"Good Enough" HOF Party

Iota

Haeravon does a great job in his FAQ of analyzing what makes an optimized HOF party for IWD, but his treatment of the other classes (whether dual, multi-, single, or kits) tends to put them into broad "optimal" or "not" categories (heavily implying that the "nots" are only worthy of casual runs of the main game). I understand that a Bard is not as good as a Fighter/Mage, and a Fighter/Mage has less potential than a Fighter/Mage/Cleric...but is either the Bard or Fighter/Mage *good enough* for a HOF run?

Sure, six triple-multiclassers might make HOF as easy as possible, but I am also interested in whether or not certain dual or regular multiclassers could reasonably make it through...or if a party of single class/kit characters at (or close to) level cap could survive without too much trouble.

elminster

but is either the Bard or Fighter/Mage *good enough* for a HOF run?

Yes.

Pibaro

Triple classe 30/30/30 is maybe the stongest class ever, but you definitely don't need that for a HoF run.
You can easily (well, maybe not easily, bit it's doable, many people is doing that) start a first level party HoF run, so any party after a full core level run is capable of doing a HoF run.
Bard is very powerful in iwdee. Dual fighter/mage is always a very strong character. A multi fighter/mage is another very good one. All of this classes don't force you to play five core level run before trying a HoF run.

macomeau

Pretty much everything is good enough.

I'm not even convinced a whole party of triple-classes is optimal. Given the dearth of scrolls, it seems there'd be a lot of wizarding that's wasted with six Fighter/Mage/somethings. And a lot of XP wasted on mage levels. Lots of nice weapons that FMCs can't use, either.

At best, a whole party of triple-class characters is probably a power-ish party you don't have to think much about.

Shikao

I will point you to couple discussion where people talk about HoF Parties. These should give you some ideas what is 'good enough'.

HoF Party Questions (Long post - seeking advice)
[HoF Mode]Party setup...
I love my Archer!
Are druids in HoF viable (compared to clerics and other classes)?

Lord_Tansheron

You can beat HoF with basically any conceivable class combination. It may be a lot harder with the 6 Barbarian Unfettered-by-the-confines-of-civilization Brigade, but it'll be possible just the same.

If you don't mind doing a bit of extra work and taking in some extra frustration at times, then don't worry too much about "good enough". Anything is "good enough". But if you're interested in getting some perspective on optimization and the factors that go into it, @Shikao did a really good job providing you with the source material you need to reach your own conclusion.

Remember, HoF may sound intimidating at first, but it's not as comprehensively difficult as say SCS in BG (which basically precludes certain characters from finishing it due to some mechanic changes, iirc you can't technically beat SCS ToB Ascension with a pure fighter). Optimization is a whole metagame in itself, but don't get too hung up on it. Just because one thing is better than another doesn't mean it's REQUIRED, or the only choice. Find something you're HAPPY with and ENJOY first and foremost, and worry about efficiency later (unless of course those things all coincide for you, as they sure do for me :P).

OlvynChuru

Lord_Tansheron said:

You can beat HoF with basically any conceivable class combination. It may be a lot harder with the 6 Barbarian Unfettered-by-the-confines-of-civilization Brigade, but it'll be possible just the same.

A barbarian with the right gear can become almost completely invincible in IWD. Let's see:

Clasp of Bron's Cloak, War Hammer +4: Defender, Bone Marrow Belt, Great Shield +3, Ring of Greater Resistance, and natural barbarian damage resistance means:

105% slashing resistance
55% piercing resistance
65% crushing resistance
25% missile resistance

without any buffs whatsoever.

Add to that the White Dragon Scale Armor (if you are playing HoW early), and yeah.

Audaces

If you put that gear on a Dwarven defender you can get to 100% everything except missile for one turn several times a day, too.

War chant of the Sith will also add a lovely 10% plus 2 hp/round regeneration which would make such character, for all practical purposes, unkillable.

As a funny side note: with slashing resist over 100% you should heal from slashing damage

Lord_Tansheron

Why is it that everyone always has to take my examples literally, instead of appreciating the value of the underlying principle point I was trying to make

If I'd gone with 6 Jesters, I bet someone would've said "Actually, you can get like a hundred high level spell slots with that if they all chain Project Image and..."

Which really only goes to show that ANYTHING is "good enough", I guess.

billygreat

On my first hof run I thought that I must have 2 divine spellcasters and 2 arcane spellcasters so I went with 1 R/C ( cheese version),1 Mage/cleric and 1 bard (plus cavalier , dwarven defender and multi fighter/thief) .

The Mage/cleric was a total waste of party space. Sure, in the prologue was nice to have extra healing power, but as I progressed , not so much. As level 3 spell slots I used no healing spell, only Animate dead ( best summoning IMHO).

Anyway on the second run I replaced the M/C with an archer and my damage output went through the roof. The bard was totally satisfied to get all the scrolls.

Wowo

It might be obvious but the main point that I picked up when designing my HoF party (which I'm really glad that I did) is that in HoF mobs have LOADS of HP.

Consequently, damage output is the number one priority before anything else.

As @Lord_Tansheron‌ points out, everything is good enough. Instead, each decision that you make during party creation is about efficiency and your desire to avoid tedium vs having a unique and interesting party (in your own mind).

jimmysdabestcop

I can say I do like Dual-classes a lot better in HOF. If not you kind of gimp yourself on spell levels. But it def depends on how you want to play and how you want to create a party. The only multiclass I kind of like in HOF is thief/cleric to create the ultimate support character. But I probably use EeKeeper to make it a Swashbuckler/Cleric. Then it kind of rivals the Fighter/cleric. And probably better than a dual Thief/Fighter or Fighter/Thief.

Sorta frees up a party spot so you can bring the Bard or a dual class Kensai --> Mage. Then you really only have to worry about self buff scrolls. Maybe summons or party buff spells. No need for damage based spell scrolls in HOF.

And it depends how you want to handle Arcane magic. I picked a Sorcerer because I just didn't want to deal with scrolls at all.

I went

1. Dwarven Defender
2. Elf Archer

My two best damage dealers with most Kills per chapter and game. Started HOF level 1 I am shocked at how well the Archer performed the entire game. His taco was lowest and always had the most attacks obtainable the quickest.

3. Human Fighter lv 7-->Druid
4. Elf Sorcerer

Probably where I could improve the party if I was looking for my optimal personal party
5. Human Fighter lv 7--> Cleric
6. Swashbuckler lv 5 -- > Fighter

Would really consider Gnome Swashbuckler/Fighter and Human Kensai lv9 -- Mage.

My current #6 just cannot self buff and I was only thinking about locks and traps thats why I dualed at level 5 with the thieve belt locks and traps were over 100%. So even if you need EEKeeper I consider a Gnome swashbuckler/cleric.

Backstabs/Sneak Attacks are too important in my play style. I rather go swashbuckler for Thaco and AC reduction plus 2 pips in short swords and 3 in dual weapons. Cleric can self buff offense and defense. Entropy Shield, DUHM just to name a couple. You are talking 25

Then the Dual Human Kensai Mage can just be a ridiculous melee beast its crazy.