I find dopplegangers to be a cowardly and greedy version of T-1000. I think that no character in BG would be stupid enough to travel with such a monster.
Right, it is nearly that stupid, like travel with Drow... oh wait !
Doppleganger party member is great idea.
I want romance with him.
CHARNAME: Honey, today i want f**k somes nice elven ass. Can you arrange it ? Doppleganger: Sure darling... ** blomp ** Something like this ? CHARNAME: Bigger tits and short hair please. Doppleganger: ** blomp ** Better ? CHARNAME: Damn girl ! You know what i like ! CHARNAME: ... CHARNAME: Can you made three boobs ? Doppleganger: ** blomp ** CHARNAME: I love you...
I would be overjoyed at the option for an undead party obviously would not work with the Baldur's Gate plot (not sure why Gorion would want to raise a "baby" lich as his own, he would probably have dumped it in the sea with a brick tied around its foot if that was left on his doorstep with "Bhaalspawn" scribbled on its forehead) but would fit pretty well in Icewind Dale to have a skeleton ranger, lich sorcerer, vampire thief, ghoul fighter or a wraith cleric(?) as part of an evil party
Yeah, I wouldn't mind undead party member or player character, but agreed, it would be hard to pull off in Baldur's Gate. The only way you could have an undead player character if they had a disguise option for going about cities and such... unless they were a vampire or werewolf (though werewolves are only technically undead), in which case they can easily pass as human in most circumstances (but I'd much rather have something like a Skeleton Warrior or Death Knight as a companion).
I wouldn't mind a monster companion like a Gnoll, Half-ogre etc, but it's largely the same problem in that you have someone who is by and large socially unacceptable and would be likely attacked on sight.
@CheOffshore that may run into the same troubles as the Valen Mod - ie. crippled during the day and vulnerable as all hell to clerical spells. I suppose wolfweres could be included with some modifications to how the 'Puppy Love' quest in Tethir Forest progresses? (it always bothered me that quest didnt have a happy ending... for the wolfweres, not for Safana >:D)
Don't know if i would appreciate an xvart or kobold (though i did really like Deekin in NWN2, besides his minor role there).
I suggested an doppleganger NPC on the past, so @reedmilfam you have my support here. The game has a lot of dopples and for at least one of them understand that main char is the winning team don't need to take so much effort, does it? Or maybe just any other reason for a doppler join !
If anyone cares to make a pool for "Add a doppleganger NPC in BG"... well this person already has my vote.
@kamuizin Yep. I saw your recommendation about doppels and thought it would be hilarious if it also made fun of the party members in voice, etc. Really could be a fun charry.
@Dalis918 i don't know, ask to your centaur, maybe he's a half dopplerganger that tried to become a horse ! Or you can look on D&D content in internet and see by yourself that a doppleganger race is compatible as a playable race.
There's a bunch of original common humanoid NPCs already, so i would really like a monster race for NPC, as said before about Deekin, my opinion apart about the failure that Neverwinter Night was, Deekin the kobold was an awersome NPC (i only saw him in NWN 2 anyway).
In an deep evaluation, apart from a doppelganger or a i would prefer to let monster NPCs to join main char in Baldur's Gate II, as those races can be pretty powerfull to low party campaigns. In Eberrow world set for example, the changelings (the doppelganger related creature of that world) is a playable race.
But that's it, some people will like the idea, others don't, we can't please everyone, so let's move to other possibilities of unique races, as already exist an proper pool for doppelgangers.
@Redguard If you can have a Drow in your party and not be attacked on sight, I doubt an undead would be any worse. @CrazedSlayer NOOO MY FAV CHARACTER :,( I personally would love an undead character that would join you, preferably one with a hidden agenda (I think all dead people have super secret agendas in this game... Bhaal, Sarevok, Bodhi, it doesn't end), and decided on the PERFECT premise to that end: TWISTED RUNE! Why not add a Twisted Rune member to your party who has a mission and could use your help, and ALSO wants to use you to bolster his advance within the Rune (Even though most members don't even know they're working for the rune).
I figure since you can bring in Harpers, Zhents and a Red Wizard, why not a Twisted Rune member?
Of course... how come we can't get a Cowled Wizard either? I think that'd make for very interesting intrigue and dialogue, especially with Irenicus and at the tree of life... maybe it could be one of the guys who wanted to practice spells on Imoen *wink wink*
Atm ther is the Nathaniel mod (if i'm not wrong) that add an wraith former knight to your party in BG2. A cowled wizard is a possible NPC (for BG2 of course), it's a faction, the NPC will be probally from a common humanoid race and he/she will fit the plot.
I'm not against an undead NPC, but to work must be too well done to be used, it's a risk shot to take. Valen mod was great, i really enjoyed that mod, but it's not even close of being good enough to be used as an original content.
@Xavioria I'd argue that point actually. I think it takes less of a suspension of disbelief that a Drow in your party wouldn't be automatically attacked on sight than say a Skeleton Warrior or Death Knight. Viconia obviously keeps herself covered up for the most part (evident in her portrait and through conversation with her in the game). Plus your reputation takes a knock for taking her into your party. Even if she is a Drow I doubt it's considered legal for people to walk up to her and stab her.
When it comes to undead (that are obviously undead to anyone who can see) then it a lot more odd that people don't simply attack you on sight.
But if they can add one and have it work then I wouldn't say no to it.
CHARNAME: Honey, today i want f**k somes nice elven ass. Can you arrange it ? Doppleganger: Sure darling... ** blomp ** Something like this ? CHARNAME: Bigger tits and short hair please. Doppleganger: ** blomp ** Better ? CHARNAME: Damn girl ! You know what i like ! CHARNAME: ... CHARNAME: Can you made three boobs ? Doppleganger: ** blomp ** CHARNAME: I love you...
Well we can cast animate dead on cities and walk with the skeletons , ok i know it's a plot break based on engine limitations of roleplay.
Not every undead would be attacked on sight, as some of them aren't easly recognized. A vampire would be a person of pale skin, for anyone that look at him/her, an death knight would have an malevolent aura and maybe a scent, but no one would understand why and probally people would avoid him.
As i said before, any monster race if not uncompatible with the plot can fill an joinable NPC role, however undead is a very hardcore move to take and must be a well planned add. I have my doubts about undead NPC use, the only thing i'm certain is that only BG2 has a plot good enough to add such an NPC as i see undead NPCs a lot incompatible with BG saga.
So far the best idea I've seen in this thread is the one where Ellen voices a doppelganger NPC. There's all kinds of interesting drama there, what with doppelgangers being instrumental in the Charname's home being infiltrated and abused. But I can see it working out really well.
Some dragons are capable of taking humanoid form. It might make for an interesting npc to have a dragon cursed to remain in human form, or potentially something even funnier, like a halfling or goblin. You could go with the depressed dragon...
"I hate being a halfling. Orcs used to run at the sight of me. Now they see me and think 'hey, it's time for dinner'."
"The next magical sword we get is mine, okay? Right now my dragon's hoard consists of a handful of coins, a few buttons and a ball of lint. For a dragon, that's even more embarrassing than being unable to reach the bar without a stool."
"The witch could've cursed me to be an elf, or a human or something. But nooooo, I had to be a halfling. Now I wake up every morning craving baked goods."
Some dragons are capable of taking humanoid form. It might make for an interesting npc to have a dragon cursed to remain in human form, or potentially something even funnier, like a halfling or goblin. You could go with the depressed dragon...
"I hate being a halfling. Orcs used to run at the sight of me. Now they see me and think 'hey, it's time for dinner'."
"The next magical sword we get is mine, okay? Right now my dragon's hoard consists of a handful of coins, a few buttons and a ball of lint. For a dragon, that's even more embarrassing than being unable to reach the bar without a stool."
"The witch could've cursed me to be an elf, or a human or something. But nooooo, I had to be a halfling. Now I wake up every morning craving baked goods."
One might start to question that story, whether it's actually true or if you just have another madman on your hands. When you go to Spellhold and meet Tiax, you could say "Perhaps we should leave you here on our way out. I think you would get along well with this fellow. Two small folk with delusions of grandeur."
Well a doppleganger would be very very interesting, except for the fact that their special ability to change into other people couldn't really be utilized all that often. Although a doppelgänger npc wouldn't be unwelcome.
I still can't get my head round the idea of a doppelganger NPC. Apart from that I'd much prefer anything else to one of them, I don't think BG1 does much to establish what there are other than bloodthirsty assassins working for Sarevok. I'd feel like a doppelganger (good or bad) as a recruitable NPC would be going against what they were in the original BG1.
Plus from what I've read about their nature and how they survive it seem that coming across a good or at least agreeable doppelganger is rare to the point of being unworkable.
@RedGuard you see, doppelgangers common alignment are normally neutral ones, they're bloodthirsty from a main char's view (or our view) perhaps, but that's only the side the game work the doppels, we "can't" lock the entire lore of doppelgangers in D&D on their behavior in Baldur's Gate (worst, in our view of their behavior in Baldur's Gate).
More than that though, you'd have to base some of that in this game ON the fact that you see them that way in Baldur's Gate. I believe that the only way you're actually going to meet a doppleganger in BG is if they've already been hired to kill you or kill someone else that you have been hired to save.
Granted that there are plenty of Dopplegangers in Durlag's tower, so I could see THAT particular tidbit enough of a reason to have a recruitable one THERE.
I think I'd have to do my research on Dopplegangers in order to be sure if they are the types to decide on their own which is the much more profitable idea... following the PC or getting killed by him/her
there are in fact all the monster and humanoid humas out there, you need just choose another race to discuss instead of waste time hating doppels, the idea is already being worked in another pool thread, so no need to continue doppel talk here.
I'm waiting someone to raise another possibility for a long time, but people appearently enjoy criticize more than construct new ideas.
Another issue for this thread will be gladly wellcome.
My ideas that might fit, these are not in order. 1. Doppleganger(BG 1) http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Doppleganger 2. Mind Flayer(BG 2) http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_flayer 3. Githyanki/Githzerai(ToB?) -> Don't know why they made the Githyanki look so un-human. I know they are, but shouldn't they be pale and about the same size as humans? http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Githyanki http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Githzerai 4. Dragonborn(BG 2) -> Not Skyrim. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dragonborn 5. Vampire(BG2) http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire 1. A Doppleganger, has already been explained. 2. A Mind Flayer, is a very strange, intelligent, yet strange creature. I would propose Something like Varshoon(but different). This character would have a low % chance of killing your characters when you rest(outside of an inn) where intelligence lowers the chance. 3. I would love to fight side by side with a Githyanki warrior or a Githzerai Monk or wizard. Die Illithid scum! We will have our freedom!!!!! 4. Who doesn't want a NPC that strongly hates dragons and is not human in any way shape or form? Yet another slave, just to the dragons. 5. With a vampire, I would propose that over the game, BG2 and ToB, that it's behavior would destabilize and eventually you would get waylaid and attacked in the night. By a very bloodythirsty mindless creature who used to be your buddy.
Comments
It's the best idea I've ever heard, I want a half doppelgänger!!!!!!!!!!
( You can put drows everywhere, drows always make it cooler
I wouldn't mind a monster companion like a Gnoll, Half-ogre etc, but it's largely the same problem in that you have someone who is by and large socially unacceptable and would be likely attacked on sight.
I suppose wolfweres could be included with some modifications to how the 'Puppy Love' quest in Tethir Forest progresses? (it always bothered me that quest didnt have a happy ending... for the wolfweres, not for Safana >:D)
I suggested an doppleganger NPC on the past, so @reedmilfam you have my support here. The game has a lot of dopples and for at least one of them understand that main char is the winning team don't need to take so much effort, does it? Or maybe just any other reason for a doppler join
If anyone cares to make a pool for "Add a doppleganger NPC in BG"... well this person already has my vote.
There's a bunch of original common humanoid NPCs already, so i would really like a monster race for NPC, as said before about Deekin, my opinion apart about the failure that Neverwinter Night was, Deekin the kobold was an awersome NPC (i only saw him in NWN 2 anyway).
In an deep evaluation, apart from a doppelganger or a i would prefer to let monster NPCs to join main char in Baldur's Gate II, as those races can be pretty powerfull to low party campaigns. In Eberrow world set for example, the changelings (the doppelganger related creature of that world) is a playable race.
But that's it, some people will like the idea, others don't, we can't please everyone, so let's move to other possibilities of unique races, as already exist an proper pool for doppelgangers.
@CrazedSlayer NOOO MY FAV CHARACTER :,(
I personally would love an undead character that would join you, preferably one with a hidden agenda (I think all dead people have super secret agendas in this game... Bhaal, Sarevok, Bodhi, it doesn't end), and decided on the PERFECT premise to that end:
TWISTED RUNE!
Why not add a Twisted Rune member to your party who has a mission and could use your help, and ALSO wants to use you to bolster his advance within the Rune (Even though most members don't even know they're working for the rune).
I figure since you can bring in Harpers, Zhents and a Red Wizard, why not a Twisted Rune member?
Of course... how come we can't get a Cowled Wizard either? I think that'd make for very interesting intrigue and dialogue, especially with Irenicus and at the tree of life... maybe it could be one of the guys who wanted to practice spells on Imoen *wink wink*
I'm not against an undead NPC, but to work must be too well done to be used, it's a risk shot to take. Valen mod was great, i really enjoyed that mod, but it's not even close of being good enough to be used as an original content.
When it comes to undead (that are obviously undead to anyone who can see) then it a lot more odd that people don't simply attack you on sight.
But if they can add one and have it work then I wouldn't say no to it.
Not every undead would be attacked on sight, as some of them aren't easly recognized. A vampire would be a person of pale skin, for anyone that look at him/her, an death knight would have an malevolent aura and maybe a scent, but no one would understand why and probally people would avoid him.
As i said before, any monster race if not uncompatible with the plot can fill an joinable NPC role, however undead is a very hardcore move to take and must be a well planned add. I have my doubts about undead NPC use, the only thing i'm certain is that only BG2 has a plot good enough to add such an NPC as i see undead NPCs a lot incompatible with BG saga.
"I hate being a halfling. Orcs used to run at the sight of me. Now they see me and think 'hey, it's time for dinner'."
"The next magical sword we get is mine, okay? Right now my dragon's hoard consists of a handful of coins, a few buttons and a ball of lint. For a dragon, that's even more embarrassing than being unable to reach the bar without a stool."
"The witch could've cursed me to be an elf, or a human or something. But nooooo, I had to be a halfling. Now I wake up every morning craving baked goods."
Plus from what I've read about their nature and how they survive it seem that coming across a good or at least agreeable doppelganger is rare to the point of being unworkable.
Edit: changed "can" to "can't".
Granted that there are plenty of Dopplegangers in Durlag's tower, so I could see THAT particular tidbit enough of a reason to have a recruitable one THERE.
I think I'd have to do my research on Dopplegangers in order to be sure if they are the types to decide on their own which is the much more profitable idea... following the PC or getting killed by him/her
I'm waiting someone to raise another possibility for a long time, but people appearently enjoy criticize more than construct new ideas.
Another issue for this thread will be gladly wellcome.
1. Doppleganger(BG 1)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Doppleganger
2. Mind Flayer(BG 2)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_flayer
3. Githyanki/Githzerai(ToB?) -> Don't know why they made the Githyanki look so un-human. I know they are, but shouldn't they be pale and about the same size as humans?
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Githyanki
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Githzerai
4. Dragonborn(BG 2) -> Not Skyrim.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dragonborn
5. Vampire(BG2)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire
1. A Doppleganger, has already been explained.
2. A Mind Flayer, is a very strange, intelligent, yet strange creature. I would propose Something like Varshoon(but different). This character would have a low % chance of killing your characters when you rest(outside of an inn) where intelligence lowers the chance.
3. I would love to fight side by side with a Githyanki warrior or a Githzerai Monk or wizard. Die Illithid scum! We will have our freedom!!!!!
4. Who doesn't want a NPC that strongly hates dragons and is not human in any way shape or form? Yet another slave, just to the dragons.
5. With a vampire, I would propose that over the game, BG2 and ToB, that it's behavior would destabilize and eventually you would get waylaid and attacked in the night. By a very bloodythirsty mindless creature who used to be your buddy.
What do you guys think?