[SCS] Ihtafeer and Spirit trolls

NoQuitt

I'm doing a first play through of BG2 SCS and absolutely loving it so far. There have been a few moments of frustration though. There are some things that don't work as I understand they are supposed to work. For example: Restoration not restoring the energy drain from a Spirit Troll attack. Also, feedback from the combat log is limited so I am often left wondering why an attack is not working. I just have a few questions on some of these things and I hope you guys can help me clear up some of this confusion.

Ihtafeer: So after doing a google search I learned that Ihtafeer and her allies are immune to level 5 magic, but before that I had no clue why nothing was working. My party was in the level 9-10 range so the only one who had level 6 magic was Jaheira. The only thing that worked was Remove Magic and anything that dispels an illusion. The only feedback I got from the combat log was "spell ineffective" without even a hint as to why it was ineffective. Only after a google search did I find out why the spell was ineffective.

So I'm not sure what to make of this. Does "spell ineffective" always mean the enemy is immune to that level of magic you are using, or could it also mean other things like the enemy is immune to a certain magic damage type?

I think I figured out why my physical attacks weren't working but I just want to make sure and I also want to clear up some more of the combat log feedback. On the combat log, if any physical attack rolls a hit and does no damage (does not state "weapon ineffective") does that mean they are just protected by stone skin or does it include other types like protection from normal/magical weapons. Does "weapon ineffective" mean they are naturally immune to that weapon type (normal, +1, +2, etc) or will it also state weapon ineffective when they are being protected by spells like Mantle. Only my summoned fire elemental was consistently doing damage and I think this is because fire damage goes through stone skin. Once their stone skins were brought down then the rest of the party started doing damage. The thing that confused me is that typically a character protected by stone skin turns grey but in this fight that visual indicator wasn't there. I was left wondering if I still needed to bring the stone skins down or if there was some sort of other protection in play that I wasn't aware of.

Spirit trolls: Yesterday I fought a spirit troll that would stay invisible every single time I knocked it unconscious. I had run out of any means of detecting invisibility and my thief's Detect Invisibility would work despite being at 100 and standing right next to the troll. I'm not sure any of these things work anyway because a spirit troll's invisibility is natural and not due to a spell. My only means of finishing the troll off were fire/acid arrows because I had run out of anything else. So I kept knocking the troll out and wasn't ever able to finish him off because he was invisible. Is this a bug?

Also, why doesn't Restoration cure the strength drain from a spirit troll's attack? This is inconsistent and confusing. Are there any other types of energy drain that Restoration will not cure?

lunar

Spirit trolls do not drain energy (levels) they drain strength. Restoration does not cure strength drain.

Wights, wraiths, specters, vampires, shadow dragon breath and some other critters drain levels. These can be restored by restoration spell.

Shadows and spirit trolls drain strength, which come back after some time. This can not be cured by any means but time.

Rakshasa are immune to spell lvls 1-7. If you cast any spell from those levels you will get 'spell ineffective' message. Spell just won't touch them. 8th and higher level spells fix them up nicely. Also, if you can find a blessed bolt (very random treasure) it will insta slay a rakshasa, as it is like in the legends, provided that the weapon connects and you do not get weapon ineffective message.

Spell ineffective message will pop up if the target has spell deflection or spell immunity spells active. Say, the enemy has spell deflection up, which absorbs coming spells, and you target him with magic missiles. Spell will be harmlessly absorbed and you will see 'spell ineffective' message. You need to either remove the spell deflection with a spell defense removal like secret word, ruby ray of reversal, etc. Or load enough spells to it so it collapses, as spell deflections/turnings can counter a limited number of spell levels.

If an enemy is running illusions and spell immunity:divination, and you cast a True Sight, you will see spell ineffective message and the enemy's illusions won't be touched. Because True sight is diviniation school and the enemy is immune to all diviniation spells as long as spell immunity lasts. You can use spell immunity yourself. Spell immunity:abjuration is popular as it makes you immune to the dreaded imprisonment, dispel/remove magic and in some installations, even breach. Necromancy offers protection from devastating attacks such as skull trap, finger of death, horrid wilting, and in scs, shadow lord's darkling aura. Conjuration is feasable for protection against powerwords stun and kill, as well as maze spell and flame arrows. Invocation makes you immune to most area effect spells like fireballs, ice storms and incendiary clouds. Etc.

Weapon ineffective message pops up when you score a hit, but your weapon just can not touch the creature at all. You either need a higher enchantment weapon:most magical monsters are immune to normal weapons, thus you require at least +1 weapon to hit them. Some tougher demons, elementals and stone golems require +2. Even tougher monsters like greater mummies, greater werewolves, iron and adamantine golems etc. require +3. There are only a few special monsters that require +4 weapons, and their names are not spoken outloud out of fear.

Or, weapon ineffective message will pop up if the monster or mage you attacked casts protection from magic weapons or mantle class spells, which are common in scs. Protection from magic weapons make the caster immune to all magical weapons for 4 rounds. You may switch to unenchanted weapons and arrows, however if the creature is already immune to normal weapons, such as the case of a lich, a fearsome undead spell caster, then no weapon can touch it as long as pro from mweapons lasts. You need to remove magic or breach them.

Stoneskins absorb the weapons damage, but you still connect, and you won't see weapon ineffective message if your hit connected. Additional elemental damages (such as the case of fire elemental's fiery touch, or flame/acid arrows) go through stoneskin, as well as poison, disease, stun, hold, level drain and other nasty effects. Note that weapon ineffective situation protects against all those, as weapon can not contact the target at all in that case!

If a creature is immune to damage, you will see x was my immune to my damage message. Say, you cast a fireball to a fire elemental and you will see 'fire elemental was immune to my damage' message. Or you attack a clay golem with a sword. If your sword is not magical, you will see 'weapon ineffective' message. This means you need a higher enchanted weapon. Then you switch to your sword+2, hit the monster, and this time you see 'clay golem was immune to my damage' message. This time, your weapon's enchantment level was right, but damage type was wrong. Clay golems are immune to slashing and piercing damage. You need an enchanted crushing weapon like a staff+2 or mace+2 to kill those things.

NoQuitt

This is exactly the clarification I was looking for. Your post has been very helpful, thank you.

So Restoration only cures level drain and a strength drain will only be cured over time. I assume this is true for a vampire's constitution drain as well as any other individual stat drain. Is this correct?

Do you have any insight on the invisible spirit troll that refused to die? Do spirit trolls always go invisible upon being knocked unconscious or was this a bug that I ran into? I didn't notice this happening to any other spirit troll I killed so I'm just assuming it was bugged. Also, do methods of detecting illusion/invisibility have any effect on the natural invisibility of a spirit troll?

semiticgoddess

@NoQuitt: If SCS2 Spirit Trolls are invisible when they get knocked out, then something is wrong. That's not how SCS2 Spirit Trolls are supposed to behave. I've always had them turn visible--not just targetable with weapons, but targetable with spells, so the player could use Melf's Acid Arrow or whatever--right after Spirit Trolls fell down. You may have a bug... perhaps it's an EE problem; my game is vanilla.

If the Spirit Trolls won't stay visible after they get knocked down, you may just have to use a Fireball.

NoQuitt

Yeah I've had it happen twice now. Playing on EE. The first time it happened I had run out of everything so I had no aoe magic. The whole thing was infuriating! hahaha

Lord_Tansheron

This sounds like a mod conflict. Are you using any other mods that influence mob behavior? BigPicture? Tactics?

NoQuitt

The only other mod I use is BG2 Tweaks. I only installed a few components from that mod for stuff like potion bags and item stacking. Definitely nothing that would influence mob behavior as far as I know

the_sextein

I had this same problem the last time I played the game with SCS2 and no other mods installed. It only happens on some spirit trolls but not all of them. I always saved my fireball spells just in case that happened at Nalia's keep and the druid grove. Also the re-spawns in Nalia's keep were really bad and they never stopped even after I finished the mission to free the keep.

lunar

If you have a lvl 12 mage and death spell, let all the trolls crowd in one place. One death spell should clear them all, no saving throw, no headache. Just tons of xp.