Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

An In-depth look at the Wizard Slayer Kit suggestions to improve it (For Phil's Reddit request)



  • RadwulfRadwulf Member Posts: 49
    I think that giving the Wizard Slayer magic resistance was wrong. Wizard Slayers should be advantaged against mages but their survivability is too poor as the low MR doesn't protect consistently until very high levels and you have to forgo melee, elemental resistance and status protections from items to get it. Protection from magic should be significant even at early levels but high levels of MR would make the class overpowered.

    Each of the fighter kits are themed. The Kensai sacrifices melee defence for offence whereas the Berserker sacrifices range for status protections. The Wizard Slayer's theme should be spell disruption and protection from magic *damage*. With 5% a level the WS would be immune to magic damage by level 20 which is a significant advantage and fair trade for the loss of effects and flexibility from items but would still be vulnerable to status effects so not overpowered. It would provide survivability, effectiveness from early on and be true to the lore of the class.

  • MechaliburMechalibur Member Posts: 265
    It always confused me why wizard slayers are able to wear boots, but not metal gauntlets. I would figure that if either qualified as magic armor, it would be the gauntlets.

    Also, for some reason, they're able to wear the magic amulet Ellesime gives you. Not complaining though, 10% magic resist and +1 saves never hurt.

    Personally, I think the best way to do their magic resist would have a base value that increases each level, so even at level 1, you have a reasonable chance to resist spells. Something like 20% + 1%/level or +2%/level.

  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited November 2012
    Rebalancing a class means more than just applying more benefits.

    View my thread on Monk rebalancing for an example of changes which include adding both benefits and deficiencies.

    Post edited by bigdogchris on
  • RadwulfRadwulf Member Posts: 49
    Perhaps but the issue with the Wizard Slayer is that the benefits and disadvantages are not balanced. It is a bit silly that an anti mage specialised class has such limited survivability against spells until well into epic levels and the Berserker already covers status defence right from the start so MR resistance overlaps with that class somewhat insofar as it works. Not to mention that the Berserker's disadvantages are minimal (just specialise in a melee weapon that includes a throwable version like axes) and is perhaps imbalanced.

    The class's disadvantages are significant, always an issue and present from the start. Its advantages in offence are good in miscast magic, something you get at first level, but its advantages in defence are effectively tactically redundant for most of the game as it is so unreliable and the loss of item's abilities outweighs the WS offensive advantages. Changing the nature and timing of its defensive advantages seems reasonable from a balancing point of view.

    The only real disadvantage I see with this is the class plateaus at level 20 if its abilities are 10% miscast magic and 5% magic damage resistance until level 20 (ie. 100%). To deal with this you could introduce a shatter magic ability which acts like a level 9 breach spell allowing the wizard slayer to bring down a combat protection so he can start to apply his miscast magic. At early levels this could be overpowered but if he got it once a day at level 20 and every n levels afterword he wouldn't be that strong compared to a Carsomyr wielding paladin.

    If the increased level of survivability along with the miscast magic is considered imbalanced you could try reducing miscast magic to 5% or drawing the benefits out (say 2% increase every 4 levels to level twenty rounding out at 10%).

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    The real underlying problem of the wizard slayer class is not how powerful or not it is which can obviously be changed, it's that it takes away the excitement of finding shiny magical loot. Your wizard slayer is about as kitted out as they are ever going to be by about level 4.

  • RadwulfRadwulf Member Posts: 49
    Well it is a kit and kits tend to specialise and give significant advantages as well as disadvantages. The Kensai also greatly restricts the items you can wear but I don't hear as many complaints about that. If I remember correctly a WS cannot use belts, rings, amulets, cloaks or gauntlets in terms of items. Of these you can still wear the powerful amulet of Seldarine as well as the 25 level cleric deity ring if you dual.

    Now the gauntlet limitation makes little sense to me as it's an armour piece (surely?) but the others tend to provide a number of armour and saving throw bonuses as well as increases in resistance. As far as I'm concerned boosting magic damage resistance would achieve much that increased saves and resistances would. It is a straight trade of guaranteed powerful magic damage resistance all the time against item customisation and potential status immunities.

    The redundancy of certain item types only becomes an issue if you're soloing and you will still be able to use newer and better weapons, shields, helmets, boots and armour. Furthermore what you lack in using new loot you can make up for with a new nearly unique tactical approach to spell caster fights. If the WS was given access to gauntlets, this would seem a fair trade off for me.

    If you don't like the nature of the restrictions then you'll have to recommend a replacement. The key problem is that as the WS is potentially such a powerful class it needs significant restrictions.

Sign In or Register to comment.