Race Class Exclusiveness

TheNPC

Will the enhanced edition keep the 2nd Edition banning of some classes for some races?

Will we have a Dwarven paladin and an Elven monk?

Shin

Haven't heard anything about the restrictions being lifted, and I doubt they will. It's easy to modify the race-class requirements as you see fit though, so it shouldn't be a big issue.

Mortianna

They're using the Throne of Bhaal engine, including everything that comes with it (including 2nd edition race restrictions).

LadyRhian

I hope not. That was one of the things that made 2e what it was, just as the lifting of all those restrictions made 3e what it was.

Grammarsalad

He he one of my favorite characters was a dwarven mage. He liked to threaten to stuff a fireball down yer throat!

Anduine

I am nearly 100% certain that the rules involving what races can play as will be completely untouched. Baldur's Gate utilizes AD&D 2.0, and it follows those rules fairly well. I'd rather that not be tampered with, otherwise I will watch in horror as this exalted series takes it's first step into the dark, corrupted, damnable realm of WoW. (Miasma and shadowy tendrils hiss as I say it's name)

Manveru

That's a shame, I still don't understand why you for example can't play an elven paladin in 2nd Edition

Anduine

Manveru said:

That's a shame, I still don't understand why you for example can't play an elven paladin in 2nd Edition

Rules aside, that would be interesting. For an Elf to spend his entire life as a Paladin would be something of legend. Centuries of service to a chosen god, and to the extermination of evil? If an Elf could choose such a rigid path in life, I imagine bards would sing about him for ages to come.

Kagain

Anduine said:

Rules aside, that would be interesting. For an Elf to spend his entire life as a Paladin would be something of legend. Centuries of service to a chosen god, and to the extermination of evil? If an Elf could choose such a rigid path in life, I imagine bards would sing about him for ages to come.

Okay, you are right here, probably. But what about elven bard? Bladesingers are exist, but in 2ed elf cannot play as bard.

Anduine

Kagain said:

Anduine said:

Rules aside, that would be interesting. For an Elf to spend his entire life as a Paladin would be something of legend. Centuries of service to a chosen god, and to the extermination of evil? If an Elf could choose such a rigid path in life, I imagine bards would sing about him for ages to come.

Okay, you are right here, probably. But what about elven bard? Bladesingers are exist, but in 2ed elf cannot play as bard.

Are you applying modern rules/knowledge to that of the past, or are you saying that there are Elven Bladesingers in AD&D 2.0?

Doom972

It would be great if they remove these restrictions. Having more race/class combinations can only add to the game, in my opinion.

CCarluNN

I would love to see Mazzy has a real paladin, rather than a fighter with paladin abilities. But then again, as a fighter she has excellent short bow proficiency.

Dragonspear

Honestly no elven bards or druids has always kinda made me scratch my head

Jolanthus

At least there are no racial level restrictions.

Lemernis

It's been years since I noodled around with this stuff, but doesn't Shadowkeeper allow you to change race for any class or kit?

Kagain

Anduine said:

Are you applying modern rules/knowledge to that of the past, or are you saying that there are Elven Bladesingers in AD&D 2.0?

I am not sure, but i think they could be mentioned somewhere in 2.0

Kagain

Lemernis said:

It's been years since I noodled around with this stuff, but doesn't Shadowkeeper allow you to change race for any class or kit?

Yes, it allows to create dwarven or half-orchish wizards and etc. But i do not like using of SK, because it is similar to cheating.

Aenor

Part of the charm of 2e was the fact that not every character was a half-leprechaun paladin/monk/surferdude unlike today.

Lemernis

Kagain said:

Lemernis said:

It's been years since I noodled around with this stuff, but doesn't Shadowkeeper allow you to change race for any class or kit?

Yes, it allows to create dwarven or half-orchish wizards and etc. But i do not like using of SK, because it is similar to cheating.

I hear you, and respect that point of view. But the end of the day it's a game, to be enjoyed as the player sees fit (assuming you're playing individually, not with others online MP in gaming group). And PnP D&D allows for 'house rules'.

Kagain

Lemernis said:

I hear you, and respect that point of view. But the end of the day it's a game, to be enjoyed as the player sees fit (assuming you're not playing individually, not with others online MP in gaming group). And PnP D&D allows for 'house rules'.

Ofcourse all of us tried it
But i prefered another ways to change character, like setting custom race\model to him. Deckard Cain in BG2 - sure!

But back to DnD. I am really sad, that in that "times" only humans and half-elfs were able to play musical instruments.

Xavioria

Personally, I don't mind following the rules with races and classes with bg... Although I DID once use shadowkeeper to make my main character a cleric Mage who was elven.
The only thing I don't understand is that if you are raised by humans and around humans... Even if you're a different races, wouldn't it make sense if there are a few more classes available to you?
I ALSO would not mind very special npcs in the game that held awesome yet unlawful race/class combos, kind of like Aerie. Seeing an elven or dwarven paladin would be awesome (dwarven sounds better), or perhaps a gnome Druid (just to spice things up, because humans and half elves are always SOS serious).

We need more shorties anyways.

Tanthalas

One of the things that I liked about 3E was how they removed the race/class restrictions. They never made much sense to me.

lockmund

I for one would have liked the option to play a halfling bard. It feels right too me.

Moomintroll

@Lemernis I had a dwarven bard through shadowkeeper, my favourite bard to date! Although I agree with @Kagain it is "cheating," you are creating an exception in the rules, one of many that already exist - if you can enjoy that exception then it's a good thing

bigdogchris

Even if they wanted to remove the race/class restrictions, they can't. The game does not have animations for Dwarven Monks, etc.

Moomintroll

@bigdogchris they could always use the lame IWD2 solution.

bigdogchris

Moomintroll said:

@bigdogchris they could always use the lame IWD2 solution.

I haven't played a Dwarf Monk in IDW 2 so please enlighten me

Xavioria

I'm sure it couldn't be that hard to add animations for other race monks and add it as DLC. Maybe add in another NPC monk that is of another race with it as well.

If it's allowed or not. Not sure if that counts as changing current content.

Kagain

bigdogchris said:

Even if they wanted to remove the race/class restrictions, they can't. The game does not have animations for Dwarven Monks, etc.

As well, as Sarevok has not casting animation. So annoying when game crashes, when you try to cast a spell with his model.

kilroy_was_here

@Kagain That's only in BG1 right? After all, when you can get him in TOB he has the INT to dual-class into a mage, so he must have a spell animation then. Since they are using the TOB engine it shouldn't be a problem.

As far as the race restrictions more generally, I just assumed that the various ingame orders for the classes (paladin, druid, monk etc) were spectacularly racist and didn't want to share their secrets with 'outsiders'.

More logically, it has to do with race balancing. In 3e humans get extra skill points and feats to make up for the innate abilities of the other races. Well, in 2e other races still get benefits, but there aren't any skills or feats for humans. So only humans can be any class, and according to pnp 2e only humans can advance to any level. That's right, the best elven mage will never be as leveled as the best human mage, even if the elf has several centuries on him. And since non-humans can't dual-class either they are stuck at that level forever.

Speaking of the animations issue, there was a bug that the Egyptian-looking ancestral mask or whatever it was called that you get the pieces for in BG2 once it assembles counts as a helmet that can be worn by any class. Putting it on my monk was hilarious. Since the monk has no 'helmeted' animations the helmet would float in midair as the monk moved and dodged when attacking. You should try it out if you can... I'm sure that fixed that bug in the EE since that mask wasn't supposed to be wearable.

Tanthalas

@kilroy_was_here

In ToB Sarevok just uses a generic Human appearance, not the armoured animation from vBG1.