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The canon party... sucks?

theJoshFrosttheJoshFrost Member Posts: 171
edited August 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
So, while I played a lot of Baldur's Gate when I was younger, I never actually managed to complete it until last year some time. And in doing this, I played with the supposed 'canon' party, that being Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, and Dynaheir. Am I the only one that thinks this party make up sucks? I was a Necromancer, btw.

Jaheira did alright with healing in the beginning and middle, but towards the end it just wasn't enough. And Dynaheir is awful. I was really tempted to let her die and go back and get Xan or some body else. Definitely won't be using this party in BG:EE.

Any one else share my sentiments?
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Comments

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    They're only the "canon" party because of a shitty novel and because the intro to BG2 was lazy and poorly implemented.
  • theJoshFrosttheJoshFrost Member Posts: 171
    Schneidend said:

    They're only the "canon" party because of a shitty novel and because the intro to BG2 was lazy and poorly implemented.

    That novel really was bad. I tried to read it. The key word being "tried".

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    I finished it. The only idea I liked was the explanation/setup for Jaheira being so hot to trot after Khalid's demise.

    The duel between Abdel and Sarevok was pretty cool, too, though Sarevok was a Fighter/Wizard somehow.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited August 2012
    That book really was awful. I finished it as well. It was just bad. I don't think I liked any aspect of it, gotta say.

    And, agreed, the canon party is pretty bad.
  • CCarluNNCCarluNN Member Posts: 200
    Minsc is the best canon member. I will have him in my party from Nashkel to the Mana Forge.
  • raywindraywind Member Posts: 289
    Only useable from those is imoen with thieving skills before you can pick someone better up others are just plain useless. Allways playing Evil so that might affect my oppinion.
  • theJoshFrosttheJoshFrost Member Posts: 171
    Jolanthus said:

    People think Dynaheir sucks because they can't play the game without summoning monsters to fight their battles for them. Plus the abundance of invoker in a stick (wands of fireball, lightning bolt, magic missile) mean there is no need to worry about losing those spells.

    You're partially right. I still think she sucks, but I did cheese my way through a lot those games. Especially Sarevok and Irenicus. Never claimed to be a BG expert :D

  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Lack of range users and clerics kills the canon party. And Dynaheir. Basically the canon party lacks all the good stuff. Imoen alone cant carry the party, especially considering being the only thief she must invest in traps and locks which wastes her potential.
  • BlaveBlave Member Posts: 39
    Fun fact: When I played BG1 for the first time, it was before even TotSC was released, let alone BG2. After re-rolling many many many many times and trying to grasp the rules (I was like 13 or 14 and had never even heard of DnD), I settled with a Cleric. And by pure chance the party I got was exactly this "canon" party!

    Yes, there are better NPCs out there. But if a 14 year old who has no clue what he is even doing can finish the game with them, it can't be all that bad, can it?

    Anyway, for me, this was always the one true canon party and always will be!
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    It's not a bad party. Jaheira can be pretty mean in melee while buffed up on Druid dope, Minsc is a powerhouse by himself, Khalid gets to be a very decent tank with a good shield and the gauntlets of ogre power and Dynaheir's filled with Magic Missles and Fireballs, what's not to love?

    It may not be optimal or your personal choice, but it doesn't suck by a long shot (Garrick, Eldoth, Skie, Tiax and Quale as a party would suck).
  • Doom972Doom972 Member Posts: 150
    The canon party works best with the hero being a cleric, but even then it's not the ideal party mianly because Khalid and Jaheira. Khalid is a weak fighter and Jaheira, in addition to being weak, has a class that doesn't contribute much to that party.
    I don't accept that canon. As far as I'm concerned, my character started travelling with that party after the events of BG1.
  • Jean_LucJean_Luc Member Posts: 228
    The biggest problem with the "canon party", imo, is that it comes with so many damn pairs. For the price of Minsc and Jaheira you have to sacrifice 4 character slots. Add Imoen and that's it.

    There should've been 2-3 canon characters who are close to the PC with at least 2 slots being left for "experimentation", a happy middle ground allowing you to be "canon" while also having some fun on the side.

    Maybe if that BG2 start got reworked somehow.

  • artificial_sunlightartificial_sunlight Member Posts: 601
    There is no real mention that Dynaheir is killed just before BG2 as far as I know. Sow thats the first slot :p

    And I think the ToB book is not really bad. The prologe is pretty good if you ask me.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    I think I tried it once and it found was neither satisfying or memorable. Agree with OP.

    All in all, for my taste the carry-over of BG1 characters to BG2 works out fine. We've got Imoen (no choice there, but I always liked the character to begin with). And we can choose Minsc and Jaheira at the very start, and shortly thereafter Viconia and Edwin. But by the time I'm starting SoA I'm ready to start building a party from new NPCs anyway.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    artificial_sunlight said:

    There is no real mention that Dynaheir is killed just before BG2 as far as I know. Sow thats the first slot :p

    And I think the ToB book is not really bad. The prologe is pretty good if you ask me.

    Sadly, Minsc tells you himself that Dynaheir was killed by the captors :/
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    @theJoshFrost Believe it or not I actually finished BG for the first time with exactly the same group, whilst being a Necromancer! Jinx! (Can't remember the quest exactly but I remember meeting a Necromancer wanting a necklace or something in Baldur's Gate and you got really chummy with him, meet him as any other character type and you are horrified!)

    The group isn't that sucky... It's just not power / I will kill everyone with two hits kinda orientated. Imeon has the thieving skills, okayish with shortbow. Jaheria healed and was pretty good back up fighter to protect the mages. Khalid I shielded up to the max and allowed him to wade in first, then when everyone was hitting and beating up Khalid, Minsc would wade in to actually do the killing. My Necromancer and Dynahier would blast away from behind (my wall of!) Jaheria with whatever spells we had at that particular momment.

    Sometimes I moved (my wall of) Jaheria to help... As soon as I did this a gibberling or a squirrel would appear and kill me or Dynahier. Minsc would then go crazy and kill everyone! Them were the days...
  • AenorAenor Member Posts: 64
    I've always found the canon party a blast to play. Versatile and fun characters all around.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    I don't think that this "canon" party sucks and I don't agree about many members of it being weak. I personally think that in this team there is no weak characters. There are only players who are unable to raise them well.

    The party isn't that interesting either. I can't understand thought why so many people are so butthurt over it being "canon" in BG2. It doesn't matter, since after exiting Irenicus' dungeon you are free to pick a party you like the best. Is half an hour in prologue of the game so unberable to players? Seriously?
  • SneakyDumplingSneakyDumpling Member Posts: 6
    Of the group you are lumped with I tend to only keep Minsc and occassionally Jahiera when I play BG II. The former being hilarious and a bit of powerhouse with Lilacor. And the latter being good infill until you sort out a better fighter and or healer (see Aerie and Keldorn)

    Although one thing I did like about BG II was that the developers killed off the 'weaker' parts of the pairings. Khalid and Dynahier were OK but nothing special whereas Minsc and occasionally Jaheira would actually shine.

    Be damned if I lump myself with them when I boot up BG EE though.... Maybe once their partners are 'missing'.

    Mwahahaha
  • recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 692
    I played through with the canon party once - maybe twice.
    I didn't think it was so bad, really. Khalid isn't the best fighter, but he's still a fighter. So he has good AC and HP, and could hold the front with Jahiera, with Minsc did damage, as did myself, Dynaheir, and Imoen (as a rather low-level mage, not yet Thief again, I believe. But using wands where her own spells didn't suffice).
    There are better combinations though. Try using the BG2 characters from BG1. Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Edwin and Viconia. Now that works ;)
  • FaranorFaranor Member Posts: 10
    Aenor said:

    I've always found the canon party a blast to play. Versatile and fun characters all around.

    One of the things about BGEE that gives me a headache is when I try to think which cannon NPCS will get the boot in order to play the game with the new Characters. Although when i first completed BG my party was consisted of Khalid, Jaheira, Xan, Kivan, Yeslick and my fighter/mage (with Imoen on rotation) after completing BG2 i got so hooked up by the story that i could not play BG with any other party other than the cannon. needless to say that no matter how many times i played BG2 none of the cannon NPCs left the party. What can i say? I guess i'm an addict...
  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308
    @Schneidend

    My flying cow fought him in melee combat, does that make the Temple a zoo? Mind you, it also killed me.

    @Faranor

    I generally used the 'canon party' but always took my sweet time to recruit Minsc and Dynaheir to use as many npcs for as long as possible: Kagain, Garrick and so on. So depending on the time you can recruit and do the main quests with the three new NPCs, I might be able to use them for at least a while.
  • g314g314 Member Posts: 201
    Schneidend said:

    They're only the "canon" party because of a shitty novel and because the intro to BG2 was lazy and poorly implemented.

    Here is your moment of Zen.

    I played TotSC for the first time only after I finished ToB. Then I read the books. Then I realized.

    So I did the following:

    Installed BG1 + TotSC. Seen Mission Pack default save. Loaded default save. Seen the 'canon' party. Seen Abdel (a human, blue-haired Drow???).

    "Abdel deleted. Goodbye Abdel..." (paraphrasing from Portal 2)

    Moved on and started a completely new game.
  • AliteriAliteri Member Posts: 308
    Schneidend said:

    They're only the "canon" party because of a shitty novel and because the intro to BG2 was lazy and poorly implemented.

    I'm told the poor guy had to write that thing in a weekend.
  • blatantninjablatantninja Member Posts: 29
    My first play through of BG1, I had left it with permanent death on. I really wanted to keep Minsc, but couldn't stand Dynaheir. By chance, she got killed, and happily Minsc stuck around! Soon after, I found myself plotting Khalid's untimely death as well.

    In BG1, I experimented with several party formations in different play throughs, though Imoen and Jaheria always were in there. In BG2 though, I always find myself falling into the same rut. I guess it's because of the much better party banter in it, but I end up feeling bad if I don't take Aiere along for instance.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I use Khalid for the sake of Jaheira. Which is entirely different from how I used to think of them (Keep Jaheira for the sake of Khalid).

    My first play-through of BG:EE, I might ditch all of the canon party members and try to recruit some new blood. I'm thinking Neera, Edwin, Rasaad, Imoen (she's compulsory), and...Kivan, I guess. Which means I'll have to play a cleric. Edwin might end up getting himself killed, but it'll be worth it.
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