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Improved invisibility question

FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Neera just learned Improved Invisibility. I haven't tested it out yet, but the basic concept is that after attacking, the mage becomes only partially visible; the enemy knows he/she is there but has a harder time hitting them. But, she has the cloak of non-detection as well. Does this restore her to full invisibility after attacking?

OK, logically I'd think this would at the very least help somewhat as far as remaining out of sight, but I suspect that from a game designer's viewpoint it would be considered too OP, so probably not. Would be nice though.

Comments

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2015
    FrdNwsm said:

    Neera just learned Improved Invisibility. I haven't tested it out yet, but the basic concept is that after attacking, the mage becomes only partially visible; the enemy knows he/she is there but has a harder time hitting them. But, she has the cloak of non-detection as well. Does this restore her to full invisibility after attacking?

    OK, logically I'd think this would at the very least help somewhat as far as remaining out of sight, but I suspect that from a game designer's viewpoint it would be considered too OP, so probably not. Would be nice though.

    Improved Invisibility gives you an additional:

    +4 AC
    +4 Saving throws
    After you attack you'll be visible but you still can't be targeted by spells.

    Having the cloak of non detection won't make you fully invisible again after attacking, all it does is that the enemy won't be able to detect you while you're invisible.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    The cloak of non-detection is complicated.
  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    >>The cloak of non-detection is complicated.<<

    Could you be a bit more enigmatic?

    Also, I love the way folks you meet by chance ask you to go wander the wilds and get their precious magic item back for them. "Search the Cloakwood for your cloak of non-detection, instead of giving it to my mage with all the invisibility potions? Of course, right away sir!". This is why MyChar is always true neutral; moral flexibility. Some paladin or lawful good cleric might insist on actually committing such folly.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    You might try returning it to Gurke sometime, just to see what happens.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    FrdNwsm said:

    >>The cloak of non-detection is complicated.<<

    Could you be a bit more enigmatic?</p>

    More enigmatic than the cloak itself? Not possible!

    That cloak is very strange in that it will protect only very specific invisibility spells/effects from very specific spells and effects that try to remove them. I do not understand the whats and whys of the specifics of this cloak's function.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    Ah, I looked up the opcode on the iesdp. I am pretty sure I get it now, but explaining what I have just comprehended to someone who doesn't know anything about the Infinity Engine would be near impossible.

    I may decide to mod the cloak at some point so that it is not all but useless in BG2. Yes! I could see it becoming an item of actual power and cheese already! Mind you, what I have in mind is definitely not on the par with the level of cheese that certain other items in BG2 have (such as the Cloak of Mirroring), but it will at least be able to compete with them at least a little and become a viable piece of equipment in its own right!
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    I was under the impression that the Cloak of Non-Detection only helped thieves and rangers with the hide ability?

    I second returning the cloak to Gurke to see what happens.
  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    >> I was under the impression that the Cloak of Non-Detection only helped thieves and rangers with the hide ability?<<

    From the description ...
    Whispers of Silence: While hidden or invisible, the wearer is undetectable by means such as detect invisible or scrying. Usable by all classes except Wizard Slayer.

    Doesn't sound like it.

    >>I second returning the cloak to Gurke to see what happens.<<

    Not an option; there's no way MyChar would do such a thing.
  • MhamzaMhamza Member Posts: 228
    @FrdNwsm If you try to return the cloak, Gurke lets you keep it instead.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    FrdNwsm said:

    >> I was under the impression that the Cloak of Non-Detection only helped thieves and rangers with the hide ability?<<

    From the description ...
    Whispers of Silence: While hidden or invisible, the wearer is undetectable by means such as detect invisible or scrying. Usable by all classes except Wizard Slayer.

    Doesn't sound like it. </p>

    But I'm not sure I've ever encountered an enemy using Detect Invisibility or scrying (?). Does anyone in BG1 ever use anything like that? And in BG2, enemy casters use True Seeing. In my experience, the cloak stops True Seeing from detecting stealthed characters, but not invisible characters.
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  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    This is the description of the opcode copied from the IESDP:

    #69 (0x69) Protection: From Detection (Non-Detection) [69]
    Parameter #1: Irrelevant
    Parameter #2: Irrelevant
    Description:
    Applies the non-detection effect to the targeted creature(s), setting STATE_NONDETECTION while active. This effect is negated by effect #70 Cure: Non-Detection. While in the non-detection state, the creature is immune to effects #47: Cure Invisibility and #116: Remove invisibilty, though they are affected by effects that remove illusionary protections by school or secondary type.
  • GreenWyvernGreenWyvern Member Posts: 247
    subtledoctor said:

    FrdNwsm said:

    Also, I love the way folks you meet by chance ask you to go wander the wilds and get their precious magic item back for them. "Search the Cloakwood for your cloak of non-detection, instead of giving it to my mage with all the invisibility potions? Of course, right away sir!". This is why MyChar is always true neutral; moral flexibility. Some paladin or lawful good cleric might insist on actually committing such folly.

    If you're finding and taking other people's stuff, I don't think that's "moral flexibility" do much as straight-up "immorality." :P

    Way I see it, a Good character would go out of their way to find and return someone's stuff; an Evil character would find and keep someone's stuff; and a Neutral character just wouldn't bother in the first place - not his stuff, but not his problem either.
    Gameplay-wise, that makes the neutral character feel less benefited, though. The good characters will get EXP [and maybe gold], while the evil characters will get the usefulness out of the items [or, gold from selling the items]. The neutral character would miss out in this case, going "I won't bother" to everything.

    Perhaps the neutral character could see it in a different way? Instead of going "I should be good" or "I should be NOT good", the neutral character should see if it's worth his time and effort to return it, or pocket the item himself, unless of course we are speaking of a Lawful Neutral character whom doesn't want to upset the law, or a True Neutral character whom dislikes the idea of stealing.

    I'm not sure, I'm still pretty new to this, but I feel like alignments should have a bit of flexibility depending on the deeper personality of the said character. Not all True Neutrals would react the same, especially depending on the situation. If someone accidentally dropped a purse of gold and didn't notice, the True Neutral might return it, given it's a simple task, but if a purse lies on the ground with nobody around, they might snatch it, thinking they'll never find the owner. Then again, I use "might" a lot.

    ... wait, this is a thread about improved invisibility...

    ... uh...

    ... I'm sorry...

    *Hides in shadow and runs*
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  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    I finally got around to posting my mod which rebalances the stupid cloak to make it actually useful. Check it out if you want.
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