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diffence between these spells?

ameliabogginsameliaboggins Member Posts: 287
theresthe cacodemon spells at lvl 6or7

and summon pitfiend at 9 ?

The pitfiend seems rather underpowered for a lvl 9 spell, its hits about as hard as a spastic girl.

Where are the stats listed on these mobs?

I havent tried the summon armour from burial isle, keep forgetting!(old age and incontinence)

Am guessing its the most powerful of the demon types? Actually i may have tried it once, but it just got stuck on the landscape and couldnt move.

So far Am finding the most useful of the summoned mobs are the magic eating things, so far i havent had any die on me....make superb tanks, esp against casters. Not much dps though!

Anyone suggest the best use for `call woodland beings`? the nymph seems rather situational?

Comments

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    edited April 2015
    If you want to look at the exact differences, check the .cre files in EEKeeper or use an IE engine editor to peek at hidden values.

    Roughly speaking, a Pit Fiend is simply a more powerful demon; better stats, saves, improved immunities and abilities etc. For the details, see above.

    Personally I don't like the demon summons at all though. They seem a bit awkward in terms of risk/reward and cost/performance.

    elminster
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,063
    I recommend using SCS' or aTweaks' Improved Fiends. They make Pit Fiends a force to be reckoned with.

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,945

    (old age and incontinence)

    TMI

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,592

    a Pit Fiend is simply a more powerful demon

    Oh my. Better not mention that line anywhere near the Blood War. Might be unhealthy. :open_mouth:

    GoturalGod
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,063
    edited April 2015
    Eh, use either of those terms out on the planes and you're like to get your bone-box rattled. It's "Baatezu" and "Tanar'ri," berk.

    EDIT - where did this distinction between "demons" and "devils" come from anyway? It always struck me as a silly and forced distinction, just trying too hard to create a distinction between two words that are roughly interchangeable in common parlance.

    Whereas, it seemed to make much more sense to use proper names for different species like Baatezu, Tanar'ri, and Yugoloth, while acknowledging they all fall under the rubric of "Fiends," i.e. demons, in the common sense of the word...

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,215


    Anyone suggest the best use for `call woodland beings`? the nymph seems rather situational?

    yeah, rather. but having the nymph on the side being able to cast dispel, miscast magic etc can be essential for a particular strategy.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    edited April 2015
    IIRC the whole demon devil whatever BS started because nice Christian moms overheard their teenage sons talk about them while playing D&D, and naturally assumed that they were one step away from going out sacrificing newborn children to the Dark Lord. So now we've got Baatezu and Tana'ri and everyone is confused.

    To me, they're all demons. Screw the Blood War.

    subtledoctorelminster
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,063
    Ha ha I know that's why they adopted the Planescape terminology when TSR tip-toed back into the lower planes in the mid-90s. What I don't get is why they adopted the split between "demons" and "devils" back in 1e.

    The monsters are based on what we commonly think of as demons, so why not just say "lawful demons" and "chaotic demons?"

    To assert "that fiery, red, horned, bat-winged thing from some variant of hell isn't a demon, it's a devil" just seems silly.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Isn't that what the whole Blood War is about? Millennia of the terriblest atrocities just because they can't agree on a name.

  • ameliabogginsameliaboggins Member Posts: 287
    edited April 2015
    `the split between "demons" and "devils" back in 1e`

    actually there is an occult reason for this split. HOwever I cant say why Ggygax et al put it into ad&d....unless they were closet devil worshipers :open_mouth:

    Officially demons came from the disembodied nephilim* that were killed in the flood. Whereas devils were fallen angels who existed on another plane/dimensions.....in general they were unable to visit the prime plane/earth.....unless summoned, or a rent in the veil being made by some `event`.

    *human/angel hybrids

    I could go into more detail, but thats the gist of the thing. I dont know exactly where the writers of AD&D got their basis for Eschatology from.....how many virgins were sacrificed, before they found out the differnce between devil/demon.....?!

    see also:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus
    book of enoch, which says that 200 angels who came to earth to create the hybrids, were imprisoned in a dungeon dimension.

    The angels weere made maybe hundereds of thousands of years ago, in a place outside of time(am just giving a rough guess when) they ar far more powrful/intelligent than the nephilim, who are runts in comparison: hence devils being seen as ruling over demons.


    FinneousPJGod
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,330
    I always though the distinction with Demons and Devils was one was a race of chaotic creatures and the other a race of lawful creatures. Demons=Chaotic, Devils=Lawful. Suppose I'm wrong though, lol.

    semiticgod
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,063
    Vallmyr said:

    I always though the distinction with Demons and Devils was one was a race of chaotic creatures and the other a race of lawful creatures. Demons=Chaotic, Devils=Lawful. Suppose I'm wrong though, lol.

    Yeah the question is, why did the originals DnD writer folk use those words - demon and devil - which have established commonplace meanings that have nothing to do with law or chaos? Seems kinda dumb...

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,840
    I've always liked the Gate spell in Baldur's Gate 2. It can be quite devastating (but certainly not as deva-stating as Summon Planetar) and I like how it requires some skill to use: if you aren't careful, the Pit Fiend will dispel your Protection from Evil! It's even cooler in Icewind Dale, where there's no Summon Planetar spell to overshadow it.

    FinneousPJJuliusBorisovsemiticgod
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