End game Monk

Kromzor

Haven't played BG in like 10yrs... I wanted to play through all 3 games with the same character, i'm lv 6 in BG1 atm, and I just remembered (and confirmed) Monks have an issue with being able to hit some of the bosses in ToB because their fists cap out as +4 magical weapons.

I could equip a weapon, but that would really gimp my Monk seeing as how he can't be hasted, and one of the draws with being Unarmed and missing out on the cool weapons was that Monks got to attack fast enough that they didn't miss Haste that much.

Another thing I THOUGHT was a bug, was Unarmed not benefiting from Single Weapons Style... but it seems to be present in BG1, is it still there in BG2?

FinneousPJ

I don't think there are any enemies that can't be hit by +4. What are you referring to?

Kromzor

I thought I remembered a few of the bosses being immune to +4 weapons, and that was why you needed to craft the "uber" +5 weapons.

FinneousPJ

I know for a fact the final ToB boss can be hit by +4. That's why I'm wondering..

wubble

They probably just cast absolute immunity on themselves. That way they're immune to everything but +6.

elminster

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it. The number of enemies that would be immune to your attacks would be pretty limited and they would all be optional encounters.

Yannir

That only leaves the Lesser Demon Lord in Ust Natha(which you don't have to face) and maybe Demogorgon? Dunno, never fought him.

FinneousPJ

Yeah you're right about the demon lord. I don't remember Demogorgon being immune but it might be I just had +5 weapons all around at that point. Still marginal.

Jarrakul

You can hurt Demogorgon with +4. I know this because my archer did a number on him with the Shortbow of Gesen.

lunar

You can equip a +4 weapon and use greater whirlwind attacks. Your damage output will be a bit better with fists, but it will do for the few enemies that require +4 to hit. AFAIK they are demi liches, demonlord in the drow city, Ravager, Demogorgon, and the end game boss. Don't know if there is another such enemy in the new content added by enhanced edition.

Some mages may cast mantle type spells that make them require +3 or +4 weapons to hit temporarily. Absolute immunity will make the mage immune to all weapons but the very few +6. And protection from magical weapons make the caster flat out immune to all magical weapons, even those legendary ones with +6 enchantment:you can hurt the regular mages with a normal weapon in this state, however, so it is a nice idea to keep an unenchanted weapon of your choice in a bag somewhere. Liches are naturally immune to normal weapons and once they cast protection from magical weapons, no weapon can touch them. They are immune to breach, too. You need to hit them with a very high level dispel magic (Inquisitor dispel works well) or wait out the duration of protection from magical weapons spell, in order to hit them.

FinneousPJ

@lunar Monks get +4

lunar

FinneousPJ said:

@lunar Monks get +4

Oh. Right, but before that level, you can still grab a +4 weapon and attack with it. They don't get good weapon proficiencies for nothing.

Ofcourse if the monk gets +4 fists at the same level he gets GWW HLAs, my point is moot. Apologies ^^'

elminster

lunar said:

Ofcourse if the monk gets +4 fists at the same level he gets GWW HLAs, my point is moot. Apologies ^^'

He doesn't get +4 fists until level 25 (3,825,000xp)

lunar

elminster said:

lunar said:

Ofcourse if the monk gets +4 fists at the same level he gets GWW HLAs, my point is moot. Apologies ^^'

He doesn't get +4 fists until level 25 (3,825,000xp)

Cool! So between 3m xp (first HLA) and 3,825,000 the monk can kill a certain demi lich by using the cheap Staff of Rynn+4 and whirlwind attacks.

Oh wait, monks can't use quarterstaves, right? Okay, bad example, I will remain silent in this topic from now on.

elminster

lunar said:

elminster said:

lunar said:

Ofcourse if the monk gets +4 fists at the same level he gets GWW HLAs, my point is moot. Apologies ^^'

He doesn't get +4 fists until level 25 (3,825,000xp)

Cool! So between 3m xp (first HLA) and 3,825,000 the monk can kill a certain demi lich by using the cheap Staff of Rynn+4 and whirlwind attacks.

Oh wait, monks can't use quarterstaves, right? Okay, bad example, I will remain silent in this topic from now on.

He could still use Daystar. Its not enough of a time frame to worry about too much in my opinion either way. In a 6 person party if you do all the SoA quests 3.8 million is probably what you'll have (in my experience) shortly after the start of ToB.

GamingFreak

+4 Fists are pretty much the end-all for a monk in terms of what he needs. I think the Ravager is probably the only boss you can't hurt with +4 fists but I'm probably wrong here.

EDIT: Forget I said that about scarlet ninja-to, I guess I'm wrong about that.

Jarrakul

The Ravager can be hurt by +4 weapons. Short of buffed mages, the only enemy in the game a high level monk can't hurt is a magic golem. Because magic golems are jerks.

GamingFreak

Wow, so they really can hit pretty much anything then. I thought there was one enemy monks couldn't hit (besides magic golems after level 9) but maybe I'm wrong.

Yannir

@GamingFreak You are not wrong but all those enemies are optional, and you don't have to fight them if you play your cards right.

Though it really doesn't make sense that Demogorgon, the Prince of Demons, can be hit by +4 weapons whereas some almost irrelevant Lesser Demon Lord can't be.

PS. Although, Demogorgon's imprisonment is also non-canon, so maybe I'll give this one a pass.

DullSkullTheSecond

Ever heard of the fists of vecna +6? That should be enough for any immunities

Jarrakul

Yeah, I forgot about the lesser demon lord. Few characters will be able to hurt it when you encounter it, though, monk or not.

xzar_monty

The only thing that needs a +5 weapon to hit is the demi-lich you can get with a bad draw from the deck of many things. Everything else you can hit with +4, provided (of course) they don't cast spells. But that's a different matter.

elminster

xzar_monty said:

The only thing that needs a +5 weapon to hit is the demi-lich you can get with a bad draw from the deck of many things. Everything else you can hit with +4, provided (of course) they don't cast spells.

As others have pointed out uddemon.cre is the lesser demon lord you may encounter during the quest involving adalon's eggs. It can't be hit by a +4 or lower weapons (and that is a permanent immunity).

xzar_monty

@elminster: Indeed. My bad. So there's two. Most players are quite likely to go through the entire saga without encountering either.

Which still means that a monk with +4 fists will hit pretty much anything.

supposedly

xzar_monty said:

@elminster: Indeed. My bad. So there's two. Most players are quite likely to go through the entire saga without encountering either.

Which still means that a monk with +4 fists will hit pretty much anything.

Thankfully including Jaheira

Siona

Honestly, don't worry about it. At that point the monk is going to be a walking, whirlwinding god. You'll have no problem with the 2, iirc, enemies in the whole game you cannot hit. Can also confirm you can 1-hit a dragon.

Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive

DullSkullTheSecond said:

Ever heard of the fists of vecna +6? That should be enough for any immunities

They're located in the same temple where you can find the Head of Vecna, right?

Lord_Tansheron

Build your own Vecna! 1 body part in every temple, no glue required!

Yannir

My lvl 32 monk on BP2: -13 Base AC, 103 MR, Thac0 -9, 11-30 base damage.
Cloak of Balduran gives 25% MR. That and monk's own MR of 78% gives total of 103%.
He doesn't yet have any strenght-enhancing items but I'm planning to get them soon.
Seriously want to see him kick demiliches sky-high but still collecting gear from previous fights.