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Elemental bug?

I am not sure what elementals look like, but I envisage them as being masses of whatever element, shaped into a humanoid form. Going through the sewers on the eyeless cult quest, Jaheira called up one of her ever helpful fire elementals; we were using it to scout ahead. Not to give things away too much, there was an area where a trap went off, and another where the elemental fought an Otyugh. HOW do you give a fire elemental a disease? And HOW do you hit one with a web? Wouldn't a walking mass of fire just burn through a web? Apparently not. I can see a web giving an earth elemental a few seconds pause (before it tore the web to shreds) but fire?? Working as intended, or some sort of bug?

Comments

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    edited April 2015
    It is working as intended. The game tends to play by its own rules which are often unrelated to common sense.
  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    Well, poop! :neutral:
  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    How come there are no frowning smileys? OK, that sounds like an oxymoron but still ... everybody is supposed to make only happy-faced comments here? :P
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Yeah, this is one of those things you really wish you had a DM for. The game can't possibly cover all contingencies, so in some cases you get results that don't actually make sense. Not a bug per se, but probably not the way the game should work either.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited April 2015
    If a fire elemental were immune to web then wouldnt an air elemental be immune to all physical damage?
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  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    "If a fire elemental were immune to web then wouldn't an air elemental be immune to all physical damage?"

    As far as I know, it is. That is to say, immune to normal weapons. Here's where enchanted weapons come into play. They can hit an air elemental because ::insert drumroll here:: They're MAGICAL! Magic, by definition, is not subject to normal natural laws of physics. If you must have a rationale, the magical field surrounding the enchanted weapon disrupts the magic holding the air elemental together into one coherent form.

    (Fantasy authors can justify any sort of nonsense by saying "it's magic!").
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137

    No, that's a liquid metal elemental...

    Alex Mack??
  • reap_iireap_ii Member Posts: 43
    Magical disease from otyugh and magic webbing resistant to fire. Seems legit.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,522
    joluv said:

    No, that's a liquid metal elemental...

    Alex Mack??
    it's a secret ;)

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited April 2015
    FrdNwsm said:

    "If a fire elemental were immune to web then wouldn't an air elemental be immune to all physical damage?"

    As far as I know, it is. That is to say, immune to normal weapons.

    All elementals you encounter are going to be at the very least immune to normal and +1 weapons. Regardless of whether they are fire, earth, or air elementals. At least in BG2 anyways.
    Post edited by elminster on
  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    "All elementals you encounter are going to be at the very least immune to normal and +1 weapons"

    This was rather my point; I was replying to the poster who specified air elementals, but my original post referred to fire. Now, later on my elementals proved supreme in this particular quest line. They pretty much ran amok and nothing could hurt them. Undead, gauths, shadow fiends all fell like ten pins. I have a suspicion that the problem lay with this particular room. The designer said "Anything that enters the room gets webbed" and coded it so.

    "Magical disease from otyugh and magic webbing resistant to fire. Seems legit."

    Sorry, have to disagree. A disease requires a physical body to infect, webbing, even if you want to specify it as fire-resistant (which, admittedly, it could be) needs something physical to catch onto. I'd be willing to concede, for example, that an earth elemental could be hindered by a web. Air, water or fire? Not likely.

    P.S. What the heck is a gauth? It looked like a mini beholder with what appeared to be some sort of gaze attacks, but I never encountered that name before. There was a spot where I encountered 4-5 of the beggers; they were ripping me up until
    i ran back out of sight and just sent a fire elemental in their general direction. I didn't even have to keep the combat in sight; the elemental homed in on them one after the other once it sighted them. I just sat back and watched the gauth death notices appear.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,522
    I try not to think about the physics because it's magic. None of it makes perfect sense.

    Gauths are beholderkin. There is enough info on them on the Web
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    I hope people realize that you can only apply rules like physics or laws of nature as we understand them within a world THAT ACTUALLY FOLLOWS THOSE RULES.

    In a fictional world, the rules may be completely different. "A disease requires a physical body to infect" for example only holds true in a framework of rules that actually demand that; but in a world where so much is happening outside of the rules WE know (we are after all talking about sentient fire beings here) there is NOTHING saying that OUR rules have to hold true the way WE understand them.

    In fact, the rules we know are only rules BECAUSE we know them to follow certain patterns. If we found them following other patterns, we'd revise the rules. Clearly the patterns different within the world of BG, and so the rules must be as well. You can't just take our rules and apply them to a different framework. That would be like saying "you can't move the knight backward in chess, because you can't do it in shougi".

    Of course there's also the whole artistic license thing. This fictional world is not intended to be a comprehensively constructed reality. While some self-consistency is definitely a sign of good world building, it is by no means required to be as thorough and comprehensive as the laws of nature in our world.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    FrdNwsm said:

    I have a suspicion that the problem lay with this particular room. The designer said "Anything that enters the room gets webbed" and coded it so.

    Nope. That is a web just like the one you can cast. Very few things are immune to web unless they have free action.
  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    edited April 2015
    "Gauths are beholderkin. There is enough info on them on the Web"

    Unfortunately, you have to know something exists before you can do a web search for it. I had never come across the term before 10 hours ago.

  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    edited April 2015
    OK, fine; I'll accept that webs can work on immaterial beings. I guess I could use the same logical train of thought I used when talking about magical weapons hurting elementals. The magical field surrounding the web holds onto the magical energy keeping the elementals together, and prevents movement.

    Indeed, the use of magic does sort of relegate logic to the back burner. I think a quote from Mr. Spock would be appropriate here: "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers that smells bad."

    (True trekkies will recognize the episode that this totally out of character quote comes from)
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,266
    @FrdNwsm I, Mudd. One of my favorite episodes. :)
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680
    Also the disease pretty clearly has to be magical - it starts doing damage within seconds of being inflicted.

    No real world disease acts this fast - even the fastest will take about an hour to have an impact.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Don't fire elementals do physical damage, in addition to fire? That suggests the web would have something to latch onto, at least. Granted, the web not burning is contrary to most editions of D&D, but honestly D&D tends to massively exaggerate the flammability of webs anyway.

    Honestly, elementals are pretty weird to begin with. I'm not a fan of the whole "it works because it's magic, even though the magic isn't specified to so that" argument, but elementals don't really follow anything resembling physics to begin with. So once we posit that they exist, I'm willing to accept that they interact strangely with other entities, because they already do.
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