the compatibility section of my mods page (though I could certainly explain this better given what I currently have written there).

    I have plans for another 20 non-cleric, non-paladin, non-ranger, non-druid kits, most of which I'm finishing the writing up on now (biographies + descriptions). So while the mod is quite cleric heavy at this stage in the future I expect that DR/Scales of Balance/Kitpack will be semi-compatible with eachother provided people avoid my cleric/paladin/ranger/druid kits.



    Kits I'm planning on including in future patches include.

    Fighter kits

    -Breachgnome (gnome only)
    -Mercenary (halfling only)
    - Savage


    Ranger kits

    -Feralan
    -Giant Killer

    Monk kits

    -Monk of the Weeping Friars (Ilmater)
    -Monk of the Shimmering Wind (Akadi)
    -Disciple of the Phoenix (Kossuth – good aligned)
    -Brothers and Sisters of the Pure Flame (Kossuth – neutral aligned)
    -Disciple of the Salamander (Kossuth – evil aligned)
    -The Shining Hand (Azuth)
    -Order of the Long Death (No deity)
    -Zealots of the Written Word (Denair)
    -Disciple of the Yielding Way (Eldath)
    -Disciple of the Changeless Face (Grumbar)
    -Disciple of the White Rod (Loviatar)
    -Children of the Passive Voice (Oghma)
    -The Old Order (no deity)


    Thief kits

    -Pest Controller (dwarf only)
    -Vermin Slayer (dwarf only)
    - Mouseburgler (gnome only)
    - Scout
    - Tumbler (gnome only)


    Cleric kits

    -Treetender (gnome only)
    -Dreadmaster of Bane
    -Deathstalker of Bhaal
    -Gray One of Myrkul
    -Priest of Labelas Enoreth (elves and half-elves only)

    Druid kits

    -Lost Druid
    -Savage

    At this stage I've written up descriptions and biographies for all the fighter, ranger, and monk kits in this list. As well as the Pest Controller, Vermin Slayer, and Savage (druid).

    Post edited by elminster on
    jackjackKamigoroshi
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,404
    edited November 2014
    elminster said:

    "If I install that component, will other mod kits be able to properly get spells?"

    Nope.

    Ouch. And it's mandatory? Why not split apart the bare kits and the spell stuff? Divine Remix finally split apart its kits and spell spheres after like 8 years, now you're going in the other direction...

    Edit - incidentally I also restrict certain spells from my cleric kits, but I use a different technique. Basically I remove the spells at level up on a kit-by-kit basis. I'd be happy to discuss the method to improve compatibility.

    For that matter, DR has code for other modders to use its spheres; why not hook into that system instead of reinventing the wheel? This a case where it might be great for various modders to adopt a common standard, and it seems like Camdawg has created a skeleton for one. (Just thinking out loud here, don't mean to sound too critical. For some reason incompatibilities between mods bothers me)

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014


    Ouch. And it's mandatory? Why not split apart the bare kits and the spell stuff? Divine Remix finally split apart its kits and spell spheres after like 8 years, now you're going in the other direction...

    Gosh how terrible...

    Having just now tested it the only thing that would happen that I can think of if someone didn't install the Core Components is that my kits (and only my kits) would be unbalanced (as a result of no longer having a good portion of their penalties but getting a bunch of upsides). Thats it. All the cleric, ranger, druid, and paladin kits (that aren't my own) and base classes would behave as normal. Considering however that they are single class clerics who often lack the ability to dual class I'm not too concerned about it.

    Edit: To avoid any confusion for the next patch I will rename Core Components something like "Cleric Kit Penalties" and adjust any mechanical details if needed. Anyone who wants to use the penalties can use them with the understanding that they won't be compatible with other mods. Anyone who wants more compatibility can avoid them (with the understanding that the text will be wrong and the kits will lose most of their downsides).

    Not to downplay my understanding of Weidu here but

    Camdawg = An exceptional modder who clearly has been working with Weidu/the Infinity Engine for many years and knows his stuff.

    elminster = Slightly above "Sweet mother of god I opened the exe file and it worked."

    In other words its been like a week since I posted this and at this stage 57 people have downloaded it. Its also not compatible at the moment with Macs or Linux, further limiting the potential for downloading growth. Icewind Dale has a lot lower profile than Baldur's Gate so I'm not too worried about incompatibility for the moment.
    For that matter, DR has code for other modders to use its spheres; why not hook into that system instead of reinventing the wheel?
    Grognar like wheel! You no like Grognar's wheel? Grognar not happy. :(
    Just thinking out loud here, don't mean to sound too critical.
    I'm certainly willing to clear up the compatibility explanation for my mod in the interim, and if I can "hook in" to DR its something I can do then I will look into in a distant future patch. DR has been out for 9 years, my mod has been out for 1 week. There are also a lot less mods to be worried about when it comes to Icewind Dale compared to BG2 (and DR is intended to be compatible with the original BG2 and all the EE games so that is quite a bit of scope in terms of the mods it could theoretically affect). As I understand it DR also used to implement a sphere system with the intent to do that for all clerics (and cleric spells), not just the spells relevant to the kits it introduces, so its more invasive than my mod (which only semi-does it to the kits I introduce). Lets keep some perspective here.
    For some reason incompatibilities between mods bothers me
    Yea I noticed that. :p

    Post edited by elminster on
    rufus_hobart
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,404
    edited November 2014
    Again, I'm not making demands, just offering feedback. I try to look at it from a player's point of view: a player may like this kit from one mod and that kit from another mod, etc. At the moment your core component is *mandatory* for installation of most of your kits, and it will *affirmatively bork* kits from other mods.

    I think that needs to be very clear up front (though admittedly I may have missed your info page... is there one at SHS?) Otherwise the average player looks at this stuff and says "why would this one cleric kit screw up that totally independent ranger kit?" Or worse, they go to the second mod's forum and complain that it is bugged.

    I'm also just past "holy crap I learned how to copy a file!" - I literally never looked at Weidu before August. I got invaluable help from people around here like Crevsdaak and Grammarsalad etc. So for instance I know of a technique to restrict spells from clerics that won't bork other mods. It's not perfect but it's something you may not have known about. If you don't care that's fine; but if you do, I'm happy to share the stuff I've learned - whenever you get around to it (I also understand that it takes time to get around to updating and improving stuff.

    Edit - incidentally your mod does work on Macs, I just installed it on mine :)
    I'd be happy to make up a Mac-specific installation package for you...

    elminsterSwifty_Magee
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    edited November 2014
    Considering the "kit" makes an appearance in IWD2, I would love to see a "Painbearer of Ilmater" kit for Monks. If only because the desire for a monk to be like a god who not only favored unarmed fighting, but favored peace and healing others while taking the pain unto himself (as well as defending against those who would cause pain) could mean for unique healing and counter-attack/defensive abilities for a monk that serves him.

    elminsterrufus_hobart
  • Swifty_MageeSwifty_Magee Member Posts: 220
    Just installed this mod with Scales of Balance and wanted to post that the reworked weapon proficiency system in SOB doesn't work with the IWDEE Kitpack. Just made a Divinate of Mystra and he lacks any weapon points. I installed IWDEE Kitpack, forgoing the "Cleric Kit Penalties" and "Druid Kit Penalties" components as recommended on the OP. I then installed Scales of Balance. All the kits of the two mods seem to be present, but again...no weapon proficiencies.

    This isn't really a bug or critique post, but more of a heads up to anyone considering to use this in conjunction with Scales of Balance. If anyone wants to use the two mods together, it seems like you may have to edit your characters using EEKeeper to make some aspects work right.

    jackjack
  • kensaikensai Member Posts: 228
    Is it only me or Paladin of Mystra's minor sequencer doesn't work? Sequencer is casted but innate icon for activating doesn't apper.
    If everybody have same mistake I suggest replace this file in override, should work.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014
    kensai said:

    Is it only me or Paladin of Mystra's minor sequencer doesn't work? Sequencer is casted but innate icon for activating doesn't apper.
    If everybody have same mistake I suggest replace this file in override, should work.

    I'll check it out. Thanks.

    Edit: The mod has been updated with a fix for it.

    Post edited by elminster on
    jackjack
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014

    Just installed this mod with Scales of Balance and wanted to post that the reworked weapon proficiency system in SOB doesn't work with the IWDEE Kitpack. Just made a Divinate of Mystra and he lacks any weapon points. I installed IWDEE Kitpack, forgoing the "Cleric Kit Penalties" and "Druid Kit Penalties" components as recommended on the OP. I then installed Scales of Balance. All the kits of the two mods seem to be present, but again...no weapon proficiencies.

    This isn't really a bug or critique post, but more of a heads up to anyone considering to use this in conjunction with Scales of Balance. If anyone wants to use the two mods together, it seems like you may have to edit your characters using EEKeeper to make some aspects work right.

    Looks like you made this exact same post over on the Scales of Balance thread so there is nothing for me to really say (and discussion about it probably is best over on one of its thread since it might be an issue with any kit mod).

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,404
    yup, I doubt that indicates any problem w/ Frosty Journey.

    elminster
  • Swifty_MageeSwifty_Magee Member Posts: 220
    Yeah, it's not a big problem, as the two mods aren't advertised as being compatible. I just thought that both Scales of Balance and the IWDEE Kit Pack are awesome, and if anyone was like me and considered using them both at the same time, they might want the heads up that there may be issues.

    jackjack
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014
    Warning. Priest of Auril's dialogue apparently was screwed up in the last patch. So that kit won't install correctly at the moment. I'm working on a fix.

    Edit: Fixed :)

    KamigoroshijackjackJuliusBorisov
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,394
    First:
    elminster said:

    Camdawg = An exceptional modder who clearly has been working with Weidu/the Infinity Engine for many years and knows his stuff.

    elminster = Slightly above "Sweet mother of god I opened the exe file and it worked."

    Heh.

    Second:
    elminster said:

    I'm certainly willing to clear up the compatibility explanation for my mod in the interim, and if I can "hook in" to DR its something I can do then I will look into in a distant future patch. DR has been out for 9 years, my mod has been out for 1 week. There are also a lot less mods to be worried about when it comes to Icewind Dale compared to BG2 (and DR is intended to be compatible with the original BG2 and all the EE games so that is quite a bit of scope in terms of the mods it could theoretically affect). As I understand it DR also used to implement a sphere system with the intent to do that for all clerics (and cleric spells), not just the spells relevant to the kits it introduces, so its more invasive than my mod (which only semi-does it to the kits I introduce). Lets keep some perspective here.

    One of the goals with DR v8 was to try and make it a little more extensible for other modders, specifically with a whole mess of macros to make it easier. Yes, worry about your stuff first--but you might find compatibility with DR's spheres is a little easier than you might have thought.

    elminsterGrammarsaladJuliusBorisov
  • Lewis244Lewis244 Member Posts: 26
    Looks like an amazing mod, but can anyone direct me as to how to install it? Not exactly sure where to be saving the file when I download it. I've never modded BG or IWD so I have no idea what I'm doing.. hahahaha

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014
    Lewis244 said:

    Looks like an amazing mod, but can anyone direct me as to how to install it? Not exactly sure where to be saving the file when I download it. I've never modded BG or IWD so I have no idea what I'm doing.. hahahaha

    Do you know how to extract from a RAR file? (as in take files and folders found in a rar file and put them somewhere) I'm not trying to be condescending I just don't know your level of computer literacy.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014
    Anyways @Lewis244 you may find this of some help. Its my incomplete readme. For the most part (formatting issues remain) the section on installation should be done. Ignore the compatibility section since apparently its incorrect and keep in mind about 1/2 of the kits mentioned are not yet available.

    jackjack
  • Lewis244Lewis244 Member Posts: 26
    Thanks a million, I've got it figured out now. Looking forward to when all the kits are available! :)

    elminsterjackjack
  • ifupaulineifupauline Member Posts: 405
    Thanks a lot for creating all those kits, you're making my dream come true. Now since I am essentially interested in the priest of Auril atm I have 3 questions/requests

    First I read on many website that an Aurilite is restricted to chain mail and sometimes I even read leather, what do you think about it? Do you think you might implement it? To somehow balance the kit a bit more.

    Second, as you might already know since you added a spell for it, they can use ice dagger, my question is what do you think about allowing an Aurilite to use dagger or at least some of them? I am saying this because there is so much awesome daggers in icewind dale and it would be too bad in my opinion not to be able to use them, particularly

    Fang of the Gloomfrost (that is a dagger made out of ice if I recall) and breath of Auril (no need for explanation)

    And third I read sometimes that they are highly vulnerable to fire (which make sense), do you think an Aurilite could have an innate -50 or -100 to fire damage?

    Voila, I hope that you will considers those ideas in your future release.

    elminsterJuliusBorisov
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited November 2014


    First I read on many website that an Aurilite is restricted to chain mail and sometimes I even read leather, what do you think about it? Do you think you might implement it? To somehow balance the kit a bit more.

    Yea I'm not touching item usabilities. If people want to play the class they are more than free to not use anything more than chainmail with it.

    Edit: I might be able to use an op-code to restrict this. So restricting to a max of chainmail is something I might look into.

    Since cold resistance is pretty common most of the spells the kit is granted aren't even that useful. So I think its balanced enough already.

    Second, as you might already know since you added a spell for it, they can use ice dagger
    Icepriests are a specialty priest that can use bludgeoning weapons and a ceremonial ice axe. No daggers.
    And third I read sometimes that they are highly vulnerable to fire (which make sense), do you think an Aurilite could have an innate -50 or -100 to fire damage?
    Nope. Nothing I've read supported that and also Lysan doesn't have any fire vulnerability.

    Post edited by elminster on
    ifupaulineJuliusBorisov
  • ifupaulineifupauline Member Posts: 405
    edited November 2014
    It seems you are right, there are so many url with different definition, I think this one is the closest to your kit there is not even any armor type restriction. Though Im pretty darn sure a long time ago there was an auril kit when I installed bigworldproject. And it was limited to leather. Anyway it doesn't prevent from role playing it.

    http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Auril.htm

    elminsterJuliusBorisov
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,404
    FYI @Swifty_Magee‌ and any others interested, I couldn't reproduce the incompatibility described above. I just installed everything but the priest penalties from FJ, and installed everything from SoB, and rolled a Divinate of Mystra, and he got all the weapon profs he was supposed to. Make sure your install is clean (uninstall everything in Weidu, then check your override folder for any leftover files and delete them) before starting a new installation of multiple mods! And remember SoB doesn't work well with the "pre-generate character" option - but please bring any discussion of SoB over to its own thread.

    Incidentally, I think these mods go very well together. Tons of kit choices in every class, and everything seems nicely balanced. FJ is looking really good.

    Swifty_Mageeelminsterjackjack
  • Swifty_MageeSwifty_Magee Member Posts: 220
    Thanks for the advice, subtledoctor! I uninstalled/re-installed my mods, cleaned out my "override" folder, and everything is working fine now. And I'll make sure to post in the right threads from now on.

    elminsterjackjack
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,489
    edited November 2014
    Item restriction by opcode May not be a good option. I tried this a long time ago in vanilla bg and items restricted in this way had a different colouring than items restricted via usability flag. It really looked different and stuck out. It is possible that the behavior had changed in ee however

    elminster
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    Ahhhh crap. I wish I knew about that Ilmater monk-kit mod *BEFORE* I made a monk role-playing as a worshiper of Ilmater. Now I have to either just bear with it until another run or pull a Rasaad.

    jackjackelminsterJuliusBorisov
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited December 2014

    Ahhhh crap. I wish I knew about that Ilmater monk-kit mod *BEFORE* I made a monk role-playing as a worshiper of Ilmater. Now I have to either just bear with it until another run or pull a Rasaad.

    Well I did post earlier about kits I plan to include in future patches. I just wanted to get the various monk orders out of the way.

    Kits I'm planning on including in future patches now include.

    Fighter kits

    - Savage


    Ranger kits

    -Feralan (human only)


    Cleric kits

    -Treetender (gnome only)
    -Dreadmaster of Bane
    -Deathstalker of Bhaal
    -Gray One of Myrkul
    -Priest of Labelas Enoreth (elves and half-elves only)

    Druid kits

    -Lost Druid
    -Savage


    No ETA on any of this though.

    Ohh and if anyone has any specific suggestions for where new dialogue would be good for any of the current or future kits feel free to post about them.

    JuliusBorisovSwifty_MageejackjackFandraxx
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,958
    edited January 2015
    Its probably going to be awhile before I get a chance to patch this. Mostly due to real life stuff (along with other work in progress mods). That said I figured I'd post this anyways. Its the current biography for the Feralan kit (this may change).



    "Many years ago, as a child likely around the age of 5 or 6, you fell out of a wagon you were traveling on with your parents. Your parents were probably asleep at the time, and it is likely they didn't notice your absence until quite some time later.

    You have few memories after that. One in particular stands out of you wandering a hillside looking for berries or nuts to eat, however you do remember eventually coming upon a pack of wolves. Sensing your dilemma a particularly astute mother wolf provided you with sustenance and raised you as one of her own. Your connections therefore with the civilized world are limited. Instead, you rely on your connection to those in your wolf clan to assist you when necessary.

    In battle you favour using your own hands, legs, teeth, and agility over any weapon, though you lack the formal training in unarmed fighting that a monk might have. You have learned to make up for this through patience and stealth, learning from your wolf brothers and sisters of the value of striking targets at their weakest points.

    Life amongst wolves has also not entirely robbed you of your humanity. You still inherently have a good spirit about you, even if your formal education is lacking. Many years in isolation from humans has left you unaware of cultural norms and practices. Save for the tattered remains of a shirt and pants that you grew out of long ago you have no possessions that hint of your origins or past, which has only served to worsen your memory. Admittedly, you are reluctant to return to human lands.

    Yet like all wolf cubs it has become your time to leave the pack. Though travelling to human lands is not your ideal destination it has become a necessity. Amongst the lands of Icewind Dale and the Spine of the World humans have begun hunting wolves and animals more frequently these past few years, and you intend to find out why."


    Thought people might be interested.

    Also the mod has apparently been downloaded over 600 times so far. Considering its only been out for a few months (and nobody has responded "elminster this is a terrible mod, never mod again!") I'm pretty happy with that :)

    jackjackifupaulineJuliusBorisov
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