I really dont get it. Fighter/Mage

NaughtyHand

Im planning to play BG, and then import character to the second game. The thing is I dont understand if I be able to wear full armor and cast spells after dual classing to mage( at lvl 9) and then passing my fighter class level of course. Thank you in advance.

Dee

Wearing armor disables wizard spellcasting, so you won't be able to cast mage spells while wearing armor (unless it's Elven Chain, which specifically allows spellcasting while equipped).

NaughtyHand

Aha, ok. BTW, would you be so kind to tell me if I should even do k/m for my very very first run of BG series? Because I was looking at Paladin as well, but I wanted chaotic good enlightenment.

moody_mage

I would avoid dual-classing if it is your very first run. Stop consulting powerbuilders guides and simply play what you want to play. Once you've grasped the ruleset and the meta of the game then you can play around with different combos.

NaughtyHand

The thing is I wanted to play the old classics Fallout 1,2, Icewind Dale, Planescape etc. which I never played or when I tried to play them I was a kid and didnt get much, u know how it is, so I am not sure there will be a second run; therefore, I want to finish( if possible) every quest in the game and be done with it. However, who knows, maybe Ill like it that much Ill run it a second and a third time.

NaughtyHand

Uh uh, and of course Arcanum of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, because Troikas Vampires was f...g gorgeous.

wubble

single classing is best for your first run, it keeps things simple so you can enjoy the game.
if you play a second time (probably with mods/higher difficulty) that is the time to think about powergaming (of course single classes are still good).

NaughtyHand

I usually play games on the hardest difficulty possible. I like a challenge, so it is other aspect of me picking something Ill be able to play on "hard".

DreadKhan

Uh, if you plsy on insane and then rock a powetgamey build, you could just go core rules and not powergame. You are offsetting the difficulty. K to Mage is not nearly as good late gsme as a multiclass F/M. Not even close. But they make SoA pretty easy when they get their Kensai levels back.

Do a multiclass.

pixie359

Be warned that the idea that a K->M is weaker late-game than a multi is... disputed.

To the OP, I'd say - don't read too much, and play the game. Choose a character play style you like - If you want simple and smashy, a warrior class is for you. If you want some management but not too much, go for a thief or cleric. If you are happy to read spell descriptions and work out what and when you need for each situation, go mage.

I'd advise against sorcerer in the first go through at least, as you risk choosing poorly before you understand the spell options and requirements.

DreadKhan

K to M is inarguably weaker in BG2. Not getting warrior HLAs combined with bad THAC0 amounts to a mage that looks cool carrying two weapons. If you really want a K to M to be a powerhouse, play IWD.

K to M was a killer build in SoA only BG2, hand down the best. It really loses steam in ToB compared to a Blade or FM multi. Berserker to mage is strictly better than K to M unless you dual quite late. BG1 you get Gauntlets of Expertise, BG2 you get Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, which swing things pretty far in favour of just going B to M.

For a newbie, FM multi is really incredible late, but F Illusionist gnome is totally awesome the whole game. Really awesome build.

Blackraven

@NaughtyHand, if you insist on dualclassing, keep in mind that you need a score of at least 15 in the prime stat of your starting class (for a Fighter or Fighter kit that would be 15 in Strength) and at least 17 in the prime stat of the class you want to dual into (for a Mage that would be 17 in Intelligence).

Personally I'm not fond of dual-classing, especially at higher levels, and like @‌DreadKhan recommend you to go with a multiclass for your first run, if only because it's a bit complex and easy to mess up. Playing a multiclass will allow you to play the Fighter/Mage hybrid for the entire trilogy rather than a pure Fighter in the first game (and maybe part of the second), followed by a pure Mage for a portion of BG2 until you've reached one level higher as a Mage than the number of levels you had as a Fighter when you dualled, and then, finally, the Fighter/Mage...

OzzyBotkins

I think that it would be better to do a multiclass fighter/mage then a duel class

dreamrider

For a single playthrough, never touched it before run, I recommend Core rules (mainly what the higher difficulties do is multiply the HP of the bad guys). The complexities of the game and the system will be challenge enough without getting killed a lot just because you don't yet know how to squeeze every last damage point out of each swing and every spell.

I'd recommend playing a Ranger, at least for BG1, for a modest variety of CHARNAME abilities, wide armor / weapons selection. Then, if you feel you have got the knack of the game system, and want some more spellcasting ability, you can dual to Ranger/Cleric early in BG2, and have one of the favored powerhouse combos to play out BG2. (Make sure that your Wisdom coming out of BG1 is at least 17 - this shouldn't be difficult with this plan; I think min Wis for a Ranger is 14, and there are 3 Tomes of Understanding in BG1, if you go everywhere & play every side quest.)

If you think you might do this, consider making your weapons choices from the beginning from within the Cleric restrictions. The biggest oddity that this causes is a Ranger that relies on a sling as his/her power ranged weapon, but since BG:EE and BG2:EE add Strength bonuses to slings and thrown weapons, the loss of bow options doesn't impact as much as you might think. You do have to keep buying (cheap) stones, instead of just picking up all the dropped arrows, but then you don't use them as fast.

Sed

I don't see why you guys are saying that playing a dual classed fighter/mage would be any more difficult or complicated? It's basically just a single class mage with extra HP and the ability to punch someone in the face with a weapon.

If anything, it makes a squishy mage much more easy to play.
The only time it gets more complicated is if you want to really benefit as a fighter with mage buffs etc., because that requires some extra knowledge, and that is more common when you multiclass.

moody_mage

Sed said:

I don't see why you guys are saying that playing a dual classed fighter/mage would be any more difficult or complicated? It's basically just a single class mage with extra HP and the ability to punch someone in the face with a weapon.

If anything, it makes a squishy mage much more easy to play.
The only time it gets more complicated is if you want to really benefit as a fighter with mage buffs etc., because that requires some extra knowledge, and that is more common when you multiclass.

A first time playing may well struggle during the period when they need to regain their mage levels without prior knowledge of the game. There is then also the transition between playing styles, changing from a charge in warrior to a more cautious approach where you need to closely monitor combat buffs when in melee.

It is doable, but it can make the game seem overly complex and/or difficult on your first run.

Waysted

K->M is overrated IMO, especially with ToB installed. Hell, I would argue that a B->M is better.

Here is what I think:

K->M is pretty much a buff primary spellcaster, supplemented by weapons.

A F/M is a spellsword who keeps improving spellwise and fighterwise. K->M have better spellpower, but lack fighter HLAs and THACO that multis get. K->Ms can get grand mastery in a weapon though, but that's offset by the THACO and APR dependent on when you dualed from a fighter.. Also, being human, you don't get innate resistances/saving throws that you could get from a elf or a gnome.

It's really all up to you. I did a K->M back in the day, when there was a huge circle jerk about it, and I really wasn't that impressed. I guess I just I didn't like the fact that my character was gimped for 8+ levels (depending on when you dual).

I'm a friggin' Baalspawn, I don't want to be a useless pos for a chapter or two of the game. (Yes, I know you can do scroll xp exploits by disbanding your party, but that just kills immersion for me).

Some prefer multi, others prefer dual, it's really up to you.

NaughtyHand

Everyone thanks a lot for explanations and advices.
P.S. Ah! One more question regarding scrolls. If I am correct I read somewhere that I have to save all of the scrolls for the point when Ill dual, and then learn them to gain XP? Is that right?

moody_mage

You can do that yes. The ability to also then erase spells from your spellbook and relearn them provides extra available XP on top of this.

It's a bit of a chore though. Be sure to kick everyone out of your party first though otherwise the XP gets split equally (this will likely kill any romances you have going though - or at least it used to).

NaughtyHand

Ok! Ill have to check on that romance part. Thanks again.

Phaex

One of the tweak mods lets you cast arcane spells while wearing armor. Armor just provides a scaling (armor type) chance to fail the spellcast. Atweaks or G3's tweaks I think (maybe SCS?).

NaughtyHand

Nah, I'll play the game as it is, but thanks anyway.

jimmysdabestcop

+1 for Dual. If you dual at level 7. That dual will get higher spells before the multi. Thaco who cares when you got Tensers and Black Blade of Despair.

Even if it is your first time. If you start out as a dual and switch over at level 7 from Fighter(or Kit) you will hit level 8 Mage anyway at end of game and be ready to export to BG2. But for a large part of the game you are still in your fighter kit learning the ropes. Those 8 mage levels come real quick at end game.

I probably go Kensai to Mage. Or Berserker to Cleric.

Berserker/Cleric are absolute beasts. Can boost Str, Dex and con to 25 bascially with Draw Upon Holy Might. And get Fighters Thaco with Holy Power. I don't think they get Entropy Shield in Bg2 unless its coming after patch, I'm not sure. There are buff spells lower their AC far enough you are hit plus Armor of Faith for resistances. Plus Regeneration HP per round spell. I'm sure I am forgetting plenty. Oh and Magic Resistance Spell too. 3 pips in dual wield. 5 pips in say flails or hammers. Plus best Armors and Helmets.

Now the K->M might be better end game (last 1/3 I guess) but that is a lot of hours to wait for that pay off. And that is mostly cause end game mages dominate themselves anyway.

Plus if you are exporting from Bg1 you will be boosting Str, Dex, Con with Tomes and there are 3 Wisdom Tomes. So you can easily have a wisdom of 21 on that Fighter/Cleric going into Bg2. Charisma BAH! Int maybe around 9-10 plus the Tome in Bg1. Your Berserker is immune to level drain when enraged. Potential have 19 for Str, Dex and Con as a base going into Bg2.

Don't give any Tomes to your party. They are yours!

NaughtyHand

jimmysdabestcop said:

+1 for Dual... They are yours!

Ok. Thanks for confirmation. I am saving scrolls, and if I understood mechanics correctly in the ToSC I'll be able to get nice mage in the begining.
I want to add that this game is gorgeous. Didn't have such fun for some time. I will definitely replay it as an evil character.

DreadKhan said:

Do a multiclass.

Not true, I'm very much expecting me having a decent dual. However, you were right about core rules, they are just fine.

jackjack

I second the notion of rolling a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist. The loss of Necromancy spells is pretty well offset by the F/I's ability to dish out physical damage. They are absolute monsters throughout the saga.

jimmysdabestcop

jackjack said:

I second the notion of rolling a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist. The loss of Necromancy spells is pretty well offset by the F/I's ability to dish out physical damage. They are absolute monsters throughout the saga.

Why continue to gain fighter levels until the end game? it just slows down your spell progression and number of spells?

The Mage gets spells to buff Thaco (tensers) to fighter levels anyway with an extra attack, AC and HP bonus etc. Plus Black Blade of Despair. I'm not sure why you pick a multiclass PC over a dual class PC unless its for Role Play reasons. Plus multiclass cant get Grandmastery.

If you wanted a more powerful character you would just dual over at 9 instead of 7. Plus dual gets you kits. Berserker or Kensai to Mage.

FinneousPJ

@jimmysdabestcop‌ HLAs

Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive

jimmysdabestcop said:

jackjack said:

I second the notion of rolling a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist. The loss of Necromancy spells is pretty well offset by the F/I's ability to dish out physical damage. They are absolute monsters throughout the saga.

Why continue to gain fighter levels until the end game? it just slows down your spell progression and number of spells?

The Mage gets spells to buff Thaco (tensers) to fighter levels anyway with an extra attack, AC and HP bonus etc. Plus Black Blade of Despair. I'm not sure why you pick a multiclass PC over a dual class PC unless its for Role Play reasons. Plus multiclass cant get Grandmastery.

If you wanted a more powerful character you would just dual over at 9 instead of 7. Plus dual gets you kits. Berserker or Kensai to Mage.

I, for one, like being a Fighter/Mage the entire adventure.

kcwise

I feel the only way to settle this debate once and for all is a free-for-all pit fight in which all possible combos of fighter and mage battle for dominance. One spell blade to rule them all!

FinneousPJ

@kcwise That's irrelevant, though, since this game isn't about PvP at all.

Wowo

jimmysdabestcop said:

jackjack said:

I second the notion of rolling a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist. The loss of Necromancy spells is pretty well offset by the F/I's ability to dish out physical damage. They are absolute monsters throughout the saga.

Why continue to gain fighter levels until the end game? it just slows down your spell progression and number of spells?

The Mage gets spells to buff Thaco (tensers) to fighter levels anyway with an extra attack, AC and HP bonus etc. Plus Black Blade of Despair. I'm not sure why you pick a multiclass PC over a dual class PC unless its for Role Play reasons. Plus multiclass cant get Grandmastery.

If you wanted a more powerful character you would just dual over at 9 instead of 7. Plus dual gets you kits. Berserker or Kensai to Mage.

Umm HLAs? /thread.

Not to mention how much more effective a fighter/Mage multi is in BG1 compared to a dual.