Watcher's Keep before Spellhold?

Thesblah

Has anyone killed ol' Demogorgon before heading to Spellhold? I'm currently playing a lawful evil blackguard that is in no hurry to save Imoen. I want to do every quest that I can before I run off to Brynnlaw.

Is doing Watcher's Keep before Spellhold feasible? Have any of you done it?

Tresset

Do you really expect a no to that question with all the powergamers here? Don't be silly!

joluv

I just hate doing Watcher's Keep without a Bag of Holding.

CaptRory

joluv said:

I just hate doing Watcher's Keep without a Bag of Holding.

You might wanna just make it your base of operations so you don't lose stuff during the switch over.

Gallowglass

@CaptRory - yes, I always shift my stash to WK shortly before finishing SoA, so that it'll still be accessible in ToB.

@Tresset - hmmm, no, your linked thread describes doing the first three levels of WK with a low-level party, but not killing Demogorgon (which is what the OP specifically asked).

I don't recall ever killing Demogorgon with a pre-Spellhold party, but I'm sure there's someone in the forum who'll have done it.

Actually, if you've got a decent Thief in the party and are willing to use traps to weaken him (even though you probably won't yet have Spike Traps, which can kill him outright), then I guess it shouldn't be impossibly difficult.

Heindrich

The problem with doing this is that once you've beaten basically the hardest content in the game (except perhaps the final battle vs Mel), everything else is going to feel anti-climatic as you stomp everything that gets in the way with uber loot from Watcher's Keep.

joluv

@CaptRory I usually stash my stuff at the Copper Coronet (as Joluvs are wont to do) until I have a Bag of Holding, then put everything in there. I'm often soloing or running a small party, though, and going through the maze level without a BoH means leaving a bunch of stuff behind. I guess I could go back through the maze to get it later, but that just seems like such a hassle, even if I'm just moving stuff up to the first level.

Mhamza

RP wise, I like to think that Charname hears a rumor that Imoen and Irenicus are in Watcher's Keep, and so I only do the first two levels before heading to Spellhold. The rest I finish in ToB.

Thesblah

Mhamza said:

RP wise, I like to think that Charname hears a rumor that Imoen and Irenicus are in Watcher's Keep, and so I only do the first two levels before heading to Spellhold. The rest I finish in ToB.

I try to tie Watcher's Keep into working for the temple of Helm in the Unseeing Eye quest. After I finish the Unseeing Eye quest, I imagine the high priest finding me worthy enough to mention that Watcher's Keep needs my help.

BaldursCat

CaptRory said:

joluv said:

I just hate doing Watcher's Keep without a Bag of Holding.

You might wanna just make it your base of operations so you don't lose stuff during the switch over.

This is possibly the most useful bit of info I've read here. On the subject of stashes, anyone else had theirs vanish?

GreenWarlock

Is the bag obtained from recruiting Hexxat not enough to support a run through WK? Especially with gem bags/potion cases/scroll cases/ammo belts taking care of specific content already?

I am currently deferring WK on my initial BG2 runs, as my first early run showed much degraded content and so lower XP awards - I believe (maybe unfounded) that if I come back at a higher level, then I will find a more serious challenge awaiting, along with higher rewards (if only xp).

I am not 100% clear if 'later' is immediately prior to spell hold, just before going to visit uncle Jon, or finally in ToB.

Arunsun

I would say "no" unless you have Hexxat. There are so many quest items you can't enjoy it without a bag of Holding.
But in terms of difficulty, well, no fight is difficult except for one in the final seal and Demogorgon itself, and even those you can cheese them.

joluv

Thesblah said:

I try to tie Watcher's Keep into working for the temple of Helm in the Unseeing Eye quest. After I finish the Unseeing Eye quest, I imagine the high priest finding me worthy enough to mention that Watcher's Keep needs my help.

This seems less anticlimactic than the Ring of Lathander quest.

hispls

I recall doing it quite early game when ToB first came out. Installing ToB and not really knowing where WK fit into the story line. What I took away from it was the it started off insanely difficult at low levels but there's so much XP in it that it becomes rather manageable as you go along and provided you have a decent party with a few HLAs you should be able to take him out without too much cheese.

Not sure about solo-ing him. That might be a chore at any level without abusing something.

Tresset

@Gallowglass I never said I beat Demogorgon, I just did Watchers Keep before Spellhold. I eventually lost that playthrough when my old computer blew up so I started over with a slightly different team and this time I made all the way to Demogorgon before I decided to save the rest for later.

CaptRory

joluv said:

@CaptRory I usually stash my stuff at the Copper Coronet (as Joluvs are wont to do) until I have a Bag of Holding, then put everything in there. I'm often soloing or running a small party, though, and going through the maze level without a BoH means leaving a bunch of stuff behind. I guess I could go back through the maze to get it later, but that just seems like such a hassle, even if I'm just moving stuff up to the first level.

It's been awhile since I've done Watcher's Keep. Could you store the stuff on each level then go collect it later? There's quest stuff but there's also tons of loot.

joluv

@CaptRory On Levels 1, 2, 4, and 5, you absolutely could. I often do Levels 1 and 2 before Spellhold (or all but Level 2's boss). On Level 3, I guess you could store stuff at Yakman's camp. The level is a maze, though, and I can never remember how it all fits together, so it would be a pain to keep going back to the stash spot. Definitely possible, but it never seems worth the trouble to me.

Mykra

Thesblah said:

Mhamza said:

RP wise, I like to think that Charname hears a rumor that Imoen and Irenicus are in Watcher's Keep, and so I only do the first two levels before heading to Spellhold. The rest I finish in ToB.

I try to tie Watcher's Keep into working for the temple of Helm in the Unseeing Eye quest. After I finish the Unseeing Eye quest, I imagine the high priest finding me worthy enough to mention that Watcher's Keep needs my help.

I like that reasoning.

I have done WK incredibly early in the game before, but now I tend to avoid it simply because it throws character levels/items out of whack for the rest of SoA. Even if you just raid the easier, top levels. I don't have anything against someone who does, I just personally don't like the early power-spike it can give you.

karnor00

I love the challenge of doing Watchers Keep at a very low level. But there's so much xp that it makes the rest of SoA much too easy.

Gallowglass

I like going to level 1 of WK before going to Spellhold, for the inventory-management convenience of buying a Potion Case and finding an Ammo Belt, but you can (and I often do) do that without activating the statues (and therefore without fighting the big end-of-level battle). That way, the XP boost is not huge and doesn't spoil the rest of SoA.

I find it RP-plausible that my party, after this early visit, then decides that it'd be wiser to leave the rest of WK until they're much stronger, and from a meta-gaming perspective it makes sense to leave it until end-SoA or early-ToB, so as not to make the rest of SoA trivially easy. Apart from moving my stash to the containers in the first level of WK just before the end of SoA, I don't usually go back to WK until I'm in ToB. Once I'm in ToB, I usually finish off WK (and then transfer my stash to the pocket plane) as soon as possible.

joluv

Yeah, no matter when I plan on entering WK, I almost always visit the exterior ASAP to get the Potion Case. I'm still kind of surprised that EE didn't add a Potion Case to the Adventurer's Mart or something, considering one was added to High Hedge.