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Character got ability damage right in intro (-1 Con) and I cannot dispel it

MarkusBRMarkusBR Member Posts: 8
Hey there,

In the PC version, my Fighter/Cleric/Mage somehow got her Constitution dropped from 18 to 17 (red in character screen). I tried resting for days, casting Remove Curse and Dispel Magic on her... Nothing seems to work.

It seems bugged. Specially that I certainly got the ability damage somehow in the intro (goblins, orc cave, shaman).

Can someone please help me? This is very disturbing, to know I can get ability damage without even noticing it and not being able to remove it. :- ((

Thank you!
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Comments

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Did your familiar die?
  • MrGoodkatMrGoodkat Member Posts: 167
    My condolences.
  • MarkusBRMarkusBR Member Posts: 8
    edited January 2015
    LOL you were right! She had a Familiar! I recast it and recovered a few hit points... But something is wrong.
  • MarkusBRMarkusBR Member Posts: 8
    I should say: I regained some Hit Points but my Con is still red and at -1 (17 from 18). o.0

    Is there a way to fix it?
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Open your saved game with EEKeeper and remove the effect with opcode number 10 (Constitution Bonus).
  • molloymolloy Member Posts: 105
    Pibaro said:

    Do as @CrevsDaak‌ says, but it's not a bug, it works as intended.
    In the future you have to be very careful with your familiar.

    That's why the CON-penalty is such a terrible idea. Because the penalty is way to harsh, you pretty much are forced to put your familiar into the inventory. So instead of giving you a familiar, the spell only exchanges a little bit of inventory space for a few hit points.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    molloy said:

    Pibaro said:

    Do as @CrevsDaak‌ says, but it's not a bug, it works as intended.
    In the future you have to be very careful with your familiar.

    That's why the CON-penalty is such a terrible idea. Because the penalty is way to harsh, you pretty much are forced to put your familiar into the inventory. So instead of giving you a familiar, the spell only exchanges a little bit of inventory space for a few hit points.
    It's a fine idea.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    death should have consequences was the design decision it would seem
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Someone on the D&D design team had a traumatic hamster experience.

    IT EXPLAINS SO MUCH!
  • molloymolloy Member Posts: 105
    lunar said:

    Well in pnp if the familiar died, along with con loss, the caster had to roll vs death and couldn't summon another familiar for 1 year. So actually the game is very lenient.

    While it may be lenient in comparison to the even crazier pnp-rules, that still doesn't mean it's lenient in itself, or within the frame of the game we're talking about here.
    The point is the rule discourages the use of the familiar as familiar by penalizing the death of this very frail thing by something harder than any other penalty except for permanent death. As I said, while it's very easy to avoid this, it transforms this spell to another, much less interesting spell and therefore I really can't see any wisdom in this design decision.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Yeah, there's a reason that subsequent editions did away with that penalty.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited January 2015
    Pibaro said:

    Familiar death => permanent -1 con
    NPC death and resurrection => no penalty
    NPC petrification and stone to flesh => no penalty
    Character (or NPC) level drain and restoration => no penalty
    Arcane magic user or Divine magic user casting very high level spell => no penalty

    I don't think it's fair!!!

    NPC Death = >
    - From a RP perspective = BIG penalty. The loss of a friend
    - From a Game play perspective = Loss of companion until you can get to temple or other method of resurrection, often involving the loss of a one time use magic item and/or significant gold

    Not really sure what the rest of those entrants have any relevance to the topic at hand.

    At the end of the day, if you saved the game prior to putting your familiar in jeopardy, merely reload. This is the definition of no penalty.

    Considering that a level 1 spell gives a wizard a permanent gain of 2-3X their starting hit points AND a companion that at early levels can take out wolves and gibberlings and other minor creatures. AND can pick pockets/remove traps and scout the area, I think that SOME kind of penalty is warranted for a 1st level spell THAT powerful. Compare that to sleep or magic missile? No contest.

    edited for tone.
    Post edited by the_spyder on
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    @the_spyder‌ I kindly disagree with you.

    First of all; I'm not very confident with my English, so usually I don't write long posts, that's why sometimes the may look cryptic.
    But this time I'll try my best to explain.

    I'm talking about the decision they made long time ago, when they put familiars into bg2.
    At that time you couldn't cast them in bg1, so, even if it's a first level spell, it's not so powerful.
    When you start bg2 you are already very close to being able to cast spell like raise dead. And you can decide to use someone like Minsc as an expendable, very powerful and reckless scout. Even if he dies every few hours, who cares if you are able to resurrect him without any penalties?
    In pnp raise dead gives -1 con. I'm quite sure there's a penalty for stone to flash. I don't remember about level drain, but when it happened to my character, I've never recivered everything (maybe it was my DM).
    Many high level spell are tough for the caster. He will lose something when he casts one of them (speed makes you loose one year of life, raise dead or restoration make him unable to do anything for a long time), you don't simply ask someone how much gold they cost.

    About roleplaying, the same loss you feel when your friend dies, you feel when your pet dies.

    I'm not saying they should change that penalty, again I'm only saying it's weird they implemented permanent penalties only when your familiar dies.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    To be fair, all forms of resurrection except reincarnation (it's penalty is that you come back as a random creature) are supposed to reduce your Con by 1 as well (in addition to a survival roll based on Con score to determine if you can be raised at all which gets progressively harder if you die a lot or had poor con to begin with).

    And even if you go by the more lenient 3rd edition version you still permanently lose a level when raised (unless lvl 1, which loses 1 Con).

    It's more the player/npc rez options are too lenient rather then Find familiar being too hard.

    But, you get 2 levels or so worth of bonus hp and access to extra abilities/spells (depending on the familiar in question), so they're well worth the bag slot, IMO.

    And keep in mind......the evil and good familiars aren't even supposed to be choices until like lvl 6 or 8, depending. And you're supposed to be able to choose your familiar, not be arbitrarily given one. Common animal familiars can be used by any alignment (and have no level requirement), while demons and lesser dragons do have alignment restrictions but also require minimum lvls of like 6 or as high as 9 before you should be able to get one. Mephits are just elemental spirits and require min 6 but have no alignment restriction because they're neutral.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018


    And keep in mind......the evil and good familiars aren't even supposed to be choices until like lvl 6 or 8, depending. And you're supposed to be able to choose your familiar, not be arbitrarily given one. Common animal familiars can be used by any alignment (and have no level requirement), while demons and lesser dragons do have alignment restrictions but also require minimum lvls of like 6 or as high as 9 before you should be able to get one. Mephits are just elemental spirits and require min 6 but have no alignment restriction because they're neutral.

    One minor correction on this. WAY back in 'Advanced' when a wizard casts Find Familiar, he spent 100 gold (a wopping lot for a level 1 character) on components and went into the woods to cast the spell. He cast it and a random creature came. Mechanically, the DM rolls D20. Any result from 1-14 resulted in a random familiar (not chosen as listed above). DM rolled a Rat, you got a rat. DM rolled a ferret (I did this once) and that is what you got. If the DM rolled a 15 EXACTLY (yup, 1 in 20 chance), you got a special familiar based on alignment. If the roll was 16-20, you got NOTHING and had to wait a whole year to try again. 20% failure rate was brutal.

    Subsequent editions may have changed this to what was described, but for us old fogies, it was a die roll.

    But yes, thanks very much @ZanathKariashi for pointing out what the resurrection penalties were. And if you played an Elf, you couldn't get brought back at all.

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Elves could be resurrected (by the 7th level spell), but not raised (the 5th level). Which IWD actually implemented if memory serves...or at least the first one. I haven't died in EE yet to see.

    And you need a cleric high enough and wise enough to cast 7th level spells, AND one willing to eat the 10 years of life lost* per cast in addition to being to tired to cast for a week afterward.

    *spells that reduce life span do so for every 100 years of average life span of the race in question, with a minimum of 100.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Really? I must be getting old, because I always remembered that if the Elf in the party died, that was it. I want to say the reason was because they had spirits rather than souls, or some such. However we played a low level campaign so we would never have encountered anyone powerful enough to cast 7th level. Therefore maybe the circumstances just never came up. Shame really because Zepher, our elven archer/scout could have used that little loop hole when he failed to surprise that bugbear with split second halberds. Or was it just split? either way...

    A lot of the 'costs' of higher level spells simply didn't make it into BG. I seem to remember reading that certain spells required sacrificing of 1000 gp gems every time you cast and others required specifically prepared components. I guess for a video game, it did it's best. And at least they didn't implement food. it took months for my wizard to condition the dwarf in the party to carry his rations. Good old 'Baggage Carrier'. I miss him.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,154
    No doubt the implementation of a lot of spells is very different from PNP!
    I do remember Resurrection worked on Elves, but the common wisdom was you would NEVER find an NPC cleric or temple willing to cast it for you. The cost (years of life) was just too great. So until your party had its own 14+ level cleric, the elves needed to play it safe! And as Spyder suggests, 14 is a very high level. In 30+ years of gaming I've only ever been a part of two parties tha got ANY characters up to those sort of levels (not included characters or parties that were designed to be high level from the start).

    Restoration and Haste both had aging penalties too, which meant neither spell was used much. And there are many other spells with VERY expensive material components that will only be cast in very special circumstances.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    I remember that the aging factor for haste was originally factored into the original Gold Box Pool of Radiance. Your characters could age quite considerably if you weren't careful. However, they also implemented 2 (3?) potions of longevity as well, I want to say they weren't until Silverblades though. At the end of the series, my 'veteran' group were all in their late 50s, and my 20-something level Wizard was in his teens. it was quite fun.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited January 2015
    I dunno, ToEE did a good job of implement costly components to it's spells and did wonders for curbing the exploitation of magic in general (not to mention the RIDICULOUSLY high encounter chance while resting which could result in creatures that could easily wipe the party).

    And even one of the quests gave you a feeling of what it was like in play in a PnP setting, when you needed to track down a Heal spell, for a quest. The local priest wasn't powerful enough to cast it, so you had to seek out one else where to get the spell you required, and they required you to do a rather difficult favor in exchange for it since you weren't a member of their faithful. (to be honest it's a small miracle in itself that you can find any priests willing to heal you for gold, especially for things above 2nd or 3rd level, given that they normally reserve their spells for their own faithful first and with a few exceptions, generally won't even sell their power to others).

    Even the humble identify spell had a costly component (and reduced your Constitution by like 8 for 24 hours), depending on how accurate you wanted the spell to be. A bardic lore equivalent check (would reveal one property of the item, if successful (had a 10% success chance per level to a maximum of 90%)) cost 100 gold, where as a BG style identify cost like 500 gold to reveal all properties. (which is part of why the ease of identifying items is ridiculous, even if you had multiple castings of identify, the con penalty would still restrict you to one or two per day, and glasses of identification only worked at the 1 property setting and still take give you the con penalty).

    yeah, that's why level drain was such a big deal in PnP. It wasn't a minor annoyance like in BG, it was difficult to protect against and extremely difficult to remove to the point most people just said %^&$ it and gained the level back through adventuring rather then trying to find someone willing to fix it.
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