Undead Hunter gets diseased? Really? REALLY?

Sharguild

Of the many times I've played this series (and all the other Black Isle games) I've never ran an UH before.
Figured with this shiny new edition out now, time to give one a whirl.
Imagine my SHOCK ( go ahead, imagine, I'll give ya a minute) to discover they can be diseased!
Diseased, by undead, an Undead Hunter.

"Congrats Frank! you are now a full fledged Undead Hunter. Get out there and whoop their asses!"
"Thanks prof, any hints?"
" Well you know you are immune to their level drain..."
"Uh huh"
"And they can't hold you in place and suck yer blood or eat yer entrails..."
"Right"
Oh but watch out for their disease ability, especially ghasts"
"You are kidding, did I sleep in that day of class? You mean one of their ugliest abilities is gonna make me about as useful as a gnome barbarian and I have no resistance?"
"Uh yeah, budget cuts, we nixed that from the course last year. Know any hot elven Cleric chicks?"

COME ON!

Of all the bloody stupid abilities to nerf. Disease on an UH. Dang it Billy-Jo Bob vanilla Pally down the street that can't even spell ghast has resistance. So I guess Blight is gonna rain on my parade as well.

Mumbles not-nice-words and stomps off to the fridge for a beer. Kicks cat just because....

elminster

Its based on the ghosthunter kit in PnP which doesn't get it. But yea I agree with you. Its especially bizarre in IWDEE.

TheArtisan

That is... exceptionally weird. Shouldn't all paladins by default gain disease immunity at, what, level 3?

lunar

Artemius_I said:

That is... exceptionally weird. Shouldn't all paladins by default gain disease immunity at, what, level 3?

They should be immune to normal diseases, but ghast's disease is just a revolting stench giving penalties to your rolls. However paladins are not immune to magically created diseases, like mummy rot, which is like both a curse and disease, and ofcourse, the dreaded lycantrophy affliction. Coding this correctly will be difficult in game, though.

sarevok57

I thought paladins were immune to disease, especially in IWD, infact from way back in the day the advantage of being a paladin was being immune to the mummies disease, maybe it's something they took out, infact I'm kind of remembering in SoA in the cult of the unseeying dungeon in ghoul town, my cavalier being immune to the effects of disease ( im assuming it was from a mummy) although this was years ago mind you so I don't know if it stays true

Sharguild

Hi Lunar;
Not sure if I follow what you infer. We're not talking a case of chicken-pox picked up in Walmart, Biloxi here.
What pray tell would a "normal" disease in Faerun be?
It's a place where magically created diseases I suggest are the NORM.

Elminsters' description had me pull out my books and yes, the "Ghost Hunter" does not have that ability but don't get me started on what unique abilities he DOES have that they elected not to implement.
Anyway, the imposition is far from a game changer but I still suggest it is ridiculous.
An UH would certainly enter the field with wards if not innate ability to counter disease from ghasts, mummy rot and the like. Lycanthropy I put on a different scale but indeed it is a disease affliction.
The whole oversight sure took me by surprise though.

I played a vanilla Paladin for runs through the IWD vanilla series more than once and assuredly he laughed at mummies.
Looks like my UH in IWDee will need a bit more caution.

edit - btw - the Inquisitor does not have, as identified in his description, the ability to cure disease. Does he have innate prevent disease? what about the Cavalier? I have yet to play these kits.

jackjack

The only three Paladins worth a damn in IWDEE are Cavalier, Blackguard, and Vanilla, in that order.
That said, the other two kits have great RP potential, (Inquisitor could be banished to Icewind Dale by a powerful Mage, Undead Hunter because duh), so there's no need to avoid them altogether.
Only my opinion, course.

Sharguild

Hi Jackjack; funny, I would imagine the Blackguard would think of the Vale as more of a winter cottage than an area of conquest and exploit. he'd be right at home with old Kressy.

Merina

That's one of the good things about the classes. Strengths and weaknesses combined. This makes the Baldur's Gate series more fun.

The danger of getting diseased fits very well into a party role-playing context, too, ... with its necessity to be at least a bit careful when encountering undead. Don't whack them all too blindly since you may get in touch with their diseased blood.

If one doesn't always want over-powered heroes with only "the best" weapon for each class, there are some funny combinations, such as a heavily armored fire-protected paladin wearing the Harbringer. Until, of course, +3 isn't enough.

GamingFreak

Artemius_I said:

That is... exceptionally weird. Shouldn't all paladins by default gain disease immunity at, what, level 3?

This ain't no pnp/3E.

One of the many reasons to roll a paladin was for those free immunities, but BG/IWD pallys don't get it. They get Cure Disease instead, which is easy to just cast on yourself since disease generally works a lot slower than poison. Still a pain in the rear to deal with, though.

lunar

Ooh, there are lots of diseases in pnp, each with onset time, debiliating effects, etc. Details are in various splat books. Paladins should be immune to them. Such long-term role playing stuff can not work in a computer game, ofcourse, so in bg disease is much like a slow acting poison effect that saps your hit points. In ghast's case, it is not a disease at all, but the revolting stench effect that gives combat roll penalties, the game handles the mechanic with a 'disease' application.

Elrandir

I dunno. I feel like it's fine. Being "Immune to Disease" sounds like the kind of power a monk would have, not a paladin. I imagine the paladins have trained themselves to resist the unique effects of the undead, where as disease is something that comes in so many forms that one cannot be "Immune" to it, unless one has found "unity with mind and body" to such an extent that poison, disease, and all manner of bad things no longer affect it. NOW, if you were to give paladins (specifically undead hunters) an ability to resist the disease(s) OF the undead, that I might understand. General disease immunity, though? Nah. I don't see it.

GamingFreak

I think the disease immunity thing is because Paladins expect certain foes to fight dirty and not fair. This goes against what Paladins are trained for, since they are accustomed to war and straight-forward battles. So training their bodies to be immune to charm or poisons/diseases would make sense so they could force their opponent to fight on even ground.

Darkcloud

Elrandir said:

I dunno. I feel like it's fine. Being "Immune to Disease" sounds like the kind of power a monk would have, not a paladin. I imagine the paladins have trained themselves to resist the unique effects of the undead, where as disease is something that comes in so many forms that one cannot be "Immune" to it, unless one has found "unity with mind and body" to such an extent that poison, disease, and all manner of bad things no longer affect it. NOW, if you were to give paladins (specifically undead hunters) an ability to resist the disease(s) OF the undead, that I might understand. General disease immunity, though? Nah. I don't see it.

though the paladin actually resists the former but not the later.

Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive

I remember getting like 5 million free Mummy's Teas at any rate, which cure all diseases. It's not so bad.