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[Windows - Steam] Bug with combat rolls.

DruericDrueric Member Posts: 42
edited April 2015 in BGII:EE Bugs (v1.3.2064)
Sorry I wish I knew how to make and post a screenshot of this, but ill describe it best I can.

I was watching the combat text play out in the early game and what I saw was perplexing. Looked something like this...

Drueric attacks ogre mage (12+5=17 Miss)
Minsc attacks ogre mage (14+3=17 Hit)
Minsc does 15 damage
Ogre mage - Death

Can anyone explain to me why an attack roll with the same result in the same round misses and the other hits? This is the ogre mage that the djinn spawns after asking you a riddle in the starting dungeon. I saw those attacks and I am like... dafuq?

My Base THACO was 14, with +5 to hit from str and profiencies which makes it a THACO 9 In order for a roll of 17 to miss, the ogre mage would have to have -9 armor class. there isnt even any spell protections he could have casted in the 3-4 rounds he existed to give him a -9 AC. Its impossible. There must be a bug. Because Minsc was able to hit with the same roll, this leads me to believe only the protagonist character is affected.

Again I really wish I had a screenshot of this to prove but trust me it happened exactly as I illustrated.
Post edited by Drueric on

Comments

  • EnderSembienEnderSembien Member Posts: 7
    edited April 2015
    What is the base thac0 of Minsc in this situation ?
    Also, the +5 bonus is added to your roll, either you consider that your score has to be 14+ to hit CA0 after adding 5 to your d20 score or you consider that your d20 roll alone has to be superior to 9 to hit someone with CA0. But it's not correct to think that if your d20 roll +5 is equal or superior to 9, you should hit a AC0 enemy. Either way, it means that this ogre mage must have a AC inferior to -3 and not -8 to avoid your hit.
    Let's say for example that the ogre mage has a AC of -4 and that your Minsc has a base thac0 of 13 or lower at that time, then it would be normal for him to hit and you to miss.
    Post edited by EnderSembien on
  • DruericDrueric Member Posts: 42
    edited April 2015
    Most of what you just said makes little sense. If I have thaco 9, and the ogre mage has -4 AC, I need to roll a 13+ to hit. Its not complicated, pretty simple math really.

    Both myself, and Minsc have the same base thaco. The difference is I have a grandmastery and he doesnt. Thats why i have +5 and he has +3 to hit. Which translates to 9 thaco, and minsc with 11 thaco. no matter how you try to spin it, Drueric has a better chance to hit and should have hit before minsc would with the same dice roll.

    Our base Thaco is 14. I dont beleive a summoned ogre mage even has an ac of 0. A 3 or 4 maybe.

    The fact is, with a thaco of 9, I can hit a target with a -8 armor class or weaker with a roll of 17. Where Minsc, could not have. For minsc to hit armor class -8, he would have to roll 19.

    So, yes, there is a bug.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    What weapons were you and Minsc using? The Ogre Mage may have different AC against different types of physical damage.
  • DruericDrueric Member Posts: 42
    edited April 2015
    I was using a halbard, minsc - 2h sword. Both are bladed weapons. Ogres do not have any special resistances
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited April 2015
    Drueric said:

    My Base THACO was 14, with +5 to hit from str and profiencies which makes it a THACO 9 In order for a roll of 17 to miss, the ogre mage would have to have -9 armor class. there isnt even any spell protections he could have casted in the 3-4 rounds he existed to give him a -9 AC. Its impossible.

    You're double-counting your THAC0 bonuses. All your to-hit bonuses are included in the attack roll, so when you're comparing the final result to see if you hit, you look at your base THAC0. I believe this is what @EnderSembien was trying to say. So the Ogre would only require an AC of -4 for you to miss.

    That being said, the fact that you missed while Minsc hit despite both having the same attack roll and base THAC0 makes no sense.
    joluv said:

    What weapons were you and Minsc using? The Ogre Mage may have different AC against different types of physical damage.

    I'm fairly sure that AC bonuses/penalties vs. different types of physical attacks are lumped into the attack roll calculation.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    TJ_Hooker said:

    I'm fairly sure that AC bonuses/penalties vs. different types of physical attacks are lumped into the attack roll calculation.

    That's what I thought too, but the situation was weird enough to make me wonder if I was wrong. Turns out "iogremage" doesn't have any damage type AC bonuses anyway (which may be what OP meant by "Ogres do not have any special resistances").

    Now I'm wondering if the Ogre Mage cast Ghost Armor. Even if it was cast before either attack, could the effect have been momentarily delayed?
  • EnderSembienEnderSembien Member Posts: 7
    Drueric said:

    Most of what you just said makes little sense. If I have thaco 9, and the ogre mage has -4 AC, I need to roll a 13+ to hit. Its not complicated, pretty simple math really.

    Simple math and yet you get it wrong.
    Drueric said:

    Both myself, and Minsc have the same base thaco. The difference is I have a grandmastery and he doesnt. Thats why i have +5 and he has +3 to hit. Which translates to 9 thaco, and minsc with 11 thaco. no matter how you try to spin it, Drueric has a better chance to hit and should have hit before minsc would with the same dice roll.

    I did not try to "spin it" and I wouldn't have had to if you had given those informations in the first place.
    What about strength bonus ? Minsc has a pretty high strength, could make a difference.
    Drueric said:

    Our base Thaco is 14. I dont beleive a summoned ogre mage even has an ac of 0. A 3 or 4 maybe.

    Speculation.
    Drueric said:

    The fact is, with a thaco of 9, I can hit a target with a -8 armor class or weaker with a roll of 17.

    No.
    Drueric said:

    Where Minsc, could not have. For minsc to hit armor class -8, he would have to roll 19.

    No, you would both need to roll a critical hit.
    Drueric said:

    So, yes, there is a bug.

    Maybe, we've not explored every aspects yet.

    See, it's annoying when someone answers you with disrespect and without taking in consideration what you're trying to say, right ?

  • Gate70Gate70 Member, Developer Posts: 3,883
    Halberds do piercing damage while swords do slashing but that won't matter in this case.
    The Record screen shows base and current THAC0, these tie up with the figures you reported.

    I decided to test a non-proficient baseline before trying with specialization & grand mastery.
    - Started a new game with Abdel (2 handed sword) and Minsc (halberd).
    - Both had base & THAC0 of 14.
    - Saved before the encounter.
    - Used Ctrl/Q to get the ogre mage into the party and Ctrl/R to keep him alive.

    Non-proficient
    Both Abdel and Minsc would miss with a 9 and hit with a 10.
    (Ogre mage is AC4. Ghost armour would change that to 2; miss with 11 and hit with 12).
    Working as expected.

    Specialized
    Switching Minsc to the sword saw his THAC0 drop from 14 to 11. He missed with 6 and hit with 7.
    Working as expected.

    Grand Mastery
    If I generate a fighter with grand mastery in halberds and strength in the 18/91-18/99 range his THAC0 shows as 14/9. He misses with 4 and hits with 5.
    Working as expected.

    This was with an unmodded 1.3 game on PC. To investigate your report I'd need a save from before encountering the ogre mage (e.g. the initial autosave if you still have it).
    Thanks
  • DruericDrueric Member Posts: 42
    edited April 2015
    I dont have it, ive since started a new game and deleted old saves. If I see this happen again ill keep it. Ill try yo get it screenshotted also.
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