Mage needed?

schreier

My current party (which I am pretty happy with) is a Berserker/Druid, Undead Hunter, Archer, Bounty Hunter, Bard, and Multiclassed Mage/Cleric.

So far, I am pretty underwhelmed by the mage side, particularly on HoF ... is a bard enough arcane caster for a party?

I'm considering a new party of:
Berserker/Druid, Multiclass Ranger/Cleric, Archer, Archer, Bard, Shadowdancer/Fighter, with the back 4 all going ranged w/ longbows, and the front two going dual scimitar and dual morningstar ... thoughts?

My current mage/cleric is basically just buffing, debuffing and summoning, with direct damage spells almost useless (although the lvl 1 chromatic orb is nice) ... I would think a bard could do that just fine? I know bards can't get lvl 9 spells, but I'm not there yet so don't know if a higher level mage is actually worth it. I'm coming from Baldur's gate, where they were king.

moody_mage

Mages are not needed - especially in HoF where spell damage doesn't scale to reflect monsters extra HP. As you say a Bard could do as good a job as well as providing extra duties only a bard can fill.

Fardragon

Yes, I'm playing with just a bard. It's plenty.

DreadKhan

Imho, mages are okay in HoF, but if you intend to actually rely on their damage spells, you need to run a very caster heavy party. Expect to use at least 4 times as many spells, so one issue is scrolls, especially early. I would think 2 sorcerers and a bard early, 2 dual to mages (or gnome milticlass) would give you enough slots to wipe out groups. You can substitute in an Avenger, or a 2nd Bard. More bard = more reliance on summons. You'd still want one pretty dedicated tank, who can be your thief/scout as well. Having evasion on a tank can be a fun tactic.

You should keep track of your spell slots, as you don't have as much to fall back on when you run out of spells, and mobs will likeky eat slots due to rounds of dedicated casting. Total damage will be really high, but spread out.

Jarrakul

I think a mage is fine, and definitely contributes, but is hardly necessary. If you don't want to run one, I suspect you'll manage.

jackjack

I have a Bard and a Mage/Thief multi and almost feel like that's overkill for Arcane so far. I don't think I'll ever run a single class Mage. Sorcerer maybe, but I'm much more of a fan of the divine magic in this game.

superliminaldude

I've been playing a run with two bards instead of a mage (one Skald and one trueclass) and I don't find myself missing the mage one bit. All my buffing needs are taken care of, and the bard songs are just so powerful. I feel like the high level mage spells just aren't as useful in this game, partially because high damage spells like horrid wilting has friendly fire. I was also horrified to realize that finger of death destroyed loot.

jigglefloyd

When it gets to late game, mage's are really only good for summoning fodder and buffing your team, but most of the good buffs like haste, improved haste, improved invisibility, emotion: hope, emotion: courage can be learned by bards. Level 7 - 9 spells aren't really "needed". Chain contingency is nice, along with spell trigger, and spell sequencer and maybe an occasional timestop, but after my play through I don't think you need them even when playing HoF mode. If you have a good inquisitor or a high level cleric for dispel magic you don't need the anti-wizard spells like spellstrike or pierce magic. You also don't need Simulacrum or Project Image unless you're soloing.

BelgarathMTH

I'm finding that using a bard as your party's sole arcane caster works just fine through the parts of IWD:EE I've played (admittedly not that far into it.)

But, the bard's faster leveling makes Chromatic Orb a true wonder. Bam, bam, bam, he can stun three enemies, say three hard-hitting Verbeegs, where your mage or sorcerer would not be able to do so. I only expect the faster leveling of the bard vis a vis arcane spells to continue to increase his advantage as I play through the game, especially since he has buffing songs that are arguably better than any arcane spell, and he can cast the songs at will.

lunar

Sorcerers are very fun, with insane difficulty and/or hof mode they can raise up to high lvls and start casting stuff like ice lance and summon water elemental while the mage still tries to collect lvl2 scrolls like blur, knock, etc.

Overall I would say a mage is a weak choice in IwD, especially if you play on higher difficulties they will starve for the scrolls. My sorc (on insane difficulty) is having fun disintegrating frost giants in the ice caves. It's like BAM! Giant demolished, +16000 xp gained. Fun!

GlorenBronzebeard

I am currently playing a game with no wizard or sorc.... I have a cleric and a fighter/cleric but no pure mage class... I am doing just fine.. I would like a few more destructive AOE spells but as my cleric gains higher levels he is able to dish out some good AOE spells... plus raise dead really helps when I am getting overwhelmed.