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Use Any Item Nerf

TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
This discussion was created from comments split from: Nerf request: fast weapons.

Comments

  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 243
    Was not the "use any item" ability nerfed a while ago so you can't "use any item" as a thief? Very stupid(explanation: "use any item" does not let you "use any item" now, hard to not consider that stupid) and uncalled for change that should have been left for mods, I would say this is the same type of situation and it should just stay the same since the game is just too old to change now.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    DullSkullTheSecond said:

    Was not the "use any item" ability nerfed a while ago so you can't "use any item" as a thief? Very stupid(explanation: "use any item" does not let you "use any item" now, hard to not consider that stupid) and uncalled for change that should have been left for mods, I would say this is the same type of situation and it should just stay the same since the game is just too old to change now.

    I am not sure what you are talking about... It still works the same as always I think...
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    The only thing that changed about Use Any Item is that it no longer lets you use NPC-specific gear.
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 243
    TJ_Hooker said:

    The only thing that changed about Use Any Item is that it no longer lets you use NPC-specific gear.

    Which are items you can no longer use, with "use any item". Thieves where not very strong to begin with and this was their ace, bad change if you ask me.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    @DullSkullTheSecond‌ That wasn't a nerf so much as it was a fix to the NPC specific items. Those items were never intended to be used by anyone else, not even if they had UAI. Besides this, it is hardly a very significant nerf... By the time you get UAI you have most likely stopped using the NPC specific items on the NPCs they was made for because you have found better stuff anyway.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    DullSkullTheSecond said:

    TJ_Hooker said:

    The only thing that changed about Use Any Item is that it no longer lets you use NPC-specific gear.

    Which are items you can no longer use, with "use any item". Thieves where not very strong to begin with and this was their ace, bad change if you ask me.
    agreed UAI should be use any item, how is being tied to a specific NPC make an item exempt from that ability? Makes 0 sense.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    edited November 2014
    I think it's a workaround for the idea that while you could USE the item, you wouldn't get full benefit from it as the NPC-specific powers only unfold in the hands of that NPC and no one else - sort of like Aegis Fang can drop in the game but is nothing but an ordinary hammer in the hands of anyone but Wulfgar.

    Since having that specific functionality work properly would be much too complicated from a technical standpoint, the easiest workaround is to simply disallow NPC-specific gear even under UAI. Not a perfect solution, but as people said it's usually completely irrelevant anyway as by the time you get UAI you have much better gear. (The notable exception I suppose would be Jan's armor, which can be used to stack physical resistancce)
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    I seem to remember that change to UAI being more of a side effect than a deliberate change. In the vanilla game, some of the NPC-specific gear could actually be worn by anyone, so long as all their stats were >= to the NPC stats. I know this was the case for things like Valygar's and Keldorn's armour anyways. They fixed this for BG(2):EE, and whatever they did to fix it also made these items unusable by a thief with UAI.

    Take this with a grain of salt though, as this all based on stuff I half remember reading probably over a year ago.
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 243
    Tresset said:

    @DullSkullTheSecond‌ That wasn't a nerf so much as it was a fix to the NPC specific items. Those items were never intended to be used by anyone else, not even if they had UAI. Besides this, it is hardly a very significant nerf... By the time you get UAI you have most likely stopped using the NPC specific items on the NPCs they was made for because you have found better stuff anyway.

    I don't see how the ability "use any item" could possibly mean "use kind of all items except the things you actually want to use". Also Valygar and Jan's armour are very powerful choices of armour that are still very viable when you get the ability. And why would the ability that lets a chaotic evil human thief use carsomyr a sword of pure goody goodness somehow not work when trying to equip a leather armor tailored for a human male ranger or even worse use his damn sword???

    You can support the choice the devs made all you want but it's weird that one is forced to using mods if one don't want to change the game. Especially when the change is just ridiculous.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    DullSkullTheSecond said:

    Tresset said:

    @DullSkullTheSecond‌ That wasn't a nerf so much as it was a fix to the NPC specific items. Those items were never intended to be used by anyone else, not even if they had UAI. Besides this, it is hardly a very significant nerf... By the time you get UAI you have most likely stopped using the NPC specific items on the NPCs they was made for because you have found better stuff anyway.

    I don't see how the ability "use any item" could possibly mean "use kind of all items except the things you actually want to use".
    From what I remember other people saying in the past, I'm pretty sure the P&P version of UAI did not in fact let you use any item. Not that I advocate P&P purism, but obviously the idea of an ability called "Use Any Item" that doesn't actually let you use "any item" isn't new.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited November 2014
    they should rename it "use some items" then!

    btw here's another thread about this from back in the day
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/25352/are-the-character-specific-items-meant-to-override-use-any-item

    Here's what I said there:

    It's not "Use Any Item except for the one's we want to arbitrarily tie to one individual NPC amongst the millions of NPCs found in the game"

    Why isn't Longtooth Dagger (or whatever) only usable by Lord Peter Cornelius Longtooth then? Why isn't Shadow Dragon Armor only usable by a Shadow Dragon?


    Also a mod was made to undo this "fix"
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/26240/use-any-npc-item-add-on-for-use-any-item-hla
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    I actually think back to Xan's Moonblade, which was intelligent and actually refused to be wielded by anyone but Xan. I don't think in any sense it would be right to let anyone else use that, even with UAI. As for the other things, I could honestly be happy either way. If UAI works on them, then I could see that, but I could also see it the other way around. To me it is a relatively small collection of, at best, mediocre items, and it doesn't bother me so much that they are excluded from UAI.
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 243
    smeagolheart said:

    they should rename it "use some items" then!

    btw here's another thread about this from back in the day
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/25352/are-the-character-specific-items-meant-to-override-use-any-item

    Here's what I said there:

    It's not "Use Any Item except for the one's we want to arbitrarily tie to one individual NPC amongst the millions of NPCs found in the game"

    Why isn't Longtooth Dagger (or whatever) only usable by Lord Peter Cornelius Longtooth then? Why isn't Shadow Dragon Armor only usable by a Shadow Dragon?


    Also a mod was made to undo this "fix"
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/26240/use-any-npc-item-add-on-for-use-any-item-hla

    I have the mod but thanks anyway, also it just further proves that this change should not have been added in a patch. This is mod material and that is what it should have been used for.

    @TJ_Hooker had no idea of the P&P restrictions but the restrictions this "enhancement" provides in game is pretty silly. Also I may have gone a bit far with the "use any item should let you use any item", obviously there need to be some restrictions. But as I said the effect it has in the game is just silly. "Nope! Sorry charname this armor has the name Knuckle Butt embroidered in the neck so you can't use it, but you can use this same armor without a name if you are trained for it".
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