I don't know why there's so much hate for a straight non-specialized mage? IMO a fine choice as you don't lock out any spell schools from your mage book and you have much earlier access to higher level spells and HLAs by being single class. I have always found having to miss a spell school is a far bigger drawback than the extra slot.
I always felt that if you actually PC a mage from level 1 up to the point where he is actually powerful you've pretty much earned it because he is so soft early on. Not much TLC required to keep a mage with 120+ HP and full plate alive for the first 9 mage levels.... it sort of feels like cheating to me.
Irenicus has this fight, whether Loki is the comic version or the Norse god version. Just because Loki is a God doesn't make him that strong, if you read into Norse mythology at all, you will see the God's aren't omnipotent at all. I mean what do the Gods do that we can measure their strength by, well the Gods sometimes fight frost giants and trolls. Big whooop, Irenicus could insta gib a clan of frost giants followed up by a horde of trolls no problem. I'm thinking back on some old Norse story I read somewhere and it was basically about Odin and Loki getting mugged by 3 or 4 dwarves, the Gods where caught in an ambush and had to use trickery to escape with their lives. What are Loki's powers, well pretty much shapeshifting, really really good shapeshifting, but thats it as far as I can find. So if anybody knows if he has other powers pls tell me.
11) D&D Vampire vs Volkihar Vampire ( master vampire but not lord + fight happens at night )
D&D Vampire wins hands down, skyrim vamps are weak as hell. Even a fledgling D&D Vamp could kill pretty much any vampire in skyrim. Simple reasons being D&D Vamp's have decent resistances, decent regen and level drain. Skyrim vamps have normal mage spells and a few pretty useless class specific spells, like the drain blood spell that does nothing or the summon hell doggy spell, oh and the super king vampire form that has absolutely no benefit.
18) The Five Bhaalspawn vs Sauron ( 3rd Era , with ring of power )
I think anyone of the five could take Sauron one on one, well maybe not Illasera, but the rest Sauron wouldn't have a chance. Yaga's immortal Sendai would just go "kage no bunshin" on his ass Balthazar has the quivering palm of cheesiness and Abazigal is a high level fighter with a +5 sword who turns into a freaking dragon on death. Yeah not seeing Sauron winning this.
2)18) The Five Bhaalspawn vs Sauron ( 3rd Era , with ring of power )
I think anyone of the five could take Sauron one on one, well maybe not Illasera, but the rest Sauron wouldn't have a chance. Yaga's immortal Sendai would just go "kage no bunshin" on his ass Balthazar has the quivering palm of cheesiness and Abazigal is a high level fighter with a +5 sword who turns into a freaking dragon on death. Yeah not seeing Sauron winning this.
I think you are underestimating Sauron here. I think the Five together could bring down Sauron but none of them alone can do it. Sauron is a high-level fighter as well as a powerful necromancer.
Here's why: -At the opening scene of LoTR, you see Sauron taking down hundreds of men by himself. Doesn't matter how many Sendai's there is, he'll just smite them to oblivion. It appears that there's some kind of enchantment on his mace that gives the weapon a permanent Smite-ability. -Sauron doesn't have a corporeal form anymore on the Third Age, so Balthazar's monky gimmicks are pretty much ineffective on him. As for physicality, Sauron did SLAY Gil-Galad, the High King of the Elves, who's basically a super-Legolas and Galadriel combined. Balthazar is nothing compared to that. -Abazigal or Yaga-Shura I can see going toe to toe with Sauron as fighters. Their weapons and fighting skills are pretty equal. However, Sauron combines his necromantic skills to his fighting style. He can sap their strength with his mere presence. -Sauron was the first lieutenant to Melkor/Morgoth whose 2nd lieutenant was Glaurung, the Father of Dragons. In his original form, he was more powerful than any dragon. I don't know how much of this applies anymore since Sauron's physical form was destroyed and that greatly reduced his strength. -As a group, the Five can cover all bases and defeat Sauron that way but as individuals they all fall short in one way or the other.
@SmilingSword I'm not sure if you are aware, but Fire and Frost Giants are not the same as Norse Giants. If you check out Deities and Demigods (the 3rd ed gives stats for Norse Giants), a Jotun Frost Giant is a 20th lvl Fighter or Barbarian. Iirc, they have Divine Rank 0, making them Demigods, which makes them much harder to kill. So, Irenicus would be lucky to survive a group of couple Giants, let alone defeat them.
If you check stats for Loki, he is pretty powerful, and has significant divine immunities. I wouldn't bet on Irenicus here.
@Yannir I don't know if Yaga-Shura could have his strength sapped, as he's got that immortality. Ability score death is a dev oversight imho. Then again, we only can Mind Flayer him after breaking his immunity.
1) Kangaxx vs Superman - I'm gonna use the same logic as Batman Vs. Superman. In an enclosed space (such as a ring or stadium), Kangaxx/Batman wins. Kangaxx/Batman have magic and other various abilities that Kent is weak to. In an open no holds barred match however, Clark takes the win as he can just fly up into the air and melt either of them from long range.
2) Irenicus vs Loki ( in comics ) - Wow good one. Gonna go with Loki on this. I mean he is a God and can't really be killed by normal magical means. According to Marvel wikia, Loki is a master sorcerer of Godly proportions and can also regenerate, shapeshift, and use psionics. I dont know about you guys but I found Irenicus to be awfully vulnerable to Timestop>Shapechange: Flayer>Instawin. Loki by a longshot.
3) Keldorn ( Carsomyr +6 ) vs King Arthur ( Excalibur ) - Another good match. D&D Paladins have the added advantage of using Divine magics as well as being skilled fighters. Ergo, Keldorn has a magical advantage over Arthur who is simply just a skilled fighter. Keldorn wins.
4) Sarevok vs Arthas - Pre Liche King or post? Pre ToB or Post? I believe if you take the 2 strongest forms, liche king wins as it would take 10-25 incredibly skilled/geared champions to take him out where as only a small group is required to take out sarevok. Liche King wins. If we're talking early Arthas, I'd say Sarevok. In such instances as Culling of Stratholme, Arthas only seemed to be a regular elite level 80 boss. Meaning 5 champions could easily take him out. In that case I don't think there is enough evidence to make a truly educated decision.
5) Edwin vs Khadgar - Absolutely no contest, Khadgar would explode him from dimensions away. Even endgame edwin would not stand a chance. Khadgar wins.
6) Your avarage lich in D&D vs A lich in Warcraft - WoW liches always seem to be bosses that take either a full instance or raid to take out. A liche in BG2 can be taken out easily with 1 prepared character. I'm going to have to go with WoW liche.
7) Minsc ( 19 str after rescuing Boo ) vs Grom Hellscream - lol again no contest. Grom is a current end game raid boss (not even released yet) who will take 10-25 endgame characters executed perfectly to destroy. Endgame Minsc = one of those champions. Grom will cut Minsc to pieces.
8) Noober vs Neeber - hahaha Neeber by virtue of the +2 bullets. Neeber wins.
9) Solar vs Tyrael - No idea. We get no evidence of Solar's abilities. Though if its anything like fallen solar, this might be a great fight. Tyrael didn't do so well when he fought along the PC in D3: Act 3 so... I'm gonna go with the Solar.
10) Avatar of Sargeras vs Demogorgon ( himself ) - hmmm, AoS was taken down by Aegwynn with a mere thought. He couldn't have been that powerful. Gonna go with Demogorgon. Again not enough evidence to make an educated decision.
11) D&D Vampire vs Volkihar Vampire ( master vampire but not lord + fight happens at night ) - Special character vs. unnamed vamp, gonna go with special character although I'm not familiar with Volkihar. Is Elder Scrolls not based on D&D?
12) Vivec ( on his peak ) vs any D&D level 30 mage ( but no time stop ) - Not familiar with vivec, but if any of the other hundred mage cheeses work, im gonna go with mage. Chain Contingency>Enemy on Sight> Triple Horrid Wilting + Sequencer>3X Flame Arrow. Nothing survives!!!! Mage wins.
13) Elminster ( Time of Troubles ) vs Medivh ( as guardian ) - Medivh is an insanely powerful warlock that can probably take out most current raid bosses. Elminster would be overwhelmed. Medivh Wins.
14) Drizzt vs Divayth Fyr - I'll relate this to Drizzt vs. Gromph Baenre as again I'm not familiar with Elder Scrolls. Gromph is the archmage of the most prominant Drow city, and honestly, mages own D&D: Faerun. Divayth/Gromph by a longshop. Just too many ways to cheese a melee opponent with magic.
15) Shadow Dragon vs Durnehviir - Not familiar with Durnehvvir, but again named special character Dragon vs. standard dragon, name usually wins.
16) Kerghan vs Edwin - Sorry never played Elder Scrolls. I also find Edwin to be only as powerful as his level and gear.
17) Elminster vs White Gandalf - Is it me or are the mages of Tolkien's Middle Earth not that powerful? I'm gonna go with Elminster.
18) The Five Bhaalspawn vs Sauron ( 3rd Era , with ring of power ) - Wow no idea. Melissan might be crafty enough to get the ring off of Sauron, also Yaga Shura is invincible without raiding his home. Might depend on a few variables. Gonna go with 5 Bhaalspawn. ***EDIT*** NM Mel isn't part of the 5, but I still say they win.
19) Aegwynn ( before giving birth to Medivh , post Sargeras fight ) vs Amelyssan ( pocket universe ) - I think Aegwynn, Melyssan wasn't that tough save for her summons. She might be able to wear Aeg down but I dont think so. Aegwynn wins!
@Baron_Bathory Kerghan is the necromancer ( and the last boss ) from Arcanum , not the Elder Scrolls . He can be killed by only a legendary sword or a special device . He is trapped in void so imprisonment or maze will not work . He turns into a bone dragon in the battle and immune to anything but these 2 artifact in his regenerative shell . Yup not even the disintegrate works on him if I remember correctly.
Other than its annoying combat , good game . Playing mentally retarded half ogre or a gnome who insults every human ( you get a good reaction from npcs for doing this ) being makes me smile everytime . Oh if you ask the location of Elven city as an elf , people will laugh at you .
If you dont mind the combat , sure . Its real time or turn based combat . Sadly you cant control your companions fully ( but you can give them any equipment like on BG ) . So dont be surprised when your mage companion rushes to attack that golem with his bare hands This happens in real time of course . You can either be techno or magic based character . If you have high magic affinity , tech items will fail to work or vice versa . I think they will charge you extra for using trains with high magic affinity .
One thing I love about this game that you can persuade almost anyone ( yes , even the last boss ) . There are so many things you can do . I'm not gonna tell everything because you need to see it yourself but lets say you can be a full time hooker + have a sex with a sheep . Be an ambassador , fight in gladiator pit . Blackmail the governor , travel the world with a ship and search the old god altars for the power . Oh you have teleport spell too . No more wasting days to go another town . One last thing . You can kill people and resurrect them to kill again for the torture . Or you can just summon their spirits instead of resurrecting them , it hurts so much . Sadly I don't know much about tech so cant say much . But you can make guns , dynamites , charged rings and tesla coils . Play the game and see for yourself . Again I'm warning , you may not like the combat ! If it gets too tiresome for you , just spam harm ( level 1 black necromatic spell ) on enemies . Always works .
Comments
I always felt that if you actually PC a mage from level 1 up to the point where he is actually powerful you've pretty much earned it because he is so soft early on. Not much TLC required to keep a mage with 120+ HP and full plate alive for the first 9 mage levels.... it sort of feels like cheating to me.
Irenicus has this fight, whether Loki is the comic version or the Norse god version.
Just because Loki is a God doesn't make him that strong, if you read into Norse mythology at all, you will see the God's aren't omnipotent at all.
I mean what do the Gods do that we can measure their strength by, well the Gods sometimes fight frost giants and trolls.
Big whooop, Irenicus could insta gib a clan of frost giants followed up by a horde of trolls no problem.
I'm thinking back on some old Norse story I read somewhere and it was basically about Odin and Loki getting mugged by 3 or 4 dwarves, the Gods where caught in an ambush and had to use trickery to escape with their lives.
What are Loki's powers, well pretty much shapeshifting, really really good shapeshifting, but thats it as far as I can find. So if anybody knows if he has other powers pls tell me.
11) D&D Vampire vs Volkihar Vampire ( master vampire but not lord + fight happens at night )
D&D Vampire wins hands down, skyrim vamps are weak as hell. Even a fledgling D&D Vamp could kill pretty much any vampire in skyrim. Simple reasons being D&D Vamp's have decent resistances, decent regen and level drain.
Skyrim vamps have normal mage spells and a few pretty useless class specific spells, like the drain blood spell that does nothing or the summon hell doggy spell, oh and the super king vampire form that has absolutely no benefit.
18) The Five Bhaalspawn vs Sauron ( 3rd Era , with ring of power )
I think anyone of the five could take Sauron one on one, well maybe not Illasera, but the rest Sauron wouldn't have a chance.
Yaga's immortal
Sendai would just go "kage no bunshin" on his ass
Balthazar has the quivering palm of cheesiness
and Abazigal is a high level fighter with a +5 sword who turns into a freaking dragon on death.
Yeah not seeing Sauron winning this.
Here's why:
-At the opening scene of LoTR, you see Sauron taking down hundreds of men by himself. Doesn't matter how many Sendai's there is, he'll just smite them to oblivion. It appears that there's some kind of enchantment on his mace that gives the weapon a permanent Smite-ability.
-Sauron doesn't have a corporeal form anymore on the Third Age, so Balthazar's monky gimmicks are pretty much ineffective on him. As for physicality, Sauron did SLAY Gil-Galad, the High King of the Elves, who's basically a super-Legolas and Galadriel combined. Balthazar is nothing compared to that.
-Abazigal or Yaga-Shura I can see going toe to toe with Sauron as fighters. Their weapons and fighting skills are pretty equal. However, Sauron combines his necromantic skills to his fighting style. He can sap their strength with his mere presence.
-Sauron was the first lieutenant to Melkor/Morgoth whose 2nd lieutenant was Glaurung, the Father of Dragons. In his original form, he was more powerful than any dragon. I don't know how much of this applies anymore since Sauron's physical form was destroyed and that greatly reduced his strength.
-As a group, the Five can cover all bases and defeat Sauron that way but as individuals they all fall short in one way or the other.
If you check stats for Loki, he is pretty powerful, and has significant divine immunities. I wouldn't bet on Irenicus here.
@Yannir I don't know if Yaga-Shura could have his strength sapped, as he's got that immortality. Ability score death is a dev oversight imho. Then again, we only can Mind Flayer him after breaking his immunity.
1) Kangaxx vs Superman - I'm gonna use the same logic as Batman Vs. Superman. In an enclosed space (such as a ring or stadium), Kangaxx/Batman wins. Kangaxx/Batman have magic and other various abilities that Kent is weak to. In an open no holds barred match however, Clark takes the win as he can just fly up into the air and melt either of them from long range.
2) Irenicus vs Loki ( in comics ) - Wow good one. Gonna go with Loki on this. I mean he is a God and can't really be killed by normal magical means. According to Marvel wikia, Loki is a master sorcerer of Godly proportions and can also regenerate, shapeshift, and use psionics. I dont know about you guys but I found Irenicus to be awfully vulnerable to Timestop>Shapechange: Flayer>Instawin. Loki by a longshot.
3) Keldorn ( Carsomyr +6 ) vs King Arthur ( Excalibur ) - Another good match. D&D Paladins have the added advantage of using Divine magics as well as being skilled fighters. Ergo, Keldorn has a magical advantage over Arthur who is simply just a skilled fighter. Keldorn wins.
4) Sarevok vs Arthas - Pre Liche King or post? Pre ToB or Post? I believe if you take the 2 strongest forms, liche king wins as it would take 10-25 incredibly skilled/geared champions to take him out where as only a small group is required to take out sarevok. Liche King wins. If we're talking early Arthas, I'd say Sarevok. In such instances as Culling of Stratholme, Arthas only seemed to be a regular elite level 80 boss. Meaning 5 champions could easily take him out. In that case I don't think there is enough evidence to make a truly educated decision.
5) Edwin vs Khadgar - Absolutely no contest, Khadgar would explode him from dimensions away. Even endgame edwin would not stand a chance. Khadgar wins.
6) Your avarage lich in D&D vs A lich in Warcraft - WoW liches always seem to be bosses that take either a full instance or raid to take out. A liche in BG2 can be taken out easily with 1 prepared character. I'm going to have to go with WoW liche.
7) Minsc ( 19 str after rescuing Boo ) vs Grom Hellscream - lol again no contest. Grom is a current end game raid boss (not even released yet) who will take 10-25 endgame characters executed perfectly to destroy. Endgame Minsc = one of those champions. Grom will cut Minsc to pieces.
8) Noober vs Neeber - hahaha Neeber by virtue of the +2 bullets. Neeber wins.
9) Solar vs Tyrael - No idea. We get no evidence of Solar's abilities. Though if its anything like fallen solar, this might be a great fight. Tyrael didn't do so well when he fought along the PC in D3: Act 3 so... I'm gonna go with the Solar.
10) Avatar of Sargeras vs Demogorgon ( himself ) - hmmm, AoS was taken down by Aegwynn with a mere thought. He couldn't have been that powerful. Gonna go with Demogorgon. Again not enough evidence to make an educated decision.
11) D&D Vampire vs Volkihar Vampire ( master vampire but not lord + fight happens at night ) - Special character vs. unnamed vamp, gonna go with special character although I'm not familiar with Volkihar. Is Elder Scrolls not based on D&D?
12) Vivec ( on his peak ) vs any D&D level 30 mage ( but no time stop ) - Not familiar with vivec, but if any of the other hundred mage cheeses work, im gonna go with mage. Chain Contingency>Enemy on Sight> Triple Horrid Wilting + Sequencer>3X Flame Arrow. Nothing survives!!!! Mage wins.
13) Elminster ( Time of Troubles ) vs Medivh ( as guardian ) - Medivh is an insanely powerful warlock that can probably take out most current raid bosses. Elminster would be overwhelmed. Medivh Wins.
14) Drizzt vs Divayth Fyr - I'll relate this to Drizzt vs. Gromph Baenre as again I'm not familiar with Elder Scrolls. Gromph is the archmage of the most prominant Drow city, and honestly, mages own D&D: Faerun. Divayth/Gromph by a longshop. Just too many ways to cheese a melee opponent with magic.
15) Shadow Dragon vs Durnehviir - Not familiar with Durnehvvir, but again named special character Dragon vs. standard dragon, name usually wins.
16) Kerghan vs Edwin - Sorry never played Elder Scrolls. I also find Edwin to be only as powerful as his level and gear.
17) Elminster vs White Gandalf - Is it me or are the mages of Tolkien's Middle Earth not that powerful? I'm gonna go with Elminster.
18) The Five Bhaalspawn vs Sauron ( 3rd Era , with ring of power ) - Wow no idea. Melissan might be crafty enough to get the ring off of Sauron, also Yaga Shura is invincible without raiding his home. Might depend on a few variables. Gonna go with 5 Bhaalspawn. ***EDIT*** NM Mel isn't part of the 5, but I still say they win.
19) Aegwynn ( before giving birth to Medivh , post Sargeras fight ) vs Amelyssan ( pocket universe ) - I think Aegwynn, Melyssan wasn't that tough save for her summons. She might be able to wear Aeg down but I dont think so. Aegwynn wins!
Awesome thread, hope I helped :P
Other than its annoying combat , good game . Playing mentally retarded half ogre or a gnome who insults every human ( you get a good reaction from npcs for doing this ) being makes me smile everytime . Oh if you ask the location of Elven city as an elf , people will laugh at you .
One thing I love about this game that you can persuade almost anyone ( yes , even the last boss ) . There are so many things you can do . I'm not gonna tell everything because you need to see it yourself but lets say you can be a full time hooker + have a sex with a sheep . Be an ambassador , fight in gladiator pit . Blackmail the governor , travel the world with a ship and search the old god altars for the power . Oh you have teleport spell too . No more wasting days to go another town . One last thing . You can kill people and resurrect them to kill again for the torture . Or you can just summon their spirits instead of resurrecting them , it hurts so much . Sadly I don't know much about tech so cant say much . But you can make guns , dynamites , charged rings and tesla coils . Play the game and see for yourself . Again I'm warning , you may not like the combat ! If it gets too tiresome for you , just spam harm ( level 1 black necromatic spell ) on enemies . Always works .
That actually sounds insane! I might have to pick it up.