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trouble with dual class

Hello, I'm on my second play through and I wanted to give dual classing a fighter mage. From what I understood:

"To dual-class you must be a Human, and you must be at least 2nd level in
the class you started out as to dual-class. You must have a 15 in the
prime requisites of your current class, and 17 in the prime requisites
of the class you want to change to."

From what I can tell I meet the requirements, but the button is not enabled (see attached).

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong here?

Cheers and thank you!

Comments

  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    Wild Mages cannot dual-class. :-(
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2015
    Install BG2tweaks and you can do it.

    http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=695

    Expanded Dual-Class Options
    This component will allow Barbarians and Wild Mages to dual-class to other classes. Barbarians will have the same dual-class options (cleric, druid, mage, and thief) with the same requirement (15 strength) as fighters. Wild Mages will have the same dual-class options (cleric, fighter, and thief) with the same requirement (15 intelligence) as regular mages.
  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    Well crap. I'm playing on Android so I'm not sure if mods are an option. Looks like I will need to restart again :/
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    I haven't experimented with mods yet per se, but you can create an override folder on Android to bypass the exp cap. As long as mods use the override folder, it's very doable (and easy).
  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    Interesting. I'll give it a try. Cheers!
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    edited March 2015
    Why on earth are you trying to dual to a Fighter after only two levels of Mage? That character is going to be useless when it comes to casting spells as it will never be able to use anything other than first level spells. Once you dual to a new class, you can never gain any more levels in your old one. If you want to have a Fighter/Mage, you should be doing it the other way around and starting out as a Fighter, not a Mage. Or if you want to have a character that can both fight and cast spells, then you should be going with a multi-class, not dual.
  • matricematrice Member Posts: 86
    edited March 2015
    Wild mage is broken; even when being only lvl 1.
    Ofc he should wait more, cause he can definitly lvlup some more lvl in mage, without harming the max level of the fighter, and thus getting more lvl 1 spell slot.
  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    Well my intent was to game the wild surge (EG the caster level can go up higher than it can go down). Maybe this is why they decided to restrict that class from dual-classing.
  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    Ugg, made it to lvl 5 as an abjurer mage, and found out I can't specialize my fighter (kensai). My first play through was a poorly rolled kensai, so I'm trying to put together a better one now that I know I can continue the char in BG2.

    Any suggestions before I restart for the third time?

    (No cheats/mods please)
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    If you want a dual class suggestion, try Swashbuckler -> Mage. Swashbucklers are like half-thieves/half-fighters to begin with. Take the thief levels as far as you want, you can always dual class in BG2 when you get out of Chateau Irenicus, kick everyone out of the party, and get a bunch of mage levels by learning spells.

    Speaking martially, something a little less typical would be Fighter (Preferably Berzerker or Kensai) and dual class to a Druid. It'd be pretty cool to go Kensai -> Staff Grandmastery -> Druid and just prod all kinds of buttock.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    You can not dual into a kit.

    You can dual from a kit.

    Only "legal" multiclass combos can be made as dual classes. E.g. Ranger/Cleric yes, Ranger/Mage no.

    Weapon Pips dont stack. Taking a pip on quarterstaff as a thief and then dualling to mage and taking the quarterstaff pip again will be a waste of a pip once you retain your thief skills.

    If you are fighter and at dualling to another class, like cleric, only weapons the cleric can use will be available to use once you get your fighter levels back. So if you took pips in long sword, you will still have the pips but be unable to use the weapon.

    No going back to your old class, so make sure you unlock all the features you want before dualling.

    Know your xp caps.
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    CaptRory said:


    Speaking martially, something a little less typical would be Fighter (Preferably Berzerker or Kensai) and dual class to a Druid.

    That's a very hard character to roll because of all the requirements. You need to come up with a score of at least 96 for a decent character, unless you fiddle with the stats in EEKeeper.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    There are three wisdom books, so you don't need to be absolutely maxed out on Wisdom. But it is a different sort of character. ^_^
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    drkstr said:

    Well my intent was to game the wild surge (EG the caster level can go up higher than it can go down). Maybe this is why they decided to restrict that class from dual-classing.

    Actually the most likely reason why its not allowed is that any cleric spells cast by your character would also (from my understanding) be affected by the wild surge. Its not really a limitation that is in place due to balance reasons as I understand it. Rather its because of the bugs that allowing it to dual class might create.
  • hisplshispls Member Posts: 166
    drkstr said:

    Ugg, made it to lvl 5 as an abjurer mage, and found out I can't specialize my fighter (kensai). My first play through was a poorly rolled kensai, so I'm trying to put together a better one now that I know I can continue the char in BG2.

    Any suggestions before I restart for the third time?

    (No cheats/mods please)

    There is absolutely NO reason to dual away from spellcasting classes period. If you want a fighter with some priest spells use a ranger. If you want an OK fighter with some thief skills + light arcane spell use pick a bard.

    The primary benefit of virtually all of the fighter ---> something duals is the HP and THACO boost. Otherwise, IMO if you like to play with a party virtually all of them are weaker than their pure class counterparts, particularly mid and late game.

    The Kensei is a power-gamer choice for dualing because the "drawbacks" are eliminated later game going to thief or mage. If you wanted to play F/T ot F/M run a Kensei COMPLETELY THROUGH BG1 as a Kensei and dual him at level 9 or 13 in BG2. I'd suggest 9 since you'll want to see the HLA (High Level Abilities) and 9th level mage spells as early as possible... that's when the real fun begins! From there, once you've played BG2 once, try him dualled to the other class and see how that goes for you.

    If you want to play multiclass right from the get go through BG1 pick a non human and go with whichever suits your fancy. Any character will attain godly power by the time you're through with the trilogy without needing to worry about getting specialty classes kits or doing things perfect. The main benefit of dual class being access to both class's HLAs late game at the expense of slower progression.... and trust and believe HLAs for any vanilla class are far more powerful than the silly perks of the specialty classes.

    "Wild mage" is a stupid class, since it gives the specialization benefit with essentially no downside (if you reload) or the potential to instantly end your run in a no-reload game Neera makes it sort of fun with her quests but mostly it simply doesn't work in a video game. I think specialist classes in general are mostly over-rated and most of them that are great in BG are because of one ability that is really overpowered in certain situations.

  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the insight everyone. It gives me a lot to think about. :)

    From what it sounds though, the character I was hoping for isn't possible (a kensai with some low level magic abilities). From what I understood, I can start as a kensai and dual to a mage, but I would never be able to weild a sword and cast magic at the same time. Is that correct?
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    CaptRory said:

    If you want a dual class suggestion, try Swashbuckler -> Mage. Swashbucklers are like half-thieves/half-fighters to begin with. Take the thief levels as far as you want, you can always dual class in BG2 when you get out of Chateau Irenicus, kick everyone out of the party, and get a bunch of mage levels by learning spells.

    Speaking martially, something a little less typical would be Fighter (Preferably Berzerker or Kensai) and dual class to a Druid. It'd be pretty cool to go Kensai -> Staff Grandmastery -> Druid and just prod all kinds of buttock.

    Oh, I definitely have to try swash->mage, had not thought of it as essentially a fighter/thief dualing (although it will miss the multiple attacks).

    Rather than Fighter -> Druid, I am quite fond of dualing the other way. Druids score easy levels early in the game, and then suddenly get very expensive, so the 'optimum' is level 11 or 12, at 200k xp or 300k xp respectively. You lose little from not getting to pick a fighter kit, and both Avenger and Totemtic druid can be interesting kits to dual out from - although you are relying on max strength and picking up a bonus in BG1 to make the transition from Avenger. Both lead to dualing early in BG2 (round about the end of chateau Irenicus, the introductory dungeon) and while it takes a while to get enough Fighter levels to reclaim the druid abilities, you are basically only one fighter level's worth of XP behind, so not paying a significant penalty compared to a plain fighter.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    drkstr said:

    Hanksr for the insight everyone. It gives me a lot to think about. :)

    From what it sounds though, the character I was hoping for isn't possible (a kensai with some low level magic abilities). From what I understood, I can start as a kensai and dual to a mage, but I would never be able to weild a sword and cast magic at the same time. Is that correct?

    Nope, you can. Start as a Kensai and when your sword hand is good enough, dual to mage.

    You will lose all of your Kensai abilities until your mage level is one higher than the kensai, then you will get everything back.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    And while armor deactivates spell casting, weapons do not. You can wield any weapon you want and still use magic. Also, you don't want to dual class away from spell casting, it is waaaaaay stronger than martial prowess. Plus martial classes gain the most at lower levels where class hit dice still play a part. You want to gain some levels for good hp and better THAC0 and number of attacks and weapon proficiencies then spend the rest of the game as a mage or a cleric or something.
  • hisplshispls Member Posts: 166
    drkstr said:

    Thanks for the insight everyone. It gives me a lot to think about. :)

    From what it sounds though, the character I was hoping for isn't possible (a kensai with some low level magic abilities). From what I understood, I can start as a kensai and dual to a mage, but I would never be able to weild a sword and cast magic at the same time. Is that correct?

    This would be a brutal way to go about things even if possible, The strength of Kensei isn't to be a high level Kensei which will be a very weak fighter late game compared to other kits or even straight fighter, but to pick up 7-13 levels of Kensei then dual over to mage or thief where the "drawbacks" are next to nothing, you keep your THAC0 and other Kensi bonuses AND get various buffs defensive magic (to compensate for the no armor) and other abusive powers from the new class. You also have a very slow takeoff curve with HP and will have far lower HP later in the game.

    For example one of the best mage spells going in D&D is Stoneskins. You will NOT be able to get this with a mage then dual to fighter and ever see your mage abilities before the end of BG1 with the Xp cap. Having a Kensei without the various combat protection buffs defeats the whole purpose of that dual class! A thief can take HLA "Use Any Item" so now your Kensei has access to... well... any item (think of the possibilities).

    Trust the D&D veterans when we say that if you're going to slog through the first few character levels keeping a mage alive you're far better off just playing the straight mage who will become absurdly powerful late game. The late game strength is why you would even go through the effort of starting with a low level mage because they are so fragile early on.

    For the sake of argument what handful of low level mage spells do you really think would make a Kensei better? How many can you memorize at low levels? If you say level 2 spells for Mirror Image, why not level 3 for Ghost Armor? Why not level 4 for stoneskin? Why not simulacrum? See where this is going? A Kensei of very high level just isn't very good so a Kensei that can cast a couple magic missiles and one mirror image per day really only robs him of hitpoints and makes him an unarmored fighter who would be inferior for example, to a Monk who will get insanely powerful if you want to take an unarmored mele character through into ToB.

    If you're dead set on trying this, simply purchase the EE for your computer, install, and move the save from your phone/tablet over to the PC for editing. OR just upload your savegame file and I'm sure a member of this board would mod your character for you to suit your tastes.

  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    Awesome! I got what I came here for. Cheers everyone!

    I will restart kensai then dual to mage.

    One of my concerns with starting kensai was that it would be difficult to recover my fighter levels with a mage by end game (I think I finished at around 7 or 8). Would it be reasonable to dual @ lvl 7 or 8 kensai and finish the game with lvl 9 kensai/mage? Is there even enough opportunity in the game to gain this amount of exp?
  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    hispls said:

    drkstr said:

    Thanks for the insight everyone. It gives me a lot to think about. :)

    From what it sounds though, the character I was hoping for isn't possible (a kensai with some low level magic abilities). From what I understood, I can start as a kensai and dual to a mage, but I would never be able to weild a sword and cast magic at the same time. Is that correct?

    This would be a brutal way to go about things even if possible, The strength of Kensei isn't to be a high level Kensei which will be a very weak fighter late game compared to other kits or even straight fighter, but to pick up 7-13 levels of Kensei then dual over to mage or thief where the "drawbacks" are next to nothing, you keep your THAC0 and other Kensi bonuses AND get various buffs defensive magic (to compensate for the no armor) and other abusive powers from the new class. You also have a very slow takeoff curve with HP and will have far lower HP later in the game.

    For example one of the best mage spells going in D&D is Stoneskins. You will NOT be able to get this with a mage then dual to fighter and ever see your mage abilities before the end of BG1 with the Xp cap. Having a Kensei without the various combat protection buffs defeats the whole purpose of that dual class! A thief can take HLA "Use Any Item" so now your Kensei has access to... well... any item (think of the possibilities).

    Trust the D&D veterans when we say that if you're going to slog through the first few character levels keeping a mage alive you're far better off just playing the straight mage who will become absurdly powerful late game. The late game strength is why you would even go through the effort of starting with a low level mage because they are so fragile early on.

    For the sake of argument what handful of low level mage spells do you really think would make a Kensei better? How many can you memorize at low levels? If you say level 2 spells for Mirror Image, why not level 3 for Ghost Armor? Why not level 4 for stoneskin? Why not simulacrum? See where this is going? A Kensei of very high level just isn't very good so a Kensei that can cast a couple magic missiles and one mirror image per day really only robs him of hitpoints and makes him an unarmored fighter who would be inferior for example, to a Monk who will get insanely powerful if you want to take an unarmored mele character through into ToB.

    If you're dead set on trying this, simply purchase the EE for your computer, install, and move the save from your phone/tablet over to the PC for editing. OR just upload your savegame file and I'm sure a member of this board would mod your character for you to suit your tastes.

    Hey, thanks! Good info there. For the sake of argument I was going to try and get a little creative with the spells. In the first play through I rarely led with my kensai. I had some boots of movement x2 (forget what they were called) and would send my kensai in to attack/retreat once my tank engaged the enemy.

    The tactic I had in mind for kensai/mage was to do something like Free Movement + web, then simply dice everyone to pieces with dual +3 ninjatos and all the bonuses to hit I can find :smiley:

    My kensai was actually the hardest hitting (damage per second) character in the part at end game. I am just looking for ways to roll one that is slightly more self sufficient, and that I don't have to micromanage so much to be effective. Often times my other party members would get killed or sit idle while I focused on the kensai.
  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    And actually, I think I might just take you up on your suggestion to simply hack the character rather than restart to kensai => mage. I am usually a purist when it come games (especially when I come across the occaisonal rare gem like BG), but the charter I described in my last post is really the one I want to play, even if it is more difficult. I am having fun just thinking about it! :)
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    It is no secret or spoiler that the maximum xp you can gain in BG1 is 161,000 - it is printed in the manual :)

    When you dual-class, you are still limited to this amount of total xp divided between your classes. You will not be able to gain any more xp in the original class (ever again!) but any excess xp over that needed for the level is 'lost', meaning it does not count against you total limit before hitting the cap.

    So a level 7 Kensai would take 64,000 xp, which leaves enough for the Mage to hit their 90,000 xp level, which is level 8. So yes, you can get back your Kensai abilities by the end of the first Baldur's Gate game, but it will be close to the end of the game (although you can hit the xp cap with a reasonable amount of end-game still to play).

    The biggest loss is that you will not hit level 9, where powerful 5th level spells become available, so you will be slightly down on a straight mage for magic - this will be quickly caught up in BG2 though. 7th level is a popular level to dual a kensai, partly because it is the highest level you can reach in BG1 and still regain its abilities by the end of the game, but also because all fighter classes and kits get a bonus 1/2 attack/round at 7th, which is a bonus you will keep until the end of the whole saga (at least, once you regain your Kensai abilities). Other popular choices are 9th, which is early in the second game and gives you maximum hit dice, and the 5th pip for grand master in your chosen weapon, or (less popular) 13th, which gives you the maximum number of attacks/round, but takes most of the second game to recover your lost abilities. To go any further suggests perhaps playing a multi-class, rather than a dual-class. The main drawback is that you cannot pick a kit for a multi-class (although gnome mages will get the illusionist kit for free) and fighters can put only 2 pips into any skill (3 for 2-weapon fighting).
  • drkstrdrkstr Member Posts: 10
    Lots of helpful and relevent feedback to ponder here... I'm torn! Haha.

    Thanks again for all the replies!
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