Do Summon Elemental HLA's become worthwhile in the update?

Kaydubbed

I read that elementals are now much stronger with the new update. Are they now worth taking as Priest HLA for my druid avenger, or should I stick to others? Also, which HLAs should I take by the time I max out?

elminster

"Elemental Summoning" as an ability is still bugged, especially for Fire Elementals. Its really I think the non-HLA elemental summoning spells that benefit from these changes.

Kaydubbed

Thanks for the reply!

What about it makes it bugged?

Also, where can we see the specific changes to the elemental summoning? The change sheet was not specific.

elminster

Short answer: They are weaker than they should be given their level (when compared to other spells that create fire elementals of that same level).


Long answer:
The spell will cast alright, its just that for its description they are weaker than they should be given they are 16 hit dice elementals. When it comes to the fire elementals you summon from it other than their health there isn't anything different when it comes to their stats when compared to a the weakest form of Fire Elemental summoned with the 6th level Conjure Fire Elemental spell (which is a 12 hit dice creature). Basically creatures that should be identical stat wise aren't.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/37947/elemental-summoning-higher-level-ability-should-summon-16-hd-elementals-not-level-12-elementals

The main change to elemental summons was to grant them increased strength based on their level. The biggest change is for fire elementals created using the Conjure Fire Elemental spells, because those spells used to frequently create fire elementals with only 14 or 18 strength (depending on their hit dice they now have either 18, 20, or 23). How high their strength is makes a difference in how often they will hit and the damage they will inflict.

Yannir

I always used this spell, and it was always the 2nd best summon in the game. After planetars and devas, and you can only summon 1 of those. The chance summon Sunnis, Chan or Zaaman-Rul is too good to pass up because they kick even planetar butt.

If they made it work correctly even better.

OlvynChuru

I really like this spell-even if the elementals are weaker than they should be-because it summons two elementals instead of one.

FinneousPJ

Summon Elemental HLA was always worthwhile, wasn't it.

elminster

OlvynChuru said:

I really like this spell-even if the elementals are weaker than they should be-because it summons two elementals instead of one.

Individually the summons should be the same power as a 16hd elemental summon from a lower level spell because they are the same hit dice, the spell only lasts 1 turn and the spell is only accessible for characters with 3 million +xp. Compared that to say Conjure Earth Elemental or Conjure Fire Elemental lasting 1 turn/level and being accessible much earlier.

Yannir

@elminster In most fights, atleast in BP2, the conclusion is decided 5 - 15 seconds into the fight anyway so the shorter duration is not a big loss.

In ToB, summons are mostly optional. Except against Sendai and the final battle.

I did notice they are stronger now, and it's good thing. Made this pretty good ability into a great one.

Kaydubbed

Thanks for the input!

Back to my original question, what HLA should I pick for my avenger? I am dualing with Imoen

elminster

Kaydubbed said:

Thanks for the input!

Back to my original question, what HLA should I pick for my avenger? I am dualing with Imoen

If by "dualing" you mean you are doing a playthrough with just you and Imoen then I would say the two priorities should still be getting Elemental Summoning and Greater Elemental Summoning. The elemental princes have a lot of really great bonuses, including casting dispel magic on an enemy each time they hit, though you can only have one of them out at a time.

Everything else is pretty evenly split.

Energy Blade would be a good spell to have if you are looking for something to throw from a distance. The elemental transformations are decent as well though they are much better if you are part fighter. Mass Raise Dead is good if you want a good mass healing spell.

If Imoen is going to be using Summon Planetar then that reduces the need to take Summon Deva (you can only have one out at any time).

Otherwise outside of the Elemental Transformation abilities all your choices here are still going to end up taking up level 7 spell slots. So there isn't much to be gained over what you already have available (considering that by that point you will have access to level 7 spells like Nature's Beauty, Earthquake, Creeping Doom, and Fire Storm).

Yannir

Elminster pretty much covers it. Keeping in mind that you can't use many of the AoE-spells while using summons. Fire Storm fe. bypasses MR, so it will turn your awesome Planetar ally into your deadliest enemy.

If u wanna go big mean melee machine, try using Aura of Flaming Death+Globe of Blades+Regeneration and Iron Skins, and have Imoen cast Improved Haste on you. Did that with my dualed Ranger/Cleric wielding Crom Faeyr and FoA. Soloed several fights in BP2 using that combo. Not sure if those are all available for druids, though.