Sorcerer spells in IWD

meagloth

Elminster started a "rate the spells" thread, but that's for all casters. This is just for sorcerers.
I'll shoot first, but I haven't finished the game yet and this is my first playthrough, so go easy on me.

Lvl 1:
Shield/armor, whichever you generally prefer. I don't think they've changed(in comparison to bg)
Chromatic orb- no longer does acid damage, but almost always stuns your opponent early levels.
Burning hands- because chromic orb doesn't do acid damage any more.
Grease. Identify or friends if you don't have a bard.
Magic missile.

Sleep and charm person. They where great in bg, but You will never use sleep, and there are no people to charm. The first half of the game is ALL undead. Mostly skeletons. Ugh.

Lvl 2:
Mirror image.
Glitterdust. It's still great
Web. Now Gimped but still good.
Stinking cloud
Acid arrow

Stinking cloud seemed to work better for me than in bg, especially with web gimped(smaller(18ft) radius, doesn't hold large creatures. Also the animation is ugly)

Lvl 3:
Skull trap, still a solid spell
Slow
melfs minute meteor- throwing daggers are expensive:)
Remove magic... Maybe. I thinks there's like one Mage in this game. But I'm to used to Baldur's gate not to take it.

Lvl 4:
Stoneskin- you can't cast it before resting because the duration is down to 8hrs, but it's still stoneskin.
Spiderspawn- it's still an awesome summon.
DIMENSION DOOR PEOPLE! It's in the game!
I'm kinda running dry now....

Lvl 5:
Um... Cloudkill I guess... I'm only lvl 11 right now.

alastair93

Chromatic orb can now be completely saved against, resulting in no damage at all. :-(

meagloth

alastair93 said:

Chromatic orb can now be completely saved against, resulting in no damage at all. :-(

I find that it usually stunned the victim, and a stunned enemy is better than an Enemy with 5 less hit points, IMO.

Belanos

meagloth said:

Lvl 1:
Shield/armor, whichever you generally prefer. I don't think they've changed(in comparison to bg)

I'd disagree with both of those. They each become obsolete quite quickly, especially Armor. All you need is some half decent Bracers, then you're stuck with a spell that you'll never need again. Shield does have the advantage that it will protect against Magic Missile, but so will Minor Globe of Invulnerability. They're useful in the early part of the game but they don't hold up over time, which is what you need to be looking for with a Sorcerer.

Kenji

For level 5 spells I have Animate Dead and Protection from Normal Weapons.

Those two made my HoF life much easier. The sorcerer and the undead minions can soak up a lot of attacks before the duration runs out.

bob_veng

lvl1 - i agree, but you can skip chromatic orb and take something like spook; and take shield of course, not armor

lvl2 - web can be skipped with the sorc (she'll still have grease, and another caster can cast web). snilloc's snowball is a good cold damage spell against cold vulnerable enemies

lvl3 - lance of disruption is decent, fire arrow is still boss as well...once you climb those levels

lvl4 - that stronger variant of melf's is good and force missiles look so cool (but they uhm...suck for the most of the game)

lvl5 - chaos - no brainer. also sunfire, after you protect your party from fire (not a problem) - even if you don't protect, with dimension door you can use it effectively. cloudkill is still good too.

anyway...lots of good choices. easier to pick than in bg because you don't worry about magic control

meagloth

Belanos said:

meagloth said:

Lvl 1:
Shield/armor, whichever you generally prefer. I don't think they've changed(in comparison to bg)

I'd disagree with both of those. They each become obsolete quite quickly, especially Armor. All you need is some half decent Bracers, then you're stuck with a spell that you'll never need again. Shield does have the advantage that it will protect against Magic Missile, but so will Minor Globe of Invulnerability. They're useful in the early part of the game but they don't hold up over time, which is what you need to be looking for with a Sorcerer.

Well, actually, I would rather give braces to a similarly armor-restricted yet still somewhat Melee oriented char such as a bard or thief, and let shield be cast. Also, would you really pick (minor)globe of invulnerability for a sorcerer? And beside, early levels are when you need an AC boost and protection from MM. They're really not a big deal later when you get Globe of I. and other spells such as stoneskin and mirror image for Melee.

Kenji said:

For level 5 spells I have Animate Dead and Protection from Normal Weapons.

Those two made my HoF life much easier. The sorcerer and the undead minions can soak up a lot of attacks before the duration runs out.

Yeah, I was thinking that, but I've never played this before so I wasn't sure.

Klorox

Just tagging this great thread! :-D

Belanos

meagloth said:

Well, actually, I would rather give braces to a similarly armor-restricted yet still somewhat Melee oriented char such as a bard or thief, and let shield be cast.

Well a thief certainly doesn't need Bracers as they can wear leather armour. I noticed that Studded Leather Armor doesn't have an thieving penalties at all in this game. IIRC, they had a very minor penalty in the BG games. And Bards could certainly use them, but I'm sure there's more than one set available in the game. I feel it would be a mistake to rely strictly on a spell for Sorcerers. All it would take is one stray arrow before you manage to cast Shield to take it out early in the game. And later it will get the Stoneskin spell, which is certainly much better than Shield overall. While Shield is a good spell for casters in 3rd edition games, in 2nd edition it's rather limited IMO. It's a good spell to have for regular Mages, but not all that useful overall for a Sorcerer as far as I'm concerned. One option would be to go with a Dragon Disciple. They get so many AC boosts that a spell like Shield would be unnecessary.

meagloth

Does anyone have suggestions for higher levels? Beta testers maybe?

Abel

Starting in HoF, I picked both Charm and Color Spray at level 1, since they're extremely useful to get past the Goblins. Burning Hands and Grease? Meh...
Agree with @bob_veng on Spook and if you so choose, Shield rather than Armor.

bob_veng

grease is great since the game abounds with free action items. it's a really really useful spell.

Pibaro

Hope and courage are priceless (if you aren't soloing).
Haste is great, but it's better if you cheese it with a dispel magic to avoid the fatigue effect.

Lord_Tansheron

I swear, Haste fatigue is going to be the first thing I mod out.

bob_veng

@Pibaro yeah those spells are insane. i leave them for my backup mage to cast however.

anyway on-topic

lvl 5 - chaos, sunfire, cloudkill + maybe domination.
lvl 6 - improved haste. disintegrate (you can put it in a spell trigger). not much else. chain lightning?
lvl 7 - pw stun obviously. some djinn summon maybe. finger of death is worse than disintegrate
lvl 8 - horrid wilting, symbol stun, power word blind, spell trigger - a tremendously powerful level
lvl 9 - /// don't know yet ///

@Lord_Tansheron‌
just use improved haste

Zyzzogeton

From a HoF point of view.

Assuming the Sorc is the only Arcane Caster (other than a Bard/Skald which will be primarily singing and a Fighter/Mage who will be attacking most of the time) also the party might have a Divine caster.

Also spells per level are not arranged in any order.

1

Burning Hands
Grease
Chromatic Orb
Spook
Magic Missile

2

Web
Strength
Glitterdust
Snilloc's Snowball Storm
Melf's Acid Arrow or Mirror Image (never really found it useful)

3

Slow
Skull Trap
Remove Magic
Invisibility 10' Radius since lots of areas start you off against a horde of monsters in sight
Flame Arrow or Melf's Minute Meteors (if there's no Divine caster, take Monster Summoning I and it should be a priority)

4

Emotion Courage
Emotion Hope
Greater Malison
Spider Spawn
Mordenkainen's Force Missiles or Stone Skin (kinda like Mirror Image) or Improved Invisibility

5

Chaos
Lower Resistance
Animate Dead (if no Divine caster or maybe even with one. Prayer is a fairly decent buff anyway)
Breach
Cloudkill

6

Contingency
Improved Haste
Mislead
2 from Disintigrate or Death Fog or True Sight (maybe not needed with a Thief)

7

Mass Invisibility, yes this makes Invisibility 10' Radius useless, but it's a long trek from having level 3 spells to having level 7 spells
Project Image
Ruby Ray of Reversal
Spell Sequencer

8

Horrid Wilting
Simulacrum
Any two

9

Chain Contingency
Time Stop
Wail of Banshee
Gate

Belanos

bob_veng said:

grease is great since the game abounds with free action items. it's a really really useful spell.

I agree. Grease is a spell that can always come in handy, no matter what level creatures you're fighting. My choice for first level Sorcerer spells would be that and Magic Missile. That's a very versatile spell as well that gets more powerful over time, and it has the advantage of never missing it's target. It's also fairly quick, which makes it a good spell to use against another caster. Provided they don't have a protection spell like Minor Globe of Invulnerability.

Klorox

I really like taking Friends on level 1. It's useful throughout the game, and it's easy to make the sorcerer the #1 character when buying stuff.

IIRC, equipment is expensive and you're not really rolling in the good until late in this game.

Plus, it's not like level 1 spells are all that useful anyway.

JLee

I've never really used teleport field that much, but this game is making me curious to try it out.

This is my first playthrough, but it seems the game enjoys plopping you in front of a bajillion foes when entering a new zone. Any thoughts from veterans on this spell? I love the no-save aspect.

Sed

I found Lance of Disruption extremely useful against undead, especially at the burial isle.
Did a ton of damage

Zanian

Yeah, Lance of Disruption is hella fun for a lvl 3 spell. I was just at the severed hand and walked out onto the bridge. I knew there would be a bunch of enemies on it, so I just cast it right there.
That 100 range meant everything just died instantly. xD

I think my favorite spell is Web. I currently have 4 melees with Free Action, and enemies seem to have terrible saves. It trivializes most fights with a single cast.

Those 2, along with the classics like chromatic orb, magic missiles, stoneskin and mirror images, with the occasional skull trap here and there, pretty much make up all that my sorcerer does.

Emeus

Feeblemind, works on undead as well in IWDEE, most like an instant kill spell with -2 penalty.

lunar

Emotion:courage and Emotion:hope is a winning combo for a fighting party, it gives great bonuses like +5 to damage for everyone, among other things. Add haste and any semi-component fighter can rip through enemies with little problem.

meagloth

lunar said:

Emotion:courage and Emotion:hope is a winning combo for a fighting party, it gives great bonuses like +5 to damage for everyone, among other things. Add haste and any semi-component fighter can rip through enemies with little problem.

@lunar‌ do you think that's worth it? In bg sorcerers tend to stay away from party buffs like haste because they're only used once or twice a day; enough for a secondary to handle.

Aristillius

@meagloth yeah, but the reason it is used sparingly is the exhaustion associated with it.
Also, I agree that shield is a good spell throughout the game, considering the alternatived there is no reason to not take it (good to have one in the early levls) Exception is if you need charm or identify (no bard).

lunar

meagloth said:

lunar said:

Emotion:courage and Emotion:hope is a winning combo for a fighting party, it gives great bonuses like +5 to damage for everyone, among other things. Add haste and any semi-component fighter can rip through enemies with little problem.

@lunar‌ do you think that's worth it? In bg sorcerers tend to stay away from party buffs like haste because they're only used once or twice a day; enough for a secondary to handle.

I think they are worth it, however a support caster like bard can cast them once per rest and it may be enough. The only really essential spell is stoneskin from lvl 4, the rest is up to choice and tactics enjoyed by the player. A sorcerer can become a serious party buffer with emotion spells, he lacks this versatility in bg2 for this level. Or he can spam vitriolic sphere or shout spells. Your choice. Since hack and slash combat is a big portion of the game, emotion spells help tremendously.

Abel

Stinking Cloud not a great choice because it's a Sleep effect.
It doesn't affect Undead because of their immunity. And Free Action doesn't protect against it.

Zyzzogeton

Sleep doesn't wear off after damage. Stinking Cloud's version of Sleep lasts for 1 round then another Saving Throw is made.

So yes Stinking Cloud is essentially Web except less exploitable.

Abel

You're actually half-right. In some cases (like Command), the Sleep effect wears off on hit. But in the case of Stinking Cloud, it doesn't. I guess that's logical given the nature of the spell.
Anyway, it still doesn't compare to Web for the reasons I mentioned.
But, since there's no so many useful spells for Sorcerers on that level, I guess that's an option.

Lord_Tansheron

How big are the respective areas covered by Web/SCloud? Seems to me Cloud is bigger, but it could just be my imagination. A bit hard to tell with the fuzzy borders on the animation.

Zyzzogeton

Text