How did we all know not to rescue Imoen as soon as we had the money?

Baron_Bathory

I get a chuckle out of this one. Somehow even in my first playthrough I knew that it wasn't intended to go chasing after the cowled ones right away and In my 15 years of playing I know very few players that did.

Is there any particular logic behind this? Was it pure intuition? Trial and error? Did we just hunger for more power? Were the shadows lurking behind every avenue in Athkatla just too interesting to want to leave? Did you feel you might not be able to come back?

What made you guys wait?

Jalily

I wanted to experience as much content as possible and avoided progressing the main plot before I finished all the sidequests I wanted to do.

Jarrakul

BG2 wasn't the first RPG I played (although I'll admit, it was close). It doesn't take long to learn to take the "wrong" path first.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Heindrich

I instinctively knew that rushing off immediately to rescue Immy could be tricky cos "RPG logic", and I kinda confirmed it by asking in this forum (in a non-spoilery way), but I still tried to rescue her fairly soon, and accepted quests selectively on the basis that Charname wanted to find allies aside from Shadow Thieves or Vampires, such as the Temple of Helm or the Order of Radiant Heart. I did turn down quests that seemed "too insignificant" like the skinner murders and those that required a long trek like the Shadow dungeon and the Windspear Hills. I didn't even know Trademeet existed until after I returned from the Underdark!

hispls

I think if you DON'T know the game inside and out and are just wandering around exploring looking for clues/quests/cash/items you should have a ton of loose ends to tie up before running off the instant you first lay your hands on the 20K. Also from the perspective of playing the game, of course you want to just explore everything as soon as you see it before progressing the main quest.


From a RP point of view you've seen some items or high level spells that you just HAVE to have before going off to attempt such a bold rescue so you're really not just searching for 20K gold, you're also planning to bust your friend out of the most secure prison in Faerun. You just KNOW you'll need some solid gear (and typically allies) to make it happen.

Lord_Tansheron

I think the main reason is that there just isn't any mechanic in the game that puts any sort of pressure on you. Nothing suggests you may be on a clock (and indeed you aren't) and that in turn creates a relaxed atmosphere of "I'll just do ONE more quest...".

I'd wager that if there was SOMETHING to give you periodic pokes towards the rescue, even if it wasn't actually on a timer, people would react very differently.

baldurskjd

I think the number of quests that are thrown your way gives a hint to consider postponing rescuing imoen.

Heindrich

Lord_Tansheron said:

I think the main reason is that there just isn't any mechanic in the game that puts any sort of pressure on you. Nothing suggests you may be on a clock (and indeed you aren't) and that in turn creates a relaxed atmosphere of "I'll just do ONE more quest...".

I'd wager that if there was SOMETHING to give you periodic pokes towards the rescue, even if it wasn't actually on a timer, people would react very differently.

From a game mechanics perspective, or as I call it, "RPG logic", you are right. But if you are a roleplayer and your character is not evil, he/she likely feels obligated to rescue Imoen, their childhood friend and companion (dunno about the sibling thing yet), asap. The dreams you get also show that she is in far greater danger than just being held by draconian wizarding police. In fact I have to disregard the dreams to excuse myself from not rushing off to Spellhold immediately upon finding out about Irenicus' jailbreak. (It kinda makes sense as well because otherwise the prison tour at the start of Spellhold makes zero sense.)

SionIV

I always wait with doing the main quest until I've done all the side quests, Baldur's Gate 2 was no different.

scriver

First rule of adventuring: Always do the side quests first.

CaptRory

Heindrich said:

Lord_Tansheron said:

I think the main reason is that there just isn't any mechanic in the game that puts any sort of pressure on you. Nothing suggests you may be on a clock (and indeed you aren't) and that in turn creates a relaxed atmosphere of "I'll just do ONE more quest...".

I'd wager that if there was SOMETHING to give you periodic pokes towards the rescue, even if it wasn't actually on a timer, people would react very differently.

From a game mechanics perspective, or as I call it, "RPG logic", you are right. But if you are a roleplayer and your character is not evil, he/she likely feels obligated to rescue Imoen, their childhood friend and companion (dunno about the sibling thing yet), asap. The dreams you get also show that she is in far greater danger than just being held by draconian wizarding police. In fact I have to disregard the dreams to excuse myself from not rushing off to Spellhold immediately upon finding out about Irenicus' jailbreak. (It kinda makes sense as well because otherwise the prison tour at the start of Spellhold makes zero sense.)

The flip side is your character being wise enough to know you can't just run off after Imoen. You're in a different country, in a different part of the world. You have no allies, no friends, no resources. It's actually really smart to take your time to gather some resources and some allies.

abacus

The Journal helped... clearly defined chapters, and I have all these things to do.

deltago

Lord_Tansheron said:

I think the main reason is that there just isn't any mechanic in the game that puts any sort of pressure on you. Nothing suggests you may be on a clock (and indeed you aren't) and that in turn creates a relaxed atmosphere of "I'll just do ONE more quest...".

I'd wager that if there was SOMETHING to give you periodic pokes towards the rescue, even if it wasn't actually on a timer, people would react very differently.

Not only that. No game at the time PUT pressure on you to do so. Why would this one be different? If it did, it would have been ground breaking even further at the time.

Gallowglass

Well heck, @Baron_Bathory and everyone, the in-game dialogue pretty much tells you to wait.

After you escape from Irenicus's dungeon and have the cut-scene in which Imoen (and Irenicus) are carried away by the Cowled Wizards, there is immediately a dialogue in which Minsc argues for chasing after Imoen straight away, but Jaheira warns that you'll just die if you rush in unprepared, and instead advises that you should first investigate the situation and make sure that you're strong enough to do the job, and Yoshimo then speaks up in support of what Jaheira says.

The game could hardly give you a bigger hint that you need to wait a while and build up a couple of levels before going to rescue Imoen.

I still remember when I first played the game, even though that's now a long time ago, and I remember realising (correctly) that Jaheira's cautious advice was probably wiser than Minsc's gung-ho enthusiasm, so I didn't chase Imoen until after I had solved several side-quests and gained a few levels. This (of course) turned out to be a good call.

shawne

RP-wise, I had seen Irenicus explode Cowled Wizards with his mind, and I couldn't even take down a stray vampire. No matter how badly I wanted to rescue Imoen, having the money didn't mean I was prepared for that fight. (Of course, my first time through, I was assuming that Spellhold was the endgame.)

CaptRory

shawne said:

RP-wise, I had seen Irenicus explode Cowled Wizards with his mind...

"How 'bout the power to kill a yak from 200 yards away...
with mind bullets! That's telekinesis, Kyle."

kcwise

It's been a while, but I think I did go after Imoen when I first had the chance. Now it depends on whether or not I'm going to keep Imoen in the party.

dunbar

The first time through I adhered to the two trusted principles of "Never take a knife to a gunfight" and "Never trust a DM".
I thought, correctly as it turned out, that I would have to be several kinds of stupid to rush headlong, blindly and unprepared into a confrontation with an awesomely powerful foe.

OurQuestIsVain

I remember my very first playthrough of BG2. I went after Imoen as soon as I could. As you know, the game sort of forces you along the tracks as the story progresses and you don't really have any say in where you're going or what you're doing. After I finished the game I remember thinking "How is this possible? I've played through the whole game and didn't visit half of these locations on the map that came with the game."

scriver

deltago said:

Lord_Tansheron said:

I think the main reason is that there just isn't any mechanic in the game that puts any sort of pressure on you. Nothing suggests you may be on a clock (and indeed you aren't) and that in turn creates a relaxed atmosphere of "I'll just do ONE more quest...".

I'd wager that if there was SOMETHING to give you periodic pokes towards the rescue, even if it wasn't actually on a timer, people would react very differently.

Not only that. No game at the time PUT pressure on you to do so. Why would this one be different? If it did, it would have been ground breaking even further at the time.

This is untrue. Of the top of my head, Fallout had an "incentive" (in that if you took too long your home shelter died), and it was common with time limits in older RPGs as well. It would have been nothing new - in fact they got less and less common as time went on as they were often badly implemented and thus boring.

Arunsun

Had one played golden sun or other RPG before BG2, one would know progressing too much in main plot could sometimes prevent you from doing secondary quests after, which is why any RPG player quickly gets that rushing a game plot is neither good nor interesting.

hispls

deltago said:

Lord_Tansheron said:

I think the main reason is that there just isn't any mechanic in the game that puts any sort of pressure on you. Nothing suggests you may be on a clock (and indeed you aren't) and that in turn creates a relaxed atmosphere of "I'll just do ONE more quest...".

I'd wager that if there was SOMETHING to give you periodic pokes towards the rescue, even if it wasn't actually on a timer, people would react very differently.

Not only that. No game at the time PUT pressure on you to do so. Why would this one be different? If it did, it would have been ground breaking even further at the time.

Fallout 1 had a time limit were you would flat out lose if you didn't finish the main quest in XX days (you could buy more days if you figured out that part). Fallout 2 would nag you constantly but there was no consequences of not pushing forward in the main quest-line.

Also consider the party being poisoned quest in BG1 where you had a finite time limit to finish it. Time limits were nothing "new" to an RPG when BG2 was released. The great thing is that you can RP it as you see appropriate as a logical argument can be made for racing into it or putting it off for later.

Son_of_Imoen

I did go directly after Imoen as soon as I had the money. However, reaching that amount of money took a very long time. I carefully read the descriptions of the Stratagems options to choose what to install and what not and even though I didn't know the game yet - and because of the descriptions being a bit spoilersh - Stratagems did a good job in explaining why certain tweaks were part of the pack. Stratagems explained in an unmodded game you get the needed amount of money long before being powerful enough. So I picked for the needed amount to triple and when Charname talked to Baelen, he needed to bring 60.000 gp.

My charname, actually his name was not Charname, but Kheltick, felt bad about buying lots of expensive stuff that made the goal of 60k gp even further away, but he knew (not only 'RPG-logic', but from Charname's POV it's obvious he will face a difficult rescue operation) he would need to have good gear. So once the gear was top fit and the total amount of money was raised, the party took the boat straight away.

With the experience of the first playthrough under my belt, I decided to opt for 40.000 as the needed amount for my future playthroughs.

*disclaimer: the figures I mentioned are from memory, I'd have to go to my backup drive and look at the WeiDu's or fire up the backupped campaigns to check, but I don't have those around ATM.

CaptRory

I do have a pacing problem with BG2. It takes most of the game to rescue Imoen (depending on how many side quests you do first) (and if you want her in your party you want to get her early) and then once you do there are other pressing plot concerns. It's a sprint to Imoen then a race to the end of the game. I think they need some more links in that chain, places where there plot slows down a little so you feel justified in stopping to look around and do some side quests.

SionIV

CaptRory said:

I do have a pacing problem with BG2. It takes most of the game to rescue Imoen (depending on how many side quests you do first) (and if you want her in your party you want to get her early) and then once you do there are other pressing plot concerns. It's a sprint to Imoen then a race to the end of the game. I think they need some more links in that chain, places where there plot slows down a little so you feel justified in stopping to look around and do some side quests.

I somewhat agree but the problem is the cost of rescuing Imoen, it's too low. If they had raised the cost (like in SCS) to around 50 000 - 80 000 people would have more time to travel around and do things to collect money for the rescue. As it is right now most people only have to do one or two major quest lines at the most to gain the money they need. Chapter 2 is pretty much the time to adventure, explore and get ready for the big ride.

After that it's a roller coaster to save Imoen and then reclaim your soul (stop Irenicus).

CaptRory

SionIV said:

CaptRory said:

I do have a pacing problem with BG2. It takes most of the game to rescue Imoen (depending on how many side quests you do first) (and if you want her in your party you want to get her early) and then once you do there are other pressing plot concerns. It's a sprint to Imoen then a race to the end of the game. I think they need some more links in that chain, places where there plot slows down a little so you feel justified in stopping to look around and do some side quests.

I somewhat agree but the problem is the cost of rescuing Imoen, it's too low. If they had raised the cost (like in SCS) to around 50 000 - 80 000 people would have more time to travel around and do things to collect money for the rescue. As it is right now most people only have to do one or two major quest lines at the most to gain the money they need. Chapter 2 is pretty much the time to adventure, explore and get ready for the big ride.

After that it's a roller coaster to save Imoen and then reclaim your soul (stop Irenicus).

Yeah, but if you want Imoen in your party, you want to put off that exploration. There should be another one or two stops on the route of the Plot Bus. Inevitably I end up ignoring the elves til I'm damn good and ready and their problem is arguably more time sensitive than Imoen's capture.

SionIV

CaptRory said:

SionIV said:

CaptRory said:

I do have a pacing problem with BG2. It takes most of the game to rescue Imoen (depending on how many side quests you do first) (and if you want her in your party you want to get her early) and then once you do there are other pressing plot concerns. It's a sprint to Imoen then a race to the end of the game. I think they need some more links in that chain, places where there plot slows down a little so you feel justified in stopping to look around and do some side quests.

I somewhat agree but the problem is the cost of rescuing Imoen, it's too low. If they had raised the cost (like in SCS) to around 50 000 - 80 000 people would have more time to travel around and do things to collect money for the rescue. As it is right now most people only have to do one or two major quest lines at the most to gain the money they need. Chapter 2 is pretty much the time to adventure, explore and get ready for the big ride.

After that it's a roller coaster to save Imoen and then reclaim your soul (stop Irenicus).

Yeah, but if you want Imoen in your party, you want to put off that exploration. There should be another one or two stops on the route of the Plot Bus. Inevitably I end up ignoring the elves til I'm damn good and ready and their problem is arguably more time sensitive than Imoen's capture.

The sad truth is that you aren't meant to get her early on in the game. She has no dialogues at all with any of the major side quests and only a few handful with other NPC's. Try to pick her up early and take her around to do quests like Firkraag, De'arnise, Temple, Umar Hills, Planar Sphere. She has no dialogues with anyone, not with the Cowled Wizards in the planar sphere even after getting captured by them nor with Firkgraag or Tazok either when they talk about Gorian and Harpers.

She is there for the start dungeon and the end game.

Blackraven

I remember that in my first (walkthroughless) run I did do a number of sidequests because they seemed very urgent (Nalia, Umar, Skinner murders). But then the vision in which Irenicus takes control of Spellhold made me focus on saving Imoen.

SionIV

Blackraven said:

I remember that in my first (walkthroughless) run I did do a number of sidequests because they seemed very urgent (Nalia, Umar, Skinner murders). But then the vision in which Irenicus takes control of Spellhold made me focus on saving Imoen.

That vision happens once you've paid the 15 000. So it's only at that point that RP wise you're forced to hurry.

Blackraven

Hm interesting. Then I must have skipped a couple of things that came up only in Chapter 3 (as well as quests I'd simply failed to discover).
It's all a bit of blur now, 15 years later...