SCS and Spell Revisions Help

Wisher

Hello forums! I've been a fan of BG since it came out, though I mostly lurked on the forums until now. I plan to try amping up the difficulty of my next trilogy run by installing SCS and SR--problem is, I'm a little worried about the combination of intelligent spell caster AI and revamped spells. I just wanted to ask a few questions.

What components do you recommend installing from SCS? I'm just looking for a moderate challenge, not for uber-hard enemies spamming invisibility that require the cheesiest of cheese to beat.

What are the differences between the protection removal spells? I never really got the hang of this, despite my love for spell casters, and between the changes from SR and the increased difficulty from SCS it's probably vital to know what dispels what.

Which of the spells changed by SR do you find constantly useful/useless? Must-haves in vanilla are easy--Timestop, Stoneskin, Breach, Contingencies, and you're good to go. I love that SR is letting some of the less-used spells shine, but as a trade-off it's harder to find "great" spells, and the former "great" spells may not be as good now.

Jaheiras_Witness

I can't comment on SR, I'll leave that to others.

SCS is not a cheesy mod. It requires intelligence and an understanding of the game mechanics to defeat SCS opponents, not cheese.

If you want a gentler introduction then I recommend you install the item / spell / AI components except for mages and priests insta-buffs (choose the option that gives them no insta-buffs) and possibly skip Smarter Vampires. However do not install any "Tactical Challenge" components.

If you want to understand the magic system better, especially how spell debuffs work, there is an SCS spell guide knocking about on these forums which should help . Search for "BG2 SCS spell guide" should find it for you. (I would give you the link for it if I weren't on my phone).

Demivrgvs

@Wisher I hope other players can give you their opinions about SR - I'm biased - but I can tell you a few things:
- spells that were "top-tier" in vanilla are still great within SR
- do not worry about "finding the great spells". You can pick the old ones you were used to memorize and slowly try the other ones from time to time.
- protection vs removal mechanics are largely the same with only two exceptions (*) and a few cool and/or cosmetic changes that shouldn't be a problem to get accustomed to (e.g. Secret Word belongs to the Power Word serie of spells within SR - and all PWs belong to Enchantment school - but the spell work as before, only with casting time 1 and a PW-like animation).

(*) The two exceptions are:
- Spell Immunity and its sub-spells are not available anymore. You need to use other spells which fulfill those roles (Non-detection, Dispelling Screen, ProElements, Mind Blank, etc.).
- True Seeing isn't the end of all illusions anymore, and it "only" helps the caster rather than his whole party

Anyway, the first time you play with SR it's just a matter of reading the spell descriptions at least once whenever you get a new spell. I spent some time on them and they should be easy to read, and more accurate than vanilla's ones.

Lord_Tansheron

SR and SCS work together very well. They are quite fair in the sense that there isn't a whole lot of "super cheese" going on, but there are combinations that can be quite challenging to deal with if you're not well-versed in the game's mechanics.

Personally I crank everything up to 11, but that is backed by a decade of experience. If you're just getting into high-difficulty play, you could probably keep some of the options at a more reasonable level; usually it's fairly easy to recognize that setting when installing SCS. Of course, practice makes perfect - both in terms of beating the mods, as well as knowing what to install for your maximum personal enjoyment.

SR is a very thorough and balanced mod, though, you basically have very little to worry about there. I would suggest reading all spells carefully as there are many changes, but overall it really is quite fair and easy to get into. A lot of the changes are tweaks rather than fundamental breaks, and a lot of the cheese has been addressed, too - on both sides.

semiticgoddess

The big thing about Spell Revisions is spell choice. In the vanilla game, there were a lot of spells that most people never actually use--sometimes with reason, sometimes without. In SR, almost every spell in the game has a use, and it's not a niche use, either. If you're a power gamer or have a habit of maximizing your spell picks, you may find it difficult to choose between spells. That's the main disadvantage of SR: you have to think more to figure out which spells are the best ones, because there are so many useful spells. A secondary disadvantage is that it requires you to adjust to a somewhat new play style, but that won't be a problem if you're relatively new to the game.

Unless you have a habit of spending lots of time managing your spellbook--a process that SR would magnify--I would strongly recommend installing SR with SCS2. And even if you do have such a habit, I'd still recommend the SR mod. There is a lot more flavor and a lot more variety in the game with SR installed, and you have more options irrespective of the challenge you're taking on--there is no longer a single useful strategy for any encounter. Diversity of tactics has always been one of my favorite things about BG2, and SR makes it even richer. I've heard much talk about SCS2, but SR hasn't enjoyed as much attention as it deserves. SR may remove some tactics you may like, but it will introduce far more.

In my experience, SCS2 and SR are the best mods available for BG2, and are by far the best tactical mods. That they work together is even more precious.

Wisher

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I've spent the last few days trying these two out--with the installations Jaheiras_Witness suggested--and while spell casting is a lot more challenging, it's a good kind of challenge. And its kind of fun rediscovering all the revised spells.