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Intelligence stat for non arcane characters

madmaximusmadmaximus Member Posts: 140
edited November 2014 in Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
I never got to do the expansion packs in IWD. Waiting for my laptop to come back from the shop so I can get IWDEE. My question; Do non-mage types need that minimum of 11 intelligence like they did in BG for mind flayers and such?
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  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Nope.
  • madmaximusmadmaximus Member Posts: 140
    Thanks!
  • RamzaRamza Member Posts: 112
    Clerics and druids require a minimum of 8 int to cast divine spells from spell scrolls, however.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    edited November 2014
    Ramza said:

    Clerics and druids require a minimum of 8 int to cast divine spells from spell scrolls, however.

    Also to use some wands according to the description. I'm not sure which ones. And I believe the minimum is actually 9. At least that's the way the description is worded.

  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Ramza said:

    Clerics and druids require a minimum of 8 int to cast divine spells from spell scrolls, however.

    The minimum is 9.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    Jalily said:


    The minimum is 9.

    Are there any disadvantages to dropping Charisma below that? I know in 3rd Edition that it played a role in a Cleric's ability to Turn Undead. Is there anything like that in 2nd Edition rules, or is Charisma only useful for shop prices, and the odd dialogue option? If that.

  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    I don't think so. I know it does not matter for turn undead, and I can't think of anything else besides dialog and shop prices that it helps with.
  • madmaximusmadmaximus Member Posts: 140
    Jalily said:

    Ramza said:

    Clerics and druids require a minimum of 8 int to cast divine spells from spell scrolls, however.

    The minimum is 9.
    Good info to have, I was mostly concerned about my warrior and thief types. But this is good to know.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited November 2014
    Belanos said:

    Jalily said:


    The minimum is 9.

    Are there any disadvantages to dropping Charisma below that? I know in 3rd Edition that it played a role in a Cleric's ability to Turn Undead. Is there anything like that in 2nd Edition rules, or is Charisma only useful for shop prices, and the odd dialogue option? If that.
    there aren't any.

    - lead character's charisma also affects for starting reputation. minimum you can start the game with is 8 (for CE) and maximum is 12 (LG)
    - lead character's charisma also affects morale, but i don't know the mechanics of that. i'm pretty sure that low charisma doesn't produce penalties on morale however

    turn undead is not affected by charisma
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    bob_veng said:


    there aren't any.

    - lead character's charisma also affects for starting reputation. minimum you can start the game with is 8 (for CE) and maximum is 12 (LG)
    - lead character's charisma also affects morale, but i don't know the mechanics of that. i'm pretty sure that low charisma doesn't produce penalties on morale however

    turn undead is not affected by charisma

    OK then, maybe I need to reroll some of characters. I've gotten into the habit of giving everyone at least 10 in the skills they don't really use but I guess that's not really necessary. It will certainly make it easier to create characters, I won't need nearly as many points for most of them.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited November 2014
    you shouldn't reroll if medial charisma in your party is 9 or 10 unless you imagine some of your characters as fairly charmless and socially inept (below 8 for example).

    but if you don't care about such roleplaying, sure, reroll.
  • TheRaven476TheRaven476 Member Posts: 44
    There's also unique dialog options though. But unless you check the guides it's tough to know.

    For example you can save the drunk guy from his drinking habits but I believe you need a character with Intelligence AND Charisma above like 15 to do it?

    It's not "THAT" important but it offers some flavor and role playing benefits having different characters with combinations of higher secondary stats. I still try to get roles as high as possible so that I have high secondary characteristics just in case. I also keep my potions of +4 int just in case my pally needs to quaff one for some dialog options.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    bob_veng said:


    but if you don't care about such roleplaying, sure, reroll.

    But I do actually, which is why I've never gone below 10 for my unused stats. But after considering it, I realize that 9 would actually be a better average and would give me a bit more leeway when creating a character. Some classes can be tough to come up with a decent character. Paladins for example, as well as Bards and Druids.

  • madmaximusmadmaximus Member Posts: 140
    Belanos said:

    bob_veng said:


    but if you don't care about such roleplaying, sure, reroll.

    But I do actually, which is why I've never gone below 10 for my unused stats. But after considering it, I realize that 9 would actually be a better average and would give me a bit more leeway when creating a character. Some classes can be tough to come up with a decent character. Paladins for example, as well as Bards and Druids.

    Paladin's generally get pretty high rolls if you stick with it.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    bob_veng said:

    you shouldn't reroll if medial charisma in your party is 9 or 10 unless you imagine some of your characters as fairly charmless and socially inept (below 8 for example).

    but if you don't care about such roleplaying, sure, reroll.

    9 or 10 is average charisma for a human. It's perfectly likely that an adventurer might have lower charisma - even significantly lower - and feel like an outsider and unable to relate with her peers leading her to leave her home and take up a life of adventuring.

    I think it's so silly to say that you have to have average scores if you care about role playing, adventurers are the definition of unlikely characters in both positive and negative aspects.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    In original IWD, if your shopping person had high charisma, prices would drop. Yes, a char with less CHR could then talk for more expensive prices. If you need Charisma, dump it onto one person... probably your Bard, druid or paladin.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    madmaximus said:



    Paladin's generally get pretty high rolls if you stick with it.

    I find I always have to make some sort of compromise with them though, usually in Dexterity or Constitution. Or both. They're probably the hardest characters to roll well on, they don't have a lot of wiggle room as far as a dump stat is concerned. Even Intelligence can't be lowered all that much, as you might want him/her to be able use the odd scroll now and then.

  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    Belanos said:



    I find I always have to make some sort of compromise with them though, usually in Dexterity or Constitution. Or both. They're probably the hardest characters to roll well on, they don't have a lot of wiggle room as far as a dump stat is concerned. Even Intelligence can't be lowered all that much, as you might want him/her to be able use the odd scroll now and then.

    Their super high stat minimums make them and rangers the easiest classes to get good rolls on. Yes, they need a lot of stats, but you will never find a Paladin with less than 17 charisma, for instance.

    My Paladin has the best stats in my entire party - 18/58 strength, 18 dexterity, 18 constitution, 10 intelligence, 13 wisdom, and 18 charisma. A total of 95, and it didn't take me all that long to get.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    edited November 2014
    Ancalagon44 said:


    My Paladin has the best stats in my entire party - 18/58 strength, 18 dexterity, 18 constitution, 10 intelligence, 13 wisdom, and 18 charisma. A total of 95, and it didn't take me all that long to get.

    You've shortchanged it on Wisdom though. Paladins can cast up to level 6 spells, so you need a Wisdom of score of 16. That's what I mean about making compromises. It's going to be pretty tough getting something beyond 95, even for a Paladin.

  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    edited November 2014
    Paladins don't get bonus spells from wisdom in 2E, I'm not even sure if it affects what spell level they can cast.

    EDIT:
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/20739/does-the-higher-spell-level-for-paladin-depend-from-wisdom

    Yup I was right, Wisdom has no effect on a Paladins spell casting abilities.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    Ancalagon44 said:



    Yup I was right, Wisdom has no effect on a Paladins spell casting abilities.

    I wasn't aware of that. It's difficult sometimes adjusting to 2nd Edition rules after playing 3rd Edition. I'm used to the way things worked in the Neverwinter games. I'll certainly keep that in mind if I decide to run with a Paladin.

  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    Yeah, that is one of the reasons I prefer 3E games such as IWD2. Everything just makes so much more sense.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    Wowo said:

    bob_veng said:

    you shouldn't reroll if medial charisma in your party is 9 or 10 unless you imagine some of your characters as fairly charmless and socially inept (below 8 for example).

    but if you don't care about such roleplaying, sure, reroll.

    9 or 10 is average charisma for a human. It's perfectly likely that an adventurer might have lower charisma - even significantly lower - and feel like an outsider and unable to relate with her peers leading her to leave her home and take up a life of adventuring.

    I think it's so silly to say that you have to have average scores if you care about role playing, adventurers are the definition of unlikely characters in both positive and negative aspects.
    i think you misunderstood me. you have to have an average score in an attribute if the character is not to be below average in that aspect, that's all i've said.
    i've said it in response to "should i go lower then 10?" and i've given a roleplaying reason why you shouldn't lest you want that character to be socially maladapted / unattractive (8 and below).

    i'm not saying anything about what's *likely* for fantasyland invented characters as i just don't think in those terms.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    edited November 2014
    Jalily said:

    Nope.

    Lies!

    You need at least 16 intelligence (and 15 charisma) in order to complete the quest in Easthaven where you can get the elderly drunken sailor, named Old Jed, off the sauce for good.

    The dialogue options that will show Old Jed the error of his ways and lead him to retake control of his life are only available if you meet those requirements. No true hero would turn their back on a man in need!
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 927
    bob_veng said:

    Belanos said:

    Jalily said:


    The minimum is 9.

    Are there any disadvantages to dropping Charisma below that? I know in 3rd Edition that it played a role in a Cleric's ability to Turn Undead. Is there anything like that in 2nd Edition rules, or is Charisma only useful for shop prices, and the odd dialogue option? If that.
    there aren't any.

    - lead character's charisma also affects for starting reputation. minimum you can start the game with is 8 (for CE) and maximum is 12 (LG)
    - lead character's charisma also affects morale, but i don't know the mechanics of that. i'm pretty sure that low charisma doesn't produce penalties on morale however

    turn undead is not affected by charisma
    Unless it's different from BG, you're incorrect about reputation.

    Reputation and charisma both affect your reaction score. Reaction is what ultimately affects store prices.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    yeah, forgot about reaction score.

    but what i said about starting reputation is also true.
  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    Is it possible to improve reputation in IWD? I've never seen a quest that resulted in a reputation improvement.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    Dazzu said:

    In original IWD, if your shopping person had high charisma, prices would drop. Yes, a char with less CHR could then talk for more expensive prices. If you need Charisma, dump it onto one person... probably your Bard, druid or paladin.

    Adding to what @Dazzu‌ says, in IWDEE, the portrait of the person with the highest CHA should be on the top (the place for a party-leader) - put the one with the highest CHA on the top and then speak to a merchant.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    edited November 2014
    @bob_veng‌ and @Klorox‌

    Alignment - Starting Reputation
    Lawful Good - 12
    Neutral Good - 11
    Chaotic Good - 11
    Lawful Neutral - 10
    Neutral - 10
    Chaotic Neutral - 10
    Lawful Evil - 9
    Neutral Evil - 9
    Chaotic Evil - 8

    @Ancalagon44‌ It's not possible to improve your reputation other than through donation but you cannot raise your reputation above 8 by donating to temples.

    Your reputation may let you benefit from additional store discounts.

    Reputation - Price Adjustment
    1 +900%
    2 +900%
    3 +100%
    4 +50%
    5 +40%
    6 +30%
    7,8 +20%
    9 +10%
    10-14 0%
    15 -5%
    16 -10%
    17 -15%
    18 -20%
    19 -25%
    20 -30%

    An additional modifier to store prices is based on CHA. A high CHA will yield characters better prices when purchasing equipment.

    Score - Store Discount
    (1-15) - 0%
    16 - 5%
    17 -10%
    18 -15%
    19 -20%
    (20-25) -25%
  • madmaximusmadmaximus Member Posts: 140
    Sitting here watching my computer download IWDEE, and taking its sweet time. Damn apartment complex WiFi.
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