@Paheej re-do voiceset? Not possible. re-do stats? Not possible. re-do class? Not possible. re-do? bioghraphy? Not advised. Khalid's low self-esteem wouldn't developed from nothing.
Oh, why those things are impossible? I recommend you to read "LIST OF THINGS THAT CAN'T BE DONE" in "Feature request" section. You can only hope modders will do something about him, but since you hate him, I doubt you even care.
@Paheej re-do voiceset? Not possible. re-do stats? Not possible. re-do class? Not possible. re-do? bioghraphy? Not advised. Khalid's low self-esteem wouldn't developed from nothing.
Oh, why those things are impossible? I recommend you to read "LIST OF THINGS THAT CAN'T BE DONE" in "Feature request" section. You can only hope modders will do something about him, but since you hate him, I doubt you even care.
Hey bro, I'm pretty sure all the modding tools are free. Just because a developer can't do it because of contractual obligations doesn't mean that someone else can't make a mod.
I've read the feature request section. If a game doesn't have something you mod it. Some of us have been doing this with games for over a decade.
Also I know Kag is in the vanilla game. He just doesn't have jack for background in vanilla.
xzar, shar-teel, edvin, viconia, tiax take too much space from my party to make room for stuttering coward and i play evil mostly. he is good for nashkel mines for trap detection early on but other than that no point in keeping him
He's actually one of the best npc tanks in the game
I agree. By the end of the game when comparing stats, he's one of the best tanks with High Master Proficiency.
- He has the second highest hit points of all the NPCs after Kagain (120) with 102 hit points. Ajantis has 92, Minsc has 85, Imoen has 80, Shar-Teel has 77, Kivan has 76, Coran has 62.
- He has one of the best THAC0s with High Mastery in Long Swords compared to the other NPCs.
- He has better AC (DEX) than Ajantis, Kagain and Minsc.
The only fault with Khalid I've found is his STR (15) and this can be overcome with the Ogre Braces. Once you give those to him, then he's a better tank than Ajantis, Kagain and Minsc.
It's a similar situation with Kagain (Str 16). Kagain is too weak to be a tank and has poor AC and needs the Ogre Braces as well. But even if you give Kagain the Ogre Braces, his AC is worse than Khalid.
With Minsc, you would normally give him the DEX braces to boost his DEX, but you can't do anything with his hit points. However, Khalid with the Ogre Braces is still a better tank with more STR and hit points.
Shar-Teel and Kivan have less hit points than Imoen! So even though they have good STR and DEX, they're quite squishy. And it's seems like a waste to give them the DEX braces for such a small increase (+1) in their stats. Give them the Ogre Braces? They already have 18/?? STR.
Coran? Equip him with the Ogre Braces and he's great. One problem though, Khalid has nearly double the hit points of him.
Overall, Khalid only has one stat (STR) that isn't great and easily overcome by one item in the game - Ogre Braces, which then makes him one of the best tanks in the game.
He's the best archer in the game with decent health easily. He can actually put 5* on bows unlike Kivan, Coran, Minsc and unlike Shar-Teel he has a good constitution... unlike Kagain his Dexterity doesn't suck like crazy and he never really complains... Well, except when I excruciatingly eliminate Jaheira in the worst possible way of course.
He's not bad, but people tend to underestimate him. If he was a fighter/mage, he'd probably be one of the favorite NPCs in the game.
For many of the reason people above have put his shortcomings in stats can easily be overcome making him the best tank in the game. Plus I've never really had any morale issues with him. Is this a confirmed shortcoming of his or is it just skewed perceptions by those who hate him?
Metal_Hurlant is right in everything he said. Plus people forget one simple thing: the role of a tank is to be a meat-shield soaking damage and keeping attention away from the more fragile dpsers, not to have the highest dps + number of kills, so his less-than-perfect Str shouldn't matter this much. Khalid's high Con and weapon proficiencies allow him to tank just fine from the get-go. Only issue would be his higher than normal moral failure threshold but even this can be overcome and is not that frequent anyway.
I think that lots of the characters have quirks, some of which resonate with people and others annoy them. I find Imoen to be horribly annoying, but wouldn't think of playing without her in my party.
Khalid - it's mostly the low morale and being forced to take Khalid/Jaheira as a pair. I hate Dynaheir for the same reason - both are not very impressive and I don't 'want' them in my party. I want Minsc and Jaheira, so this eats up four of the mere five slots I'm allowed.
I tolerate Khalid for the game, sometimes through gritted teeth. My kids think he's lamer than lame, too! And, if they need gauntlets of ogre power to be viable (not improved, but viable), then they're not right for the given class.
I have heard people make him an archer and have some success. While that would work, the extra dex point (and better character ambiance) of Kivan wins here.
I'm not surprised that Khalid keeps up with Minsc in the Nashkel mines. Kobolds don't generally make him run away in fear and shields have a lot of advantages over 2H weapons.
Why do I hate Khalid? Well, the first thing he ever said to me, for no apparent reason, was "your muh... muh... mother is a fat ugly ha.. ha... hag." Why wouldn't I hate him?
Seriously though, Khalid's stats are not particularly good. At best they are C+. 15 strength as a melee fighter is nothing to brag about since it affects melee thac0, melee damage and carry weight, and given that he is a front line fighter he should be wearing a lot of heavy equipment, so he has little weight capacity left to carry loot, which is the second job of big strong fighters.
The strength can be remedied by the Gauntlets of Ogre power of course, but they appear so late in the game that I just don't bother with him, I might take Jaheira and send Khalid on a nude basilisk hunting expedition, but most of the time I don't bother with either of them.
Metal_Hurlant is right in everything he said. Plus people forget one simple thing: the role of a tank is to be a meat-shield soaking damage and keeping attention away from the more fragile dpsers, not to have the highest dps + number of kills, so his less-than-perfect Str shouldn't matter this much. Khalid's high Con and weapon proficiencies allow him to tank just fine from the get-go. Only issue would be his higher than normal moral failure threshold but even this can be overcome and is not that frequent anyway.
Here's the issue, though. IMO IE games in general and BG in particular don't revolve around your typical Tank/DPS/Healer combination. In BG, you would typically expect your tank to also be doing some major damage. You wouldn't ever really look for a character to fulfil just one role.
And that's really where Khalid falls short, IMO. Are his fighting skills terrible compared to other NPCs? No, and has been pointed out, he could even be a bit better than most. But the thing is, he brings nothing else to the table. Minsc can Berserk, which makes him immune to the most devastating Mage spells. Also, he can eventually cast Armor of Faith (which might take a while, but people are talking about Khalid getting GM, so why not) which makes him far better at soaking up damage. You could even have him start Blessing the party. Not to mention the fact that pre-BG2, Rangers are the only class that can dual-wield. Subtract the Berserk and you've got the same bonuses for Kivan. In fact, unlike Minsc, Kivan as an archer is well-suited to take advantage of the Ranger's Stealth ability.
Then there's Ajantis, a Paladin. Again, he eventually gets to cast Armor of Faith. Also, his Paladin abilities include Lay on Hands, which is a good healing spell in a pinch, and Protection from Evil, which confers a whopping -2 enemy attack rolls and +2 to Saving Throws against evil opponents (which is almost all of them).
Heck, Coran is a comparable fighter to Khalid, and he's got an entire second class on the side.
The issue is that in BG, if you're going to be a fighter, you need godlike stats, because you haven't got anything else. Despite his other crappy stats, Kagain's 20 CON combined with his Dwarvern saving throws falls into that category. Khalid? Not quite.
Compared to the others listed above, Khalid ranks in as a more-or-less-as-good fighter with a lot less versatility and potential.
I will say this, though: I'd take him over Shar-Teel
Not to mention the fact that pre-BG2, Rangers are the only class that can dual-wield.
Erm. No. Until BG2, noone can dual-wield. Unless you're talking P&P rules in which case I wouldn't know, there's no game mechanics for it at least, nor equipment slots. Try as much as you like, but plopping a second weapon onto the shield slot will just give you "Wrong Equipment Type" or somesuch error message.
Not to mention the fact that pre-BG2, Rangers are the only class that can dual-wield.
Erm. No. Until BG2, noone can dual-wield. Unless you're talking P&P rules in which case I wouldn't know, there's no game mechanics for it at least, nor equipment slots. Try as much as you like, but plopping a second weapon onto the shield slot will just give you "Wrong Equipment Type" or somesuch error message.
I think he meant that ranger have starting bonus in dual wield, making them the only viable dual wielder in BG1, whereas Khalid won't obtain GM if he does.
Not to mention the fact that pre-BG2, Rangers are the only class that can dual-wield.
Erm. No. Until BG2, noone can dual-wield. Unless you're talking P&P rules in which case I wouldn't know, there's no game mechanics for it at least, nor equipment slots. Try as much as you like, but plopping a second weapon onto the shield slot will just give you "Wrong Equipment Type" or somesuch error message.
I'm not sure if BG1 works the same way as IWD, but in IWD if a ranger only carried a one-handed sword and no shield he/she is effectively dual wielding. They gain an extra attack per round, there's just no animation showing it.
I think he meant that ranger have starting bonus in dual wield, making them the only viable dual wielder in BG1, whereas Khalid won't obtain GM if he does.
MilesBeyond makes a good point: Tank and DPS are almost the same thing in BG1. Amazing how the concepts of tank, DPS and support now define the gameplay mechanics of almost every RPG.
This thread has been great so far....I'm beginning to think there are many reasons why people did not respond to the character...
We don't like him be..be...be.bbbbecause he lacks conviction and s.sss.sss...tttt...utters all the time in fear.
If was only that i would be ok with him, but he is Jaheira's doormat practically, when i look Jaheira and Khalid, i don't see 2 party members, i see an mistress with her slave. Khalid lack of guts is frustrating, so he could have strenght 23, dexterity 20 and constitution 25 and i would still avoid him.
And to end... for god's sake, even in BG where the banters between NPCS are rare, only from the voiced comments by clicking on the NPC we can feel how pathetic Khalid is.
Not to mention the fact that pre-BG2, Rangers are the only class that can dual-wield.
Erm. No. Until BG2, noone can dual-wield. Unless you're talking P&P rules in which case I wouldn't know, there's no game mechanics for it at least, nor equipment slots. Try as much as you like, but plopping a second weapon onto the shield slot will just give you "Wrong Equipment Type" or somesuch error message.
Like Awong said, back before BG2 the Ranger got a bonus where if he just had a one-handed weapon equipped he'd get an extra attack per round to simulate dual-wielding.
I assume that BG:EE, though, will have your actual BG2 style of dual-wielding (in fact, I'd be bloody disappointed if it didn't)
But Medillen makes a good point, too. That starting bonus makes dual-wielding a lot more attractive for Rangers, whereas Fighters would often have to choose between it and GM
@MilesBeyond: I think you're thinking of the Icewind Dale series. Vanilla BG1, to my knowledge, gave no bonuses to rangers using a one-handed weapon and had no system for two-weapon style.
Tangent: I sometimes feel that making dual wield accessible to every class was not great for game balance. In 2e, only rangers had this benefit and that was part of their unique appeal. Rangers required high DEX (14+), making dual wield harder to achieve in P&P.
In BG, dual wield is accessible to any class. Further, DEX is not required, allowing anyone to do it easily. If I'm not mistaken, 2e suggested optional rules to permit dual wield with reduced penalty if your DEX was very high (15+).
I guess what I'm getting at is that one of the ranger's best class-specific benefits is lost in the game. The free pips in two-weapon style is great for the first 6 levels. After that, the true class Ranger is inferior to the fighter. Still love the class! Just sayin'
I end up pushing archery with him. He can be a great archer. There are several meat shields without putting him on the front. I find Edwin annoying. I find Dynaheir boring and an unfortunate waste of space. Also Jaheira and Khalid are a funny couple. When khalid dies I have to get another Druid fast. She is rediculously annoying but very useful.
I always find it amusing that people found Khalid to be the annoying one. I generally put Jaheira in a random hut, forced her to leave the party and then ran out of the building before she could talk to me and take Khalid with her. I always preferred Branwen for my healing and buffing needs.
I later on replaced Khalid with Ajantis though, so I could skip the pair entirely.
To be fair, Jaheira became more tolerable in BG 2. My main reason for not liking her in BG1 was because (in my opinion) she didn't bring enough to the table with her druid spells (in comparison to what a Cleric could do). I haven't got a clue what I'll do in BGEE though. They'll probably be dropped for the new characters.
Now if I can just find some space for a cleric in my party... For some reason, I really dislike the idea of playing as a Cleric myself. I'd go with a Ranger/Cleric, but you still don't get to use bows, which just conflicts with my idea of druids. That, and I'd get a lot more Fighters than I usually do. :P
After reading this thread, I don't feel as bad about letting Khalid get mauled by the Ogre with the gender bender belt every game where I have Jaheira in my party. In fairness, I haven't played a full game through with him but I have started him a few times and he always ends up running away in terror and dooming my party early in the game. I usually run with 2-4 characters for the first section of the game (at least through the mines) and having one you can't rely on to execute battle strategy doesn't work for me.
It isn't his stats - it is the combination of doormat personality (at least early) and morale failure.
@MilesBeyond: I think you're thinking of the Icewind Dale series. Vanilla BG1, to my knowledge, gave no bonuses to rangers using a one-handed weapon and had no system for two-weapon style.
Tangent: I sometimes feel that making dual wield accessible to every class was not great for game balance. In 2e, only rangers had this benefit and that was part of their unique appeal. Rangers required high DEX (14+), making dual wield harder to achieve in P&P.
In BG, dual wield is accessible to any class. Further, DEX is not required, allowing anyone to do it easily. If I'm not mistaken, 2e suggested optional rules to permit dual wield with reduced penalty if your DEX was very high (15+).
I guess what I'm getting at is that one of the ranger's best class-specific benefits is lost in the game. The free pips in two-weapon style is great for the first 6 levels. After that, the true class Ranger is inferior to the fighter. Still love the class! Just sayin'
Huh, maybe it is just IWD. I assumed it was BG1 as well but I could very well be wrong.
I would say there's a block between levels 6 and 9 where Ranger is inferior but once spellcasting becomes an option the Ranger begins to take back a bit of an edge.
Not to mention the fact that pre-BG2, Rangers are the only class that can dual-wield.
Erm. No. Until BG2, noone can dual-wield. Unless you're talking P&P rules in which case I wouldn't know, there's no game mechanics for it at least, nor equipment slots. Try as much as you like, but plopping a second weapon onto the shield slot will just give you "Wrong Equipment Type" or somesuch error message.
Like Awong said, back before BG2 the Ranger got a bonus where if he just had a one-handed weapon equipped he'd get an extra attack per round to simulate dual-wielding.
I assume that BG:EE, though, will have your actual BG2 style of dual-wielding (in fact, I'd be bloody disappointed if it didn't)
But Medillen makes a good point, too. That starting bonus makes dual-wielding a lot more attractive for Rangers, whereas Fighters would often have to choose between it and GM
This is false. While this DID occur in IWD1 (after you installed the expansion), it was not native in the original baldur's gate nor in tales of the sword coast.
Not to mention the fact that pre-BG2, Rangers are the only class that can dual-wield.
Erm. No. Until BG2, noone can dual-wield. Unless you're talking P&P rules in which case I wouldn't know, there's no game mechanics for it at least, nor equipment slots. Try as much as you like, but plopping a second weapon onto the shield slot will just give you "Wrong Equipment Type" or somesuch error message.
Like Awong said, back before BG2 the Ranger got a bonus where if he just had a one-handed weapon equipped he'd get an extra attack per round to simulate dual-wielding.
I assume that BG:EE, though, will have your actual BG2 style of dual-wielding (in fact, I'd be bloody disappointed if it didn't)
But Medillen makes a good point, too. That starting bonus makes dual-wielding a lot more attractive for Rangers, whereas Fighters would often have to choose between it and GM
This is false. While this DID occur in IWD1 (after you installed the expansion), it was not native in the original baldur's gate nor in tales of the sword coast.
Yeah, so I've noticed. There's actually a number of things HoW added that BG could benefit from. Specifically, the bonuses received by Druids and Bards. Those were lovely.
Because he sounds like Porky Pig. If you do 13 or so right clicks while your cursor is on his circle marker, he actually says "T-t-t-that's all, folks!" or something like that.
I don't really mind Khalid for the most point, but playing a long session of BG with him in the part becomes very annoying. Jahiera too is very annoying at times. It's their voice set that can grate after a while, though Khalid is more annoying.
Thing is if Khalid was a better developed character then I'd probably appreciate him more. I put up with jahiera mostly because I like her character (which saw better development in BG2).
Not even the devs or the owners of Black Isle and Bioware liked Khalid, after all they killed him in BG2. (Dynaheir was another i didn't like too, she didn't reflected a true witch of rashemen for me)
Comments
Oh, why those things are impossible? I recommend you to read "LIST OF THINGS THAT CAN'T BE DONE" in "Feature request" section. You can only hope modders will do something about him, but since you hate him, I doubt you even care.
Oh, by the way. Kagain is in vanilla game.
I've read the feature request section. If a game doesn't have something you mod it. Some of us have been doing this with games for over a decade.
Also I know Kag is in the vanilla game. He just doesn't have jack for background in vanilla.
- He has the second highest hit points of all the NPCs after Kagain (120) with 102 hit points. Ajantis has 92, Minsc has 85, Imoen has 80, Shar-Teel has 77, Kivan has 76, Coran has 62.
- He has one of the best THAC0s with High Mastery in Long Swords compared to the other NPCs.
- He has better AC (DEX) than Ajantis, Kagain and Minsc.
The only fault with Khalid I've found is his STR (15) and this can be overcome with the Ogre Braces. Once you give those to him, then he's a better tank than Ajantis, Kagain and Minsc.
It's a similar situation with Kagain (Str 16). Kagain is too weak to be a tank and has poor AC and needs the Ogre Braces as well. But even if you give Kagain the Ogre Braces, his AC is worse than Khalid.
With Minsc, you would normally give him the DEX braces to boost his DEX, but you can't do anything with his hit points. However, Khalid with the Ogre Braces is still a better tank with more STR and hit points.
Shar-Teel and Kivan have less hit points than Imoen! So even though they have good STR and DEX, they're quite squishy. And it's seems like a waste to give them the DEX braces for such a small increase (+1) in their stats. Give them the Ogre Braces? They already have 18/?? STR.
Coran? Equip him with the Ogre Braces and he's great. One problem though, Khalid has nearly double the hit points of him.
Overall, Khalid only has one stat (STR) that isn't great and easily overcome by one item in the game - Ogre Braces, which then makes him one of the best tanks in the game.
He's not bad, but people tend to underestimate him. If he was a fighter/mage, he'd probably be one of the favorite NPCs in the game.
For many of the reason people above have put his shortcomings in stats can easily be overcome making him the best tank in the game. Plus I've never really had any morale issues with him. Is this a confirmed shortcoming of his or is it just skewed perceptions by those who hate him?
Plus people forget one simple thing: the role of a tank is to be a meat-shield soaking damage and keeping attention away from the more fragile dpsers, not to have the highest dps + number of kills, so his less-than-perfect Str shouldn't matter this much. Khalid's high Con and weapon proficiencies allow him to tank just fine from the get-go. Only issue would be his higher than normal moral failure threshold but even this can be overcome and is not that frequent anyway.
Khalid - it's mostly the low morale and being forced to take Khalid/Jaheira as a pair. I hate Dynaheir for the same reason - both are not very impressive and I don't 'want' them in my party. I want Minsc and Jaheira, so this eats up four of the mere five slots I'm allowed.
I tolerate Khalid for the game, sometimes through gritted teeth. My kids think he's lamer than lame, too! And, if they need gauntlets of ogre power to be viable (not improved, but viable), then they're not right for the given class.
I have heard people make him an archer and have some success. While that would work, the extra dex point (and better character ambiance) of Kivan wins here.
I'm not surprised that Khalid keeps up with Minsc in the Nashkel mines. Kobolds don't generally make him run away in fear and shields have a lot of advantages over 2H weapons.
Well, the first thing he ever said to me, for no apparent reason, was "your muh... muh... mother is a fat ugly ha.. ha... hag." Why wouldn't I hate him?
Seriously though, Khalid's stats are not particularly good. At best they are C+. 15 strength as a melee fighter is nothing to brag about since it affects melee thac0, melee damage and carry weight, and given that he is a front line fighter he should be wearing a lot of heavy equipment, so he has little weight capacity left to carry loot, which is the second job of big strong fighters.
The strength can be remedied by the Gauntlets of Ogre power of course, but they appear so late in the game that I just don't bother with him, I might take Jaheira and send Khalid on a nude basilisk hunting expedition, but most of the time I don't bother with either of them.
And that's really where Khalid falls short, IMO. Are his fighting skills terrible compared to other NPCs? No, and has been pointed out, he could even be a bit better than most. But the thing is, he brings nothing else to the table. Minsc can Berserk, which makes him immune to the most devastating Mage spells. Also, he can eventually cast Armor of Faith (which might take a while, but people are talking about Khalid getting GM, so why not) which makes him far better at soaking up damage. You could even have him start Blessing the party. Not to mention the fact that pre-BG2, Rangers are the only class that can dual-wield. Subtract the Berserk and you've got the same bonuses for Kivan. In fact, unlike Minsc, Kivan as an archer is well-suited to take advantage of the Ranger's Stealth ability.
Then there's Ajantis, a Paladin. Again, he eventually gets to cast Armor of Faith. Also, his Paladin abilities include Lay on Hands, which is a good healing spell in a pinch, and Protection from Evil, which confers a whopping -2 enemy attack rolls and +2 to Saving Throws against evil opponents (which is almost all of them).
Heck, Coran is a comparable fighter to Khalid, and he's got an entire second class on the side.
The issue is that in BG, if you're going to be a fighter, you need godlike stats, because you haven't got anything else. Despite his other crappy stats, Kagain's 20 CON combined with his Dwarvern saving throws falls into that category. Khalid? Not quite.
Compared to the others listed above, Khalid ranks in as a more-or-less-as-good fighter with a lot less versatility and potential.
I will say this, though: I'd take him over Shar-Teel
This thread has been great so far....I'm beginning to think there are many reasons why people did not respond to the character...
If was only that i would be ok with him, but he is Jaheira's doormat practically, when i look Jaheira and Khalid, i don't see 2 party members, i see an mistress with her slave. Khalid lack of guts is frustrating, so he could have strenght 23, dexterity 20 and constitution 25 and i would still avoid him.
And to end... for god's sake, even in BG where the banters between NPCS are rare, only from the voiced comments by clicking on the NPC we can feel how pathetic Khalid is.
I assume that BG:EE, though, will have your actual BG2 style of dual-wielding (in fact, I'd be bloody disappointed if it didn't)
But Medillen makes a good point, too. That starting bonus makes dual-wielding a lot more attractive for Rangers, whereas Fighters would often have to choose between it and GM
Tangent: I sometimes feel that making dual wield accessible to every class was not great for game balance. In 2e, only rangers had this benefit and that was part of their unique appeal. Rangers required high DEX (14+), making dual wield harder to achieve in P&P.
In BG, dual wield is accessible to any class. Further, DEX is not required, allowing anyone to do it easily. If I'm not mistaken, 2e suggested optional rules to permit dual wield with reduced penalty if your DEX was very high (15+).
I guess what I'm getting at is that one of the ranger's best class-specific benefits is lost in the game. The free pips in two-weapon style is great for the first 6 levels. After that, the true class Ranger is inferior to the fighter. Still love the class! Just sayin'
Also Jaheira and Khalid are a funny couple. When khalid dies I have to get another Druid fast. She is rediculously annoying but very useful.
I later on replaced Khalid with Ajantis though, so I could skip the pair entirely.
To be fair, Jaheira became more tolerable in BG 2. My main reason for not liking her in BG1 was because (in my opinion) she didn't bring enough to the table with her druid spells (in comparison to what a Cleric could do). I haven't got a clue what I'll do in BGEE though. They'll probably be dropped for the new characters.
Now if I can just find some space for a cleric in my party... For some reason, I really dislike the idea of playing as a Cleric myself. I'd go with a Ranger/Cleric, but you still don't get to use bows, which just conflicts with my idea of druids. That, and I'd get a lot more Fighters than I usually do. :P
It isn't his stats - it is the combination of doormat personality (at least early) and morale failure.
I would say there's a block between levels 6 and 9 where Ranger is inferior but once spellcasting becomes an option the Ranger begins to take back a bit of an edge.
And because he's a goody-two-shoes, timid ninny.
Thing is if Khalid was a better developed character then I'd probably appreciate him more. I put up with jahiera mostly because I like her character (which saw better development in BG2).
(Dynaheir was another i didn't like too, she didn't reflected a true witch of rashemen for me)