Druid slinger through the whole series/first time playing

zerimo

I want to play through as a ranged character that can cast some spells and maybe buffs and the like.

I'm thinking of multiclassing fighter/druid and using slings in the back.

Is this a doable way of playing through both games with expansions for a first-timer, playing on core?

I would like to play as a fighter/cleric using ranged, but with 2 points in 2 weapon style is this a mistake?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

JuliusBorisov

Hello, @zerimo‌ and welcome to the forum!

If it's your first time play, do as you want! Relish the chance! How much would I give away to get that feeling of first-time playing BG...

So, don't hesitate and do as you wish! Try everything you want to do. It will be worth it! I

f while playing you feel you want to change something, you can always roll a new character : ) We all do it every time.

zerimo

bengoshi said:

Hello, @zerimo‌ and welcome to the forum!

If it's your first time play, do as you want! Relish the chance! How much would I give away to get that feeling of first-time playing BG...

So, don't hesitate and do as you wish! Try everything you want to do. It will be worth it! I

f while playing you feel you want to change something, you can always roll a new character : ) We all do it every time.

Thanks, i have played 2 characters and started over and though i only got to level 2 on both i just want to stick to 1 character through the series.

I see your point that i should just roll with it but i still wonder if it's a mistake to go with ranger/cleric slinger.

Thanks.

Chnapy

The ranger cleric is pretty powerful, and so are slings. Just make sure to have a great strength and dexterity if you want to make good use of your weapon, since bgee gives you bonuses from both with slings. The way ad&d ability scores works makes it so you want an 18 in both. That way you should feel your bullets are meaningful even in the last chapters (in bg1, you could get up to 1d4+15 damage along with significant thac0 bonuses (something like +9?) twice per round).

The loss of the two weapon style bonus won't cripple you, don't worry.

Wowo

Hasn't ranger/cleric getting Druid spells been fixed in bg2ee 1.3?

If it has then it's a much closer choice between alternatives like Fighter/Druid (who can use throwing daggers and darts too) and Fighter/Cleric (as you don't have to be half-elf).

Generally when people get the feels for what you want to do they turn to a bow user like a bard or multi/dual Mage.

zerimo

You'

Wowo said:

Hasn't ranger/cleric getting Druid spells been fixed in bg2ee 1.3?

If it has then it's a much closer choice between alternatives like Fighter/Druid (who can use throwing daggers and darts too) and Fighter/Cleric (as you don't have to be half-elf).

Generally when people get the feels for what you want to do they turn to a bow user like a bard or multi/dual Mage.

Why don't you want to be half-elf?

You're right, i never thought about being a bard, aren't they sort of like a fighter/mage/thief multiclass or do they get cleric and druid spells aswell?

A fighter/mage bowman does sound interesting, would you say that good NPC mages are lacking in both BG? Because then i might go with that, if you compare druid/cleric-spells vs. mage-spells? More important/fun?

F/M, F/M/C or R/C all seem like solid classes so i'll probably choose one ot them.

kcwise

A lot of players don't like half-elves because they don't get racial abilities that are seen to be as useful as others (no stat higher than 18, no constitution based save bonuses, etc). There's nothing wrong with the race though.

Mages are pretty well represented by the NPCs in both games, particularly if you're going to have an evil party.

There really isn't a class you can't finish the game with on core (or any other difficulty for that matter). That said, some are more powerful than others, obviously. The ranger/cleric is a solid choice, with no serious drawbacks that should steal any fun away from your first play through. There are certainly quite a few less powerful choices than R/C, so don't worry that you're picking the "worst" class combo.

For a first time I'd suggest avoiding the F/M/C unless you plan to run with a party of four or less. Leveling up will take a long time with a triple class. They can be great for a solo or small party run though.

Wowo

zerimo said:

You'

Wowo said:

Hasn't ranger/cleric getting Druid spells been fixed in bg2ee 1.3?

If it has then it's a much closer choice between alternatives like Fighter/Druid (who can use throwing daggers and darts too) and Fighter/Cleric (as you don't have to be half-elf).

Generally when people get the feels for what you want to do they turn to a bow user like a bard or multi/dual Mage.

Why don't you want to be half-elf?

You're right, i never thought about being a bard, aren't they sort of like a fighter/mage/thief multiclass or do they get cleric and druid spells aswell?

A fighter/mage bowman does sound interesting, would you say that good NPC mages are lacking in both BG? Because then i might go with that, if you compare druid/cleric-spells vs. mage-spells? More important/fun?

F/M, F/M/C or R/C all seem like solid classes so i'll probably choose one ot them.

Half-elf has the most multiclass options available but has the smallest racial perks. In contrast, other races have stat boosts and other perks like saving throw boosts (for short races).

Bards get Mage spells but at a slower rate than mages and miss out on the high level spells. However, they go up in level very fast so their effective caster level for the spells that they do have is a great perk. Bards can use any weapon (except the composite longbow for some stupid reason). Bards have pick pocket. Don't play a bard if you want to feel powerful. Bards in IWD are much stronger. The bard kits are quite good and you end up with very different bards depending on your kit.

Mage spells are more important and it's hard to have too many mages. A FM, FMT and a FMC are all great characters and very strong. I've actually played all three and had a ball with all of them.

lunar

kcwise said:

A lot of players don't like half-elves because they don't get racial abilities that are seen to be as useful as others (no stat higher than 18, no constitution based save bonuses, etc). There's nothing wrong with the race though.

Mages are pretty well represented by the NPCs in both games, particularly if you're going to have an evil party.

There really isn't a class you can't finish the game with on core (or any other difficulty for that matter). That said, some are more powerful than others, obviously. The ranger/cleric is a solid choice, with no serious drawbacks that should steal any fun away from your first play through. There are certainly quite a few less powerful choices than R/C, so don't worry that you're picking the "worst" class combo.

For a first time I'd suggest avoiding the F/M/C unless you plan to run with a party of four or less. Leveling up will take a long time with a triple class. They can be great for a solo or small party run though.

Half elves are very pretty people without being too alien (and androgynous) looking like full elves. I love them. :-) On a more serious note, they have %30 resistance to sleep and charm, but lack the bonuses of full elves like %90 resistance, +1 to hit with sword and bow, and starting 19 dex which does nothing for ac but is a great boost for thieving skills and ranged fighting. If a class can be played by an elf, be an elf, instead of half-elf, it is way better in terms of powergaming. You will not be able to support a sexy scruffy beard like half-elves do, though. (And one particularly hot npc won't romance full blooded elves in bg2!)

Wowo

lunar said:

(And one particularly hot npc won't romance full blooded elves in bg2!)

Who?

lunar

Wowo said:

lunar said:

(And one particularly hot npc won't romance full blooded elves in bg2!)

Who?

Starts with V and ends with iconia, IIRC. She despises the elves, naturally. Unless my memory is wrong and/or they have changed it in bg2:ee

zerimo

Half-elf has the most multiclass options available but has the smallest racial perks. In contrast, other races have stat boosts and other perks like saving throw boosts (for short races).

Bards get Mage spells but at a slower rate than mages and miss out on the high level spells. However, they go up in level very fast so their effective caster level for the spells that they do have is a great perk. Bards can use any weapon (except the composite longbow for some stupid reason). Bards have pick pocket. Don't play a bard if you want to feel powerful. Bards in IWD are much stronger. The bard kits are quite good and you end up with very different bards depending on your kit.

Mage spells are more important and it's hard to have too many mages. A FM, FMT and a FMC are all great characters and very strong. I've actually played all three and had a ball with all of them.

Okay so i've decided on a R/C slinger, just one more question, what are the must-have spells considering i will focus on causing damage with slings and except the most powerful spells will focus on buffs and perks.

I have already chosen Command, Minor heal and Sanctuary.

Thanks

lunar

Remove fear is essential against mages that like using scary spells. And there are a lot.

2nd lvl spells are goodies like hold person:immobilize multiple enemies, silence is very hard to resist and will shut down enemy clerics and mages nicely. Draw upon holy might will take your stats to godly levels if you start with 18 str, dex and con, after lvl 6 it boosts all by +2 and 20 str is very different than 18/x strength, your sling damage will go up considerably.

3rd lvl is the staple and cheapest summoning animate dead, and call lightning can be devastating to enemies as well. Remove paralysis can save lives against ghouls and ghasts.

zerimo

lunar said:

Remove fear is essential against mages that like using scary spells. And there are a lot.

2nd lvl spells are goodies like hold person:immobilize multiple enemies, silence is very hard to resist and will shut down enemy clerics and mages nicely. Draw upon holy might will take your stats to godly levels if you start with 18 str, dex and con, after lvl 6 it boosts all by +2 and 20 str is very different than 18/x strength, your sling damage will go up considerably.

3rd lvl is the staple and cheapest summoning animate dead, and call lightning can be devastating to enemies as well. Remove paralysis can save lives against ghouls and ghasts.

Okay thanks!

Will i be able to choose lower level spells when i level up or is it too late for Remove fear?

lunar

zerimo said:

lunar said:

Remove fear is essential against mages that like using scary spells. And there are a lot.

2nd lvl spells are goodies like hold person:immobilize multiple enemies, silence is very hard to resist and will shut down enemy clerics and mages nicely. Draw upon holy might will take your stats to godly levels if you start with 18 str, dex and con, after lvl 6 it boosts all by +2 and 20 str is very different than 18/x strength, your sling damage will go up considerably.

3rd lvl is the staple and cheapest summoning animate dead, and call lightning can be devastating to enemies as well. Remove paralysis can save lives against ghouls and ghasts.

Okay thanks!

Will i be able to choose lower level spells when i level up or is it too late for Remove fear?

Umm. How can I explain this. Clerics gain all of the spells in particular spell level when they gain levels. Say, your character now knows all of the cleric spells of lvl 1, including remove fear. You can only cast the spells you have prepared/memorised, though. Say, at lvl 1 you know 15 lvl 1 cleric spells and can cast three of them. (With bonus spells from high wisdom) you can choose to prepare three cure light wounds, OR, for example, one cure light wound, one command and one remove fear, or any combination you want, up to a total of your daily memorisation limit. You can choose and change your memorised spells any time you want. You just need to rest to be able to cast the newly selected/memorised spells. Which can be dangerous in dungeons and wilderness areas as enemies gang up on you when you try to sleep out in the open!

Mages (and starting from lvl 2, bards as well) work like that, too, except they don't gain new spells each lvl, they need to find spell scrolls and write the scroll into their books, this is THE only way they can learn new spells. Once learned, they can fill up their memorisation spell slots from the spells they know, just like clerics do.

Sorcerers are totally different, they don't learn from scrolls, they don't fill up memorisation slots, they choose to learn a new spell at each lvl up, and can cast a number of spells from each spell level. Say. A lvl 1 sorcerer knows two spells, and can cast three of them, he can cast any combination of the two spells three times, they don't need to prepare or memorise spell beforehand. This makes them versatile in spontaneous casting but very limited in actual spell knowledge. A mage needs to prepare identify spells to use them, but when he finds himself up against an enemy he may wish he had prepared a damage spell like burning hands (the other spel in his book) instead! A sorcerer who knows both spells can choose to cast either identify or burning hands on the spot. However a mage can learn every spell in the game and can re-arrange his memorised spells at every rest to suit the needs of the quest/area at hand. A sorcerer is forever limited to the spells he has learned at lvl up, and they are few (up to five spells per spell level at higher levels) but he can cast them more repeatedly. They are forever the practitioners, not the know-it-all expert.

So as a cleric you need to prepare the correct spells for each day. If you know you are up against a mage soon, prepare and buff with remove fear, so the mage can't horror your party. If your party is in bad shape, fill up your slots with all cure wounds spell to act as the walking first aid kit. If you are in an area infested by giant spiders, prepare slow poison spells (lvl 2 spell) to save the lives of your companions. And if you are skirmishing in an open area (not an underground cave or dungeon!) memorise call lightning (lvl 3 spell) to blast your enemies to dust. (Call lightning does not work in indoors or dungeons)

zerimo

lunar said:

zerimo said:

lunar said:

Remove fear is essential against mages that like using scary spells. And there are a lot.

2nd lvl spells are goodies like hold person:immobilize multiple enemies, silence is very hard to resist and will shut down enemy clerics and mages nicely. Draw upon holy might will take your stats to godly levels if you start with 18 str, dex and con, after lvl 6 it boosts all by +2 and 20 str is very different than 18/x strength, your sling damage will go up considerably.

3rd lvl is the staple and cheapest summoning animate dead, and call lightning can be devastating to enemies as well. Remove paralysis can save lives against ghouls and ghasts.

Okay thanks!

Will i be able to choose lower level spells when i level up or is it too late for Remove fear?

Umm. How can I explain this. Clerics gain all of the spells in particular spell level when they gain levels. Say, your character now knows all of the cleric spells of lvl 1, including remove fear. You can only cast the spells you have prepared/memorised, though. Say, at lvl 1 you know 15 lvl 1 cleric spells and can cast three of them. (With bonus spells from high wisdom) you can choose to prepare three cure light wounds, OR, for example, one cure light wound, one command and one remove fear, or any combination you want, up to a total of your daily memorisation limit. You can choose and change your memorised spells any time you want. You just need to rest to be able to cast the newly selected/memorised spells. Which can be dangerous in dungeons and wilderness areas as enemies gang up on you when you try to sleep out in the open!

So as a cleric you need to prepare the correct spells for each day. If you know you are up against a mage soon, prepare and buff with remove fear, so the mage can't horror your party. If your party is in bad shape, fill up your slots with all cure wounds spell to act as the walking first aid kit. If you are in an area infested by giant spiders, prepare slow poison spells (lvl 2 spell) to save the lives of your companions. And if you are skirmishing in an open area (not an underground cave or dungeon!) memorise call lightning (lvl 3 spell) to blast your enemies to dust. (Call lightning does not work in indoors or dungeons)

Thanks for taking your time to answer, i think i understand how it works now.

Is the memorization limited to 3 or does it rise as you level up?

jackjack

It rises as you level up.

lunar

jackjack said:

It rises as you level up.

Yeah, it rises as you lvl up, and roughly after every two lvl ups, you will gain access to a higher lvl of spells. You start with lvl 1 spells, when your cleric class hits lvl 3, level 2 spells will appear on your priest scroll. (Click on the number 2 atop the priest scroll or use left-right arrow buttons near the scroll menu to switch between spell levels.) you can now memorise lvl 2 spells in addition to your regular lvl 1 spells. At cleric level 5, lvl 3 spells will be available, you will be able to cast more lvl 1 and 2 spells, as you master them at that point, and also start with a few lvl 3 spell castings. Consult spell progression charts and tables in the game manual to see how your cleric will progress in spell casting throughout the game. You should be able to rise up to level enough to cast level four cleric spells in bg1. In bg2, you will be able to cast up to powerful lvl 7 cleric spells, and when you hit 3 million xp, you will receive quest spells:these will use your lvl 7 spell memorisation slots but will be very powerful, gifts from the gods to the most devout/succesfull clerics.

zerimo

lunar said:

Yeah, it rises as you lvl up, and roughly after every two lvl ups, you will gain access to a higher lvl of spells. You start with lvl 1 spells, when your cleric class hits lvl 3, level 2 spells will appear on your priest scroll. (Click on the number 2 atop the priest scroll or use left-right arrow buttons near the scroll menu to switch between spell levels.) you can now memorise lvl 2 spells in addition to your regular lvl 1 spells. At cleric level 5, lvl 3 spells will be available, you will be able to cast more lvl 1 and 2 spells, as you master them at that point, and also start with a few lvl 3 spell castings. Consult spell progression charts and tables in the game manual to see how your cleric will progress in spell casting throughout the game. You should be able to rise up to level enough to cast level four cleric spells in bg1. In bg2, you will be able to cast up to powerful lvl 7 cleric spells, and when you hit 3 million xp, you will receive quest spells:these will use your lvl 7 spell memorisation slots but will be very powerful, gifts from the gods to the most devout/succesfull clerics.

I see, but now i have a few more questions:

Is there a level cap in BG1, if there is what happens to the rest of the XP?

Also, will i only be able to memorize spells from the same spell-levels, or can i pick and choose among all my spells?

Chnapy

There is indeed a lvl cap, or in fact an xp cap. All xp past 161000 will simply disappear and your characters will stop progressing. This allows multiclassed clerics, rangers and warriors to go up to lvl 7 and druids up to lvl 8 (though that doesn't make a really big difference, since there is no new spell lvl unlocked at lvl 8).
Building around the xp cap, a dual classed warrior/druid could even be lvl 7/9 (and have access to a single grand mastery) but dualing at lvl 7 is a pain for like a half of the game. This, and stats required in order to dual to druid are quite ludicrous (17 wisdom, 17 charisma).

You get a certain amounts of spell slots in which you can memorize spells for each spell level, depending on your level. Each spell slot can only be used to memorize spells of his level, meaning you can't even put a first-level heal into a second-level spell slot. High wisdom also gives you bonus slots at certain spell levels.

jackjack

The XP doesn't actually disappear. While there is a soft cap of 161K in BGEE, so you won't level up beyond that point, the extra XP is still silently recorded and will transfer with your character upon importing him or her into BG2EE.

zerimo

jackjack said:

The XP doesn't actually disappear. While there is a soft cap of 161K in BGEE, so you won't level up beyond that point, the extra XP is still silently recorded and will transfer with your character upon importing him or her into BG2EE.

What level is 161K at?

Something that i don't understand is that if you look at Howlongtobeat.com baldurs gate with sidequests alone is around 57 hours and TOTSC is 19 hours, while BGEE which includes the expansion is only 47 hours long, it should land at almost 80 hours..

Have they shortened it or what happened?

CField17

You can also install a level cap remover fairly easily. Try a search of the forum if you're interested.

jackjack

What level you can get to depends on your class.
Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, & Clerics: Level 8
Mages & Sorcerers: Level 9
Thieves, Bards, & Druids: Level 10
Multiclassed characters obviously don't level up as much as they have to split XP evenly between their classes.
Dual classing throws a wrench into things. At that point, it depends on when you change and what classes are involved.

pixie359

zerimo said:

jackjack said:

The XP doesn't actually disappear. While there is a soft cap of 161K in BGEE, so you won't level up beyond that point, the extra XP is still silently recorded and will transfer with your character upon importing him or her into BG2EE.

What level is 161K at?

Something that i don't understand is that if you look at Howlongtobeat.com baldurs gate with sidequests alone is around 57 hours and TOTSC is 19 hours, while BGEE which includes the expansion is only 47 hours long, it should land at almost 80 hours..

Have they shortened it or what happened?

It is slightly longer now if you include all content, as new party members have quests. I guess the difference in time quoted is either that they were looking at different versions of 'beat' - complete the main story, or complete every little sidequest. Otherwise, it was just different people giving their estimate, which will vary by skill, difficulty level, party composition and game knowledge.

zerimo

pixie359 said:

zerimo said:

jackjack said:

The XP doesn't actually disappear. While there is a soft cap of 161K in BGEE, so you won't level up beyond that point, the extra XP is still silently recorded and will transfer with your character upon importing him or her into BG2EE.

What level is 161K at?

Something that i don't understand is that if you look at Howlongtobeat.com baldurs gate with sidequests alone is around 57 hours and TOTSC is 19 hours, while BGEE which includes the expansion is only 47 hours long, it should land at almost 80 hours..

Have they shortened it or what happened?

It is slightly longer now if you include all content, as new party members have quests. I guess the difference in time quoted is either that they were looking at different versions of 'beat' - complete the main story, or complete every little sidequest. Otherwise, it was just different people giving their estimate, which will vary by skill, difficulty level, party composition and game knowledge.

Oh that's true, didn't think of that.

So a few more questions:
Do i need to have good partymembers since i am good and does it affect anything if i have an evil partymember?

Should i aim at having as few partymembers as possible to gain more XP?

As a ranger/cleric i guess i will at least need a tank, a mage, and a thief to have a allround party right?

I was thinking imoen as thief/ranged but after that i don't know.
Since i'm a ranger is Jaheira even worth keeping?

For tanks i've already got Khalid, Minsc and Kagain and i think that i only want to keep one them, i'll decide later.
The thing i'm wondering about the most is mages?

Any advice is appreciated and yes i know that is isn't crucial to sit for 20 minutes figuring out partymembers, i just want an allround party.

Thanks.

lunar

Answers to your questions:

-If you do too many good deeds and your party reputation hits 19 or 20, evil npcs in your party will get angry and leave forever. Some evil npcs will conflict with other npcs in your party, and they may decide to fight to death, even. If you do evil deeds to please them, and your rep drops too low, good npcs will get angry and leave, you will be a fallen ranger and lose your class abilities forever, and you will become a wanted criminal and the law of the land will chase your head. And every shopkeeper will charge you a lot of gold for even the simplest purchase. Some quests will not be open to you.

-It is your call, but for a first time player, having six people is better IMHO, that's six actions per round, a great tactical advantage! A party of three will be a lvl higher but can only cast three spells, attack 3 targets, etc. in a given round. Expert players often solo the game and it is a fun and fundementally different way of playing.

-You can be the tank and the healer, as needed, so a mage and thief is really needed. Ranged attackers are very good in bg1, so having one or two determined archer is excellent, too. Kivan and Coran are excellent picks for this role. Coran can also sub for thievery and Kivan can scout, and dish some melee damage thanks to his big strength, as well.

-Imoen is excellent as a thief and support archer. She is nowhere as good as the serious archers like Kivan or Coran, though. She can also dual class into mage, if you wish, but that is a complicated mechanic that requires some tedious planning, so you may leave it to another play through.

-Jaheira is rather limited in usefulness in bg1, thanks to her horrible dex score. She can't tank well, and is not good at ranged fight either. She is best at support healer and as a defense line in between your tanks, and archer-mage characters. Khalid is versatile and useful, you can master longswords with him, give him full plate and a magical shield and he will do well as a tank. There are more powerful options in the game, however this duo is the most trustworthy and easiest to please.

-One mage is enough for the party, if you have Minsc and want to keep him you will save Dynaheir, eventually. She is a capable mage but she can't cast useful, battle stopper spells like sleep and charm person. There is also Xan, who is the exact opposite, can master all enchantment spells but can't cast fireballs. It is easily redeemable though since there are a lot of fireball wands in the game and Xan can use them just as well. Other mages are evil and may not be suitable for your party at all. And then there is Neera. She is rather...well, I will let you find out about her yourself, it must be a surprise. Or a series of surprises, rather.. ^^

Pibaro

jackjack said:

The XP doesn't actually disappear. While there is a soft cap of 161K in BGEE, so you won't level up beyond that point, the extra XP is still silently recorded and will transfer with your character upon importing him or her into BG2EE.

Is this really true?
This could be a huge "confession of a Bhaalspawn"!!!
I had never noticed it!!
Does it work both importing from a savegame and from a character file?

Chnapy

Note that Imoen can also be dual classed unto a mage.
If you start by raising only her "find traps", you can have it at 100 (sufficient for every single traps in the game) at lvl 4 , which is 5000 xp for a thief. If you dual her right after that, you will get your trap-finder back at 25000 xp (lvl 4 rogue + lvl 5 mage) and afterwards, you'll have a mage who is only slightly lower in xp (max lvl remains the same), and can also disarm any traps in the game, and use short-bows/crossbows.

The others thieving duties can be assured by Coran, who is basically an amazing archer and an ok thief, with just a little weakness in traps finding (that's why you focus on that with imoen).

Now that's not something I would recommend for a "first timer, playing on core". Having some knowledge about where you'll need find traps and where you can earn some easy xp really helps. But it's possible, and imo one of the most powerful way to get both a thief and a mage in a good party.

If you want to do something simpler, Dynaheir is your best bet indeed, though her kit means she shan't ever cast enchantments. If you decide against rescuing her, you will also have to bid farewell to Minsc, as he will not tolerate that his sorceress and friend is left at the gnolls' mercy. You can also not take any mage at all and rely solely on support given by secondary casters, such as bards. You won't access the migthiest spells, like cloudkill, and you will generally have less spells, but you will cast most of these at a slightly more powerful level due to some second-edition-DnD bullshit. And bards can use ranged weapons that aren't slings, wear armours when they don't have any spells anymore, have ridiculously high Lore values, meaning they can identify lots of items just by looking at them and can also pickpocket like pros. Oh, also, they sing, but I wouldn't recommend it. Garrick is an okay bard (well, his stats are terrible, and you will find that learning spells is a pain in the ass, but apart from that he's cool. At least he has some dex) and can be found really early.

Also your tanks are cool, and if you want a bit more holy firepower you'll probably meet a fighter/cleric at some point that can tank just as well as a fighter.

zerimo

Chnapy said:

Note that Imoen can also be dual classed unto a mage.
If you start by raising only her "find traps", you can have it at 100 (sufficient for every single traps in the game) at lvl 4 , which is 5000 xp for a thief. If you dual her right after that, you will get your trap-finder back at 25000 xp (lvl 4 rogue + lvl 5 mage) and afterwards, you'll have a mage who is only slightly lower in xp (max lvl remains the same), and can also disarm any traps in the game, and use short-bows/crossbows.

The others thieving duties can be assured by Coran, who is basically an amazing archer and an ok thief, with just a little weakness in traps finding (that's why you focus on that with imoen).

Now that's not something I would recommend for a "first timer, playing on core". Having some knowledge about where you'll need find traps and where you can earn some easy xp really helps. But it's possible, and imo one of the most powerful way to get both a thief and a mage in a good party.

If you want to do something simpler, Dynaheir is your best bet indeed, though her kit means she shan't ever cast enchantments. If you decide against rescuing her, you will also have to bid farewell to Minsc, as he will not tolerate that his sorceress and friend is left at the gnolls' mercy. You can also not take any mage at all and rely solely on support given by secondary casters, such as bards. You won't access the migthiest spells, like cloudkill, and you will generally have less spells, but you will cast most of these at a slightly more powerful level due to some second-edition-DnD bullshit. And bards can use ranged weapons that aren't slings, wear armours when they don't have any spells anymore, have ridiculously high Lore values, meaning they can identify lots of items just by looking at them and can also pickpocket like pros. Oh, also, they sing, but I wouldn't recommend it. Garrick is an okay bard (well, his stats are terrible, and you will find that learning spells is a pain in the ass, but apart from that he's cool. At least he has some dex) and can be found really early.

Also your tanks are cool, and if you want a bit more holy firepower you'll probably meet a fighter/cleric at some point that can tank just as well as a fighter.

Thanks for all your answers!
Is it really necessary to even have a thief in your party? Pickpocketing, stealing, hiding and then backstab etc has never really been my style of play except maybe in games like Skyrim.
Could i just put some points in Find traps with Imoen and then dual class her?

If so and even though i haven't decided quite yet but from what answers i was given i think my party will look something like:
Hero: Heal, caster, ranged
Imoen: Mage, ranged
Coran or Kivan: Ranged
Minsc, Kagain or/and Khalid: Tanks

As i understand it, i can have a full party and still get to highest levels in the endgame of each game?

Thanks!

zerimo

zerimo said:

Chnapy said:

If so and even though i haven't decided quite yet but from what answers i was given i think my party will look something like:
Hero: Heal, caster, ranged
Imoen: Mage, ranged
Coran or Kivan: Ranged
Minsc, Kagain or/and Khalid: Tanks

Another question:
Will Imoen be a good enough mage to cover the mandatory stuff if i dual-class her when she has good enough points in Lockpick and Find traps?

If not i will probably get another mage and leave one of the tanks behind.