[Help me] Powergaming Party
Krudar
Member Posts: 95
Help me pls
-Inquisitor (Best Paladin Kit, best mode for kill mage)
**Sword&Shield
**Long Sword
Then
**Mace
Cleric/Ranger (All druid and cleric spells)
**Flail
**Sling
**Dual Weapons
Then
**Warhammer
-Illusionist/Thief (Gnome nice Saving Throw, complete the sorcerer)
*Crossbow
*Quarterstaff
-Disciple of Dragoon (Best mage option)
*Dart
Then
*Dagger
Remains 2 Character, pls help to complete this party
-Inquisitor (Best Paladin Kit, best mode for kill mage)
**Sword&Shield
**Long Sword
Then
**Mace
Cleric/Ranger (All druid and cleric spells)
**Flail
**Sling
**Dual Weapons
Then
**Warhammer
-Illusionist/Thief (Gnome nice Saving Throw, complete the sorcerer)
*Crossbow
*Quarterstaff
-Disciple of Dragoon (Best mage option)
*Dart
Then
*Dagger
Remains 2 Character, pls help to complete this party
0
Comments
There you go :P
For the Dragon Disciple you might want to go for slings at first, since it'll be a very long while before you find a returning dagger/dart.
The Cleric/Ranger Manveru already explained. You could still use it, but it would be very gimped.
For the last 2, I'd go for a Dwarven Defender (Get the right equipment, and he can get to 100% physical immunity when buffed with the stance, 50%+ unbuffed), and against IWD's hordes of melee enemies, he'll be the most valuable member in your party.
Lastly, a vanilla Bard for constant healing at lvl 11.
If you can manage without healing in the first portion of the game, go ahead and make your cleric dual from fighter first. You could possibly even get a druid instead, if you want.
This would be very close to what I'm playing with at the moment, and even at insane difficulty, it's been more or less a breeze.
As @Manveru123 said, Inquisitors aren't as good here as they are in BG2, because there isn't a lot of buffs to dispel and hardly any invisible creatures at all. If you want to go with a Paladin, I would say Undead Hunter or Blackguard are the best choices.
Dragon Disciple might just be worse than a regular Sorcerer, I never really liked the breath weapon thing and the other bonuses are almost irrelevant.
Cleric/Ranger, as mentioned, does not by default allow all Druid/Cleric spells the way it does in BG, but rather give you the Druid spells only once the Ranger level is high enough (which can take a while). You can change this in the .ini file if you like, but I'm not in love with the Druid spells anyway and I'd hate to lose Grandmastery by not going fighter wherever possible :P (remember, GM in IWD adds a total of 3/2 APR!).
As for powergaming, once I get through my first HoF run I'll put together a dedicated powergaming thread, much like the one for BG2.
From my preliminary data so far, for HoF at least you do NOT want a pure caster. Even regular enemies easily have 200+ HP, spell damage isn't going to make a dent and you really need the proper numbers if you plan on defeating a 20-mob pack. That being said, spells do have their use, particularly for buffing and CC.
My own setup is Fighter/Cleric, Fighter/Thief, Fighter/Mage, and Archer. I'm not if and how dual-classing could be an option, HoF is quite unforgiving. So far I've noticed that the Cleric buff spells make a big difference and are quite good, while the Mage has some decent CC/debuff options (Glitterdust, Hold Person/Undead, Confusion, etc.) but nothing spectacular (yet). I'm about halfway through the game (just past Hand) and I'm only now getting into proper high levels so things may still change.
Tank
Tank
Fighter/Cleric
Thief/Fighter
Fighter/Mage
I have some question
1-Is paladin good choice without Carsomyr and good mage like BG2? And is better Undead Hunter or Cavalier?
2-Can bard be a good support mage? or he is only pick for song and can be skippable?
With ur help i change some character
-Sorcerer Vanilla kit
*Sling
Dwarven Defender
**Warhammer
**S&S
Bard
*Crossbow
*2H Weapon
This 3 Character are ok?
And for the other slot? Suggestion?
Bard is awesome in IWDEE especially with new songs. Running one as my only mage early game until I dual into my main mage. Identifier and pickpocketer. Maxxed Dex and Int so for first half he's main archer (crossbow) and mage, later when other characters are Dualed out he is the support archer & mage & healer.
About paladins, while Cavalier has a +3 bonus vs dragons and demons, which are bosses in game, Undead Hunter is better because there are many undead in the game.
About powergaming party I prefer something like this
F\M
F\M
F\C
F\D
Sorc
but in my current play my party is much weaker in powergaming point.
Some advice.
Berserker dualled to mage.
As always this is very powahhh. You combine a great damage dealer with a great special ability with all the mage buffs like stoneskin, mirror image and everything else. When you'll be able to cast time stop, no one is going to beat you.
Sorcerer.
In IWD there are few spells? No problem, here you are the solution. A sorcerer. Buff your party with hope and courage, haste everybody (but remember to dispel magic just before the effect ends, or your party will be tired), slow your enemies, and nobody will ever be a threat.
Build a full neutral-good party to gain max advantage from Righteous Wrath of the Faithful.
The +3 vs Dragons & Demons is bigger than the +3 on undead with a priest in party or both a priest and Pally. No priest, maybe it's more viable. But who's running without some sort of priest anyway?
Undead to Cav, how many times are you going to face level drain and hold compared to charm, fear, morale fail, and poison? I cant remember ever getting level drained in vanilla IWD. Then add resistances to fire & acid & a daily remove fear cast... I'd rather run a Blackguard over Undead Hunter all things considered.
The only (maybe) exception can be, imo, dwarven defender and sorcerer since iwd looks a bit low on spells so it's unlikely that you will run with the 2/3 kensage like in bg2. Also thief has no UAI so it's kinda me after you capped disarm traps.
It's hard to say how to run, but good calls can be:
Bers/cleric
Kensa/druid or Bers/druid
Kensa mage
This 3 imo are quite optimal in any run, than it's up to you.
Pallies: are that powerfull? Weapon aside, this is NOT bg2 and you will not need inquisitor or carsomyr, even if the weapon will be strong is it better then a grandmastery optimized caster?
Bard: I'm a bard specialist myself, so I usually give it a try, but without simulacrum cheese helm just sitting one toon afk the whole time (or micro manage like a madman) looks a bit meh. At least he can help untill the dual classed mage recover his or her lvls
Thief: I think that I can dual it pretty early, couz they do nothing in this game aside from traps and dualing INTO a fighter is always painfull exp wise.
Then, for pure kit I would consider Dwarven defender and archer. The 1st looks quite solid since so many enemies are useless phisical damage dealers, it's the 1st time that I'm thinking to run a true fighter myself :P
Also archer looks always amazing, ranged weapon are so strong untill 1m exp usually, and this is no exception!
For My 1st HoF run I'm considering:
Bers9/cleric
Ken9/dudu
Ken9/mage
Assa7/fighter (ranged toon most of the time)
Archer
Trueclass afk bard :v
A 5-12 one handed, speed 1, +4/+7 vs evil, THAC0 +4/+7 vs evil is pretty powerful even on only specialization tics. On an Undead Hunter it'd be brutal but that there basically turns any Pally into a stock Undead Hunter itself.
How can with a party
Cleric liv 1
Dudu liv 1
Mage liv 1
2 ranged and bard
?
The time first the return to first class is horrible with 3 dualclass that change class to equal level
I also noticed that there is quite a lot of +APR around; so much, in fact, that I'm seriously contemplating a Swashbuckler instead of a F/T or F->T. Usually I don't like losing GM, but there's even a RING with +1 APR... with that and two +APR weapons you can get a Swashbuckler to max base APR, and at high levels their damage/thac0 bonus is quite crazy... Something to consider, once I figure out the routes to the items.
Sure the Swashbuckler ends up better but by then the game's already or nearly over.
My party is:
Human Cavalier
Human Fighter 7 dual classed to cleric
Half Elven Fighter/Druid
Elven Sorcerer
Halfling Fighter/Thief
Human Shadow dancer 10 dual classed to mage
My experiences:
Paladins don't belong in a power gaming party. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed taking mine along, but it isn't a powergaming choice, and I knew this going in. When you choose between paladins, you are basically choosing between bonuses against certain types of creatures and immunity against certain status effects. But, if you took a Fighter and dual classed him to a cleric, you would be able to get grand mastery, which is better than the bonuses you get as a paladin, PLUS it applies to all monsters, not just some. The immunities you can get via spells or potions, or the Berserker's rage ability. So, as much as I love my Pally, he is just not powergaming material.
The sword? Sure, it's good, but you get it so late. Would you rather have a character who dominates 75% of the game, or a character who dominates 25% of the game? And, there are other very good weapons for fighter/clerics to use. We don't even know exactly what has been added.
Generally my preference would be this:
Dual class -> Multi Class -> Single Class
In other words, dual class is the best, followed by multi class, followed by single class. Take a multi class or single class only if you have no choice, or if you need the class abilities early. For instance, I would still recommend taking a multi class fighter/druid over a dual class fighter druid. This is only because you need access to healing spells early in the game, which a dual classed fighter druid won't get until much later.
So, that being said, this would be my current pick for a powergaming party:
Berserker 7 dual classed to Cleric
Kensai 9 dual classed to Mage
Half elven Fighter/Druid (as I said, early access to healing spells)
Elven Sorcerer (Not Dragon Disciple - the penalties are too severe and the bonuses unnecesary. I only take a sorcerer because of the scarcity of scrolls)
Halfling or Dwarf Fighter/Thief (Multiclass because we need access to thieving skills early, not dual class to limit our exposure to the problem of having 3 characters dualling at the same time)
Elven Cleric/Mage
Every character except one is a spellcaster, and 4 of the 6 characters are warriors.
On another note, the Shadow Dancer 10 -> Mage build I'm currently using is very fun. He can become invisible at will, which allows me to backstab, kill a mage, fire off a spell, and then disappear. If I really want to, I can just shadow step for a get out of jail free card. He has two uses of it. Plus, he is now less than one level behind my pure class sorcerer. The only reason the sorcerer is there and not him is that the sorcerer does not have to worry about scrolls. But, that being said, I have not emptied every shop, so it probably would be possible to play without a sorcerer and use this character instead. He is more useful in general, while the sorcerer is only used for blasting.
We know exactly what has been added, and the weapons available to a Paladin outclass those available to a Fighter/Cleric - although both do have very good options.
That said, due to the weird level/XP caps in IWD, multiclass are the powergaming choice. Indeed the optimal party consists solely of FMCs & FMTs...
1) what about a Bard? These songs, especially War Chant of the Sith are so damn good.
2) how do you choose to allocate your proficiencies?
3) is the "downtime" tough, after you've switched classes but have not reactivated those Fighter levels?
4) how does that Cleric/Mage fit into the party, when you already have a Berserker>Cleric and a Kensai>Mage? It just seems like a waste when you could just have another tank in there.
5) where does this shadow dancer> mage fit in? I'm confused.
6) how would a thief > Mage fare in this game? Think Imoen with better stats. All I care about with a thief is dealing with locks and traps.
Thanks!!
2. Two handed weapons generally aren't that good in IWD, I don't think. It looks like the majority of them do 1d10 damage, plus unlike IWD2, you don't get a 1.5x strength bonus to damage. So, for any dual classed fighter, pick one weapon and stick to it. I've gone with maces for my dual classed fighter-> cleric, happy with them so far. I think morning stars would have also been a good choice. Long swords for a Fighter-> Thief. For multi classed characters, because you can never put more than two pips into a weapon, you have more flexibility. I don't know enough about the available weapons in IWD to give more advice though.
3. No, not really. Remember, by the time you dual class, you are at the stage where experience is coming a lot faster, so the downtime is not that long. Of course, the later you dual class, the longer that downtime is. That is also why I would not recommend dual classing two many characters at the same time.
4. Because you already have 4 tanks. Those, to me, are the most important characters. You have your thieving abilities covered, divine and arcane spellcasting, and 4 tanks. So, the last two characters just need to support those 4 characters. I avoid having too many tanks, because of the narrow spaces you fight in. They tend to start tripping over each other. So, because this character is a backline character, he or she needs to be a spellcaster. A Mage/Cleric provides immediate access to both types of spellcasting early on. Plus, not being dual classed means she never suffers downtime. Late game, she will not be as useful as the dual classed spellcasters. This is difficult to avoid. Other options would be a Fighter 7 -> Mage using bows with grandmastery. Lots of good longbows, few good shortbows.
5. It doesn't necessarily. It is just an option. I enjoy playing with mine. It is there just as an option for people who want to try something a little different.
6. Could work well. I think if you are going to dual class a thief, focus on one set of thieving skills. With my Shadow Dancer 10-> Mage, I focused on stealth skills. I didn't put a single point into trap disarming or lock picking. So yeah, a thief who focuses on lock picking and trap disarming would do fine. However, bear in mind the downtime. There are traps in almost every dungeon. Only issue with the idea. Late game, you basically get the thief skills for free, because the experience difference is negligible. The spell casting of rangers and paladins is so bad to not even be worth considering. No bonus spells from wisdom, max level 4 spells. Dual class a ranger to a cleric if you insist on taking a ranger. Pity that paladins cannot dual class!
I actually think the first part of the game is harder. I had much more trouble in the beginning than I do now. Now that my spell casters are up to the right levels, I have access to insanely powerful buffs that makes me steamroll the game. The last couple of bosses that I have fought have all been cakewalks. Once you get over the dual class hump, everything gets a lot easier.
@Klorox - back to your dual classing down time question. The part of the game where I only had fighters was more difficult than when my characters were in downtime, because they were starting to get spell casting ability.
The beginning/early game has the least differences between a Fighter and a Paladin.
1. Cavalier - the strongest Paladin kit in my opinion for IWD, as Inquisitors (1. Playthrough) are nearly useless, the loosing of ranged options is no concern for me and the immunities are worth a fortune, not to mention the very helpful remove fear (practically an immunity of fear for the complete party) once per level. Bonuses against the bosses (dragons and demons) are in my opinion more important than against undead (no vampires and the so called liches in IWD are kittens, nothing compared to Shangalar or Kangaxx). Didn't suffer a single level drain.
I haven't tried Blackguard though, but I keep my party good or neutral aligned, as some spells like Holy Smite and Wall of Moonlight affect evil Party members.
2. Berserker 9 - Cleric, good aligned, GM in Morningstars, dual wielding Maces/Morningstars, will use Three White Doves
3. Dual Fighter 9 - Mage, GM in Long Bows, before most enemies can reach you, this one will kill them with arrows and spells. Used in second playthrough, and she is extremly effective. Must not use kit, because you cannot achieve GM in Bows with Kensai and Berserker and Wizard Slayer no comment.
4. Berserker 7 - Druid Highmastery in Scimitars (not really important - can also go Club or Dagger), strong spellpower and fighting prowess (could go a second cleric as well, would be a little more defensive, tanking)
5. Halfling F/T if you go hard, Halfelf F/M/T on insane as the XP gain will give you enough levels on insane.
Go Long Bows/Crossbows and Longswords
6. Gnome F/Illusionist, lots of spells and fighting power, looses Necromancy and Abjuration, but that is not a big hindrance, can use the Helm of the Trusted Defender (AC+3). One of the strongest endgame chars, almost untouchable, I used one on my second playghtrough
With this party you have 5-6 Spellcasters (2-3 arcane, 3 divine) and at least 4 tanks, 2-3 archers, one thief to disarm, open and pickpocket.
Identifying can be done by the mages with spells.
The time you reach Lower Dorn's Deep on insane (without touching HoW) the game will get very boring, just buff up to the max and roll over your enemies.
Sure, Cavaliers are immune to Fear and Poison, but those have never been a problem for me. I think I've come across one or two battles where fear and/or poison played an issue. For poison, you can take antidotes anyway. Hold person is a much, much bigger problem. Undead cause hold person, but so do clerics. I found my characters subject to hold person much more often than they were poisoned or feared.
Poison and Fear are a bigger issue in ToL where you fight Wyverns and Harpies ...
And I do not want to miss Lay on Hands ... a instant powerful healing spell.
Haven't got there yet, so I'll see what that is like. But there is a second level wizard spell which is insta cast and dispels fear, and protects against it. You can just cast it before the battle. Plus there are easy to obtain items which protect against fear.
Protection from poison - depends on how bad the poison is!
The one thing that I will miss about paladins is lay on hands. It is very useful to have insta cast healing on the battlefield, pity you only get one use per day. I find it more useful than smite evil. Smite evil never really seems to do enough damage - not even sure it is improving per level like it is supposed to.
For powergaming, if you must have a paladin, like others have suggested, pick either Undead Hunter or Blackguard. The former has hold immunities and attack bonuses against the undead while the latter has a no-save poison that is useful against Bosses and Aura of Despair that can help against a swarm of enemies.
The only time when I would pick paladins over fighters is because of Pale Justice. Not to mention due to limits on weapon specialization, paladins actually get to use more different types of weapons than most fighters who achieve grandmastery. (It's kind of helpful)
We can always compare a Paladin wielding Pale Justice with Weapon Specialization in Longsword to a Fighter wielding a +4 Longsword with Grand Mastery in Longsword
Weapon Specialization:
+1 to hit, +2 dmg, extra 1/2 attack/round
Grand Mastery:
+3 to hit, +5 dmg, extra 1 attack/round
Pale Justice is a +7 THAC0/dmg vs. Evil creatures (That applies to most monsters and bosses). It's safe to say that by having a paladin you are trading off half an attack per round for an extra THAC0 and no damage difference.
Technically Fighter is still the better choice but consider Paladins are now almost as proficient at melee as fighters with the ability to use up to level4 cleric spells. With all those cleric buffs Paladins will definitely trump fighters in terms of raw power and party utility.
I'm not sure about the THAC0 progression difference in between Paladins and Fighters, if someone cane clarify that, I'd be most grateful.