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If you only want to use CC spells then it's better to just use a Mage and dual or multi them.
Sorcs are stuck as mages. And you can only throw so many Webs before the 5th layer is just unnecessary.
Where did I say a player should take Sleep?
I said a player should take sleep if they really want to metagame. So if they want to powergame then Sleep is the best option.
Ranged characters? Powergaming.
Bards and Skalds being highly recommended? Powergaming.
So comparing those spells to Sleep is pointless.
Give everyone a ranged weapon, ranged beats everything at low levels
Consider this: even the first level song gives a 5% increased chance to hit and make saving throws, and if all other characters are using weapons in a round, you might get an additional 8 or more damage, accounting for multi-attack rounds (bows, specializations) and a few misses. The Skald kit doubles that effect, and quadruples it at high level. A high level unkitted bard gets the War Chant, increasing damage resistance (critical if you've got characters or summons with high resistances), AC, and regenerating health. Health regeneration keeps summons and characters alive longer, and means that your divine casters don't have to waste any lower level spell slots on healing, but can pick more offensive spells. I only take a bard maybe 50% of the time, but when I do, it makes the game substantially easier, but subtly so.
bob_veng said:beginners usually like powergaming.
beginners usually like powergaming.
approaching the game with an intentionally anti-powergaming mindset
it can be made more fun if you avoid obvious yet superior solutions (which is the game's fault) and go for some other criteria instead of raw killing power. so telling a beginner not to powergame probably isn't very useful
FinneousPJ said:What are you trying to prove, @Merina?
What are you trying to prove, @Merina?
Zyzzogeton said:Bards are recommended by power gamimg standards.
Bards are recommended by power gamimg standards.
Why include a Bard? Because their bonuses provide the most use out of the 6th slot.
Skalds are recommended into a party not because of the setting
Change their songs to have horrible bonuses and I'd be surprised if they get mentioned in a tenth of the post your party posts.
You are free to point out Sleep is unnecessary.
But don't offer an alternative by completely ignoring the reason why it was suggested in the first place.
You're saying ...