Original Question or Renee Montoya Question? Because I'd love to see her go that route in the Gotham show, though her character has completely disappeared off the face of the Earth.
@AndrewFoley You're right. Fury (At least the caucasian version) was also apparently given a version of Cap's Serum and uses Life Model Decoys to seemingly be everywhere. Tony claiming to be his own LMD in one of the Iron Man movies was a direct shout-out to this. Also, Dugan, from the Captain America: The First Avenger movie (aka Dum-Dum Dugan) is Fury's Second-in-command at S.H.I.E.L.D. in the 616 Universe.
As well @the_Spyder, "Crisis on Infinite Earths" was supposed to collapse the many DC Universes down to one single universe. This didn't last very long at all (Only a few years, I think), same as the whole Hoo Hah over the "Death of Superman". There's another movie nobody wants to remember: Steel. Steel was one of the inheritors of the Superman "legacy" following the "Death" of Superman. (I say "Death" because it only lasted about a year… IRL)
I didn't think the first Ghost Rider movie was that bad. It's by no means good, but it's not completely terrible. Some of the action sequences were done well, and I loved the whole "Bike transformation" they did. Also, when he pops up from the river and gives the cops the finger before driving off on the surface of the water. I thought that image/sequence was pretty sick awesome. And riding *down* the building. In short, I loved a lot of the CGI sequences. The live action stuff was… meh.
And let's not forget the horrible movies, too. Swamp Thing The Return of Swamp Thing (had some funny one-liners, and that was really it.) The Swamp Thing TV series (a guilty pleasure of my younger days.) Wonder Woman (the one with Cathy Lee Gifford. I remember watching it as a child. It's probably as awful as I remember it being.) The Wonder Woman TV series wasn't bad, either. I think Lynda Carter did an excellent job, given the material. She certainly sold the character as far as I was concerned. Then again, this was during the era of the Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman. Captain America movie (Can barely remember this one. Forgettable. Literally. This was the one in the 80's.) Captain America 2: Death Too Soon (another direct to TV masterpiece! Did you know Jonathan Frakes got his start playing Cap at Mall openings? Truth.) Catwoman (Ugh. Just Ugh.) Legends of the Superheroes (used the DC heroes along with some really bad racial stereotypes like, and I cringe to write this, "Ghettoman".) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0131675/ (for those who think I am hallucinating this). The Flash TV series with John Wesley Shipp wasn't bad, but the actor didn't fit my mental image of the Flash, who should be built like a runner, not a weightlifter. I mean, he was another science geek, not a jock. John Wesley Shipp was built like a jock.
That's enough for now, I think. But another hero/heroine pair who deserve a movie? Hawkman/Hawkgirl.
@AndrewFoley Interesting! Carter and Shiera Hall or Carter and Shiera Hol? (i.e. the human versions or the alien ones?)
I really hope its the Halls, as the rebirth story is far more interesting to me! But the two versions were actually made to be the same character in the last ongoing series they had in the mid-2000s, which I loved. The show would be better served choosing one or the other, however.
Considering it is a time-travel story, I think having them be the Halls would be better as she could witness her own past lives!
Original Question or Renee Montoya Question? Because I'd love to see her go that route in the Gotham show, though her character has completely disappeared off the face of the Earth.
Gotham kind of feels like Heroes series 2: "We have all these characters and no idea what to do with them."
@booinyoureyes Interesting, indeed. I like Hawkman as an archaeologist who discovers his own past lives. One of my friends was over the moon about Michael Shanks being tapped to play Hawkman in one of the many WB DC universe spinoffs. (I can't remember which one, sadly enough.) But it was ironic for me to go from playing one Archaeologist (Daniel Jackson) to another (Carter Hall). Don't get me wrong, Michael Shanks does geeky *really* well. I just thought it was ironic that he might be typecast as an archaeologist!
@LadyRhian - Hey, don't Diss on Swamp Thing. That was one of the best Camp movies of it's time. Gotta love it. Particularly with Adrianne Barbeau. Swamp Thing 2 was less, but still watchable.
I really liked the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman series and actually own the DVDs. Looking back on it in comparison to some stuff today, it isn't so great, but then against SOME stuff it is actually better.
But another hero/heroine pair who deserve a movie? Hawkman/Hawkgirl.
There's actually going to be a Hawkgirl in the new Arrow/Flash spinoff show Legends of Tomorrow.
Yeah, I hope they do a good job with that spin-off. I really like The Flash, and Arrow has gotten good at times. I still don't like the new version of Black Canary, but I can see why they went that way. Rumor has it that Sarah (the original Black Canary) will be joining that cast. I'd be interested to see how they pull THAT off.
The Hawkman that they did for Smallville didn't suck. But they did this thing where he actually wore a suit that gave him wings, which wasn't ideal. I hope they come up with a better solution than that.
What I really hope is that they somehow bring Brainiac 5 into it. That would be very cool. He was always my favorite Legionnaire.
I kind of don't want to see another Swamp thing movie. The real Campiness of the original was so great, I am afraid that if they did a 'Serious' outing, it would really ruin the experience for people like me. But who knows.
I was very surprised to read how poorly the two Hulk outings were. I mean I admit that the Eric Bana one wasn't GREAT (not his fault) but I really enjoyed both of them. I suppose that people didn't want to see a whole movie based on "Hulk Smash". The way it was done in Avengers made it good and fun without it being center stage. And then Cap's tip of the hat to same was absolutely perfect.
I would wonder if a more serious Swamp Thing wouldn't end up with the same reception.
Has anyone been paying attention to the whole hoopla with Joss and Age of Ultron? Thoughts on it?
The problem with Hulk is that only a couple enemies can actually be a real threat. He's a bit like Marvel's version of Superman that way. Nothing really can kill him, and Savage Hulk is kinda impossible to over power, and can outheal Wolverine. That removes any real tension, other than always doing 'someone else is in danger!!', which is not the best trope out there, being done to death. The saving grace of both can only be emotional developement/interesting character changes, and Superman's the most angsty hero, well, ever, while Savage Hulk is pretty near brainless. Mr. Fixit is a much more workable character, yet they try to make 'stand alone' Hulk movies with Green Hulk? Yeesh. He's a hint how it ends: Hulk will smash. Yeah, not much potential for a top tier hero movie. Lots of opponents would be strong enough to be a challenge for Gray Hulk, forcing him to use his brains and fighting ability vs just smashing everything.
Regarding overpowered hero movies, Hancock was at least a new take on it. Not well recieved apparently, but it was a neat premise at least.
For all of that (and I agree 100%), I think they did a phenomenal job in the most recent Avengers movie in doing a Hulk Rampage. I won't spoiler it for the 1% of the population that hasn't seen it yet, but it was pretty friggin AWESOME.
And yes, Green hulk is literally supposed to be unstoppable. The more you hurt him the stronger he gets. But then again it is the only Hulk that non-comic book readers have ever seen (and quite probably will ever see). Mr Fixit would be a cool movie for us comic nerds, but I suspect that it would get critically panned because it wasn't "The Lou Ferrigno" Hulk. In fact, that was one of the main complaints that I saw with the Eric Bana outing and pretty much set the tone for the Ed Norton version.
I did not like Hancock. It just wasn't "Hero" for me. I've got nothing against an anti-hero, nor against a story where a hero needs to redeem himself. It just felt wrong somehow (entirely subjective on my part).
PS, I think that Spidey is just about as angsty as old Sups. Just sayin...
I agree it would be hardermto market Mr. Fixit, but some good, high profile tie in heros and villains would make for some built in interest... top things up by openly marketing at as 'The Hulk... LIKE YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE!' and you have a start. He could also work as an anti-hero, or even villainous antagonist.
Well, the reason I liked Hancock was that his nature/background more or less made sense. If he's a D-bag, it kinda made sense.
Spiderman is angsty, but he's got interesting character developement. Also, he didn't build a 'Fortress of Lonely Wankery' in the middle of nowhere, right? Thats pretty epic goth. Not Ostrogoth or Visagoth, its pure Mall Goth.
Again, I am not saying that the Mr Fixit idea wouldn't be cool. Just saying that it might not get the audience that ol' Greenie gets. But I do like the idea of him being a villain in another franchise. That might just fly.
And you are right, old Web Head didn't create a fortress in the wilderness. He kind of self flagellates in his own solitude in and among the rest of the New Yorkers. Or at least he did. I haven't honestly read any comics pretty much since his wedding to Mary Jane.
I remember when The Beyonder turned an entire skyscraper into gold. Peter took a goldified notepad from a trash can and agonized over it for 3-4 issues as to if it was OK to sell it. I think ultimately he dumped it in the river if I remember correctly. THAT'S pretty angsty.
If a Hulk show were to work, the Hulk would have to BE the villain, and Banner's attempts to control him and his various forms would be the main struggle. That is enough conflict to carry most of a short season.
If I were to make it, I'd have Puny Banner be the main star and focus on his run from the authorities. Banner is a super-scientist who can do so much on his own without resorting to using the Hulk, so he could drive the storyline without transforming every five minutes. Hulk would not show up so often, only when things get really bad, and even then it would be a terrifying experience where Banner loses control of his actions and reeks havoc. I know a lot of fans would be upset and say "not enough smashing" but I'd enjoy it.
This would have to be prior to the first Avengers movie though, since a more "in control" Banner would show up in later seasons.
For storylines they can do a different Hulk to give him a rival worth letting go on (be it Abomination or Red Hulk). They can also do the Mr. Fixit Hulk and other forms later on. Finally, they could do the Banner and Hulk are split story and have it as Banner VS Hulk while he hunts him down all Captain Nemo-like.
Of course... then there could be PLANET HULK which would be totally awesome. Gladiator Hulk is totally badass.
...you could have Maestro, and have his army of Hulks attack!
Totally NOT ridiculous as it sounds. Mind you, thats not saying much.
Fixit might benefit from the expectations people have developed of what The Hulk is supposed to be; heck, that was why he worked well in the comics. You know, Gray could have a cool side-story with Betty, or an original normal woman character. The morally dubious ogre, will she turn him decent? Hopefully this would not be a 'damsel' thing later, unless it gets hella subverted.
"Hulk smashes things whilst pursued by the military. In the end he smashes a supa-hulk" is not enough plot to make a good movie.
A decent Hulk movie would need to delve into the character of the Hulk, and how he relates to Banner. In order to do that, Hulk would have to speak, and I think that is what film makers are scared of.
Here is the Hulk movie I would make, based loosely on "Planet Hulk". Banner crashes onto a desert planet. Gamma radiation from the powerful blue sun forces him to transform into hulk if he is on the surface during the day. Banner can only exist at night or underground. Hulk is captured by the pseudo-medieval (but powerful) natives of the planet and made a slave gladiator. Hulk comes to realise that in order to escape and save the world, he is going to need Banner's smarts. Banner makes recordings for Hulk, so there can be scenes in the movie where Hulk and Banner have a conversation.
Rumors abound that we might be seeing a Green Lantern TV presence, either as a stand alone or (more likely) as part of the Flash/Arrow/Legends of Tomorrow family of shows. People are speculating that since the Green Lantern in the Justice League movies will be the John Stewart incarnation, and since Hal Jordan's disappearance was mentioned so prominently in The Flash we might be seeing a re-imagining of His character. If done correctly this might hopefully mitigate that horrible movie from a few years back. This would keep the TV and Movie universes separate.
@mlnevese - I am not sure that is a fair assessment. Two of the three Batman movies were extremely good, but the third was a bit of a let down. And the most recent two Superman outings have been somewhat less than spectacular. I guess we will see what they do with 'Dawn of Justice', but I am skeptical in the face of Afleck.
I'm actually a fan of the Batfleck casting *runs and hides*
I think Affleck has grown a ton as an actor since his early days of being Matt Damon's tagalong. I'd say he's now built a better career than Damon (who really hasn't made a decent movie since 2007...) and would be a decent Batman. As pretty much the biggest Daredevil fan EVER I actually didn't think Ben Affleck was that bad in it honestly. And that was when he didn't have the experience he has today.
I think they might actually make John Diggle (from Arrow) the new Green Lantern as a stand-in for John Stewart. If anyone saw the finale of Arrow (this was a horrendous season) they'll see that there is a decent opening. His military background mirrors John Stewart's as well.
I'm actually a fan of the Batfleck casting *runs and hides*
The Horror... The Shame...
I don't disagree that Afleck has grown as an actor. That is not a question in my mind. The question is more a matter of The Batman. However, in my view Christian Bale (who did an AWESOME job) was not appropriate for the role.... *runs and hides*.
In fact, I don't think we have had a good fit for my view of The Batman. The closest we have come (personal and subjective) is Kevin Conroy and that was a cartoon.
As for John Diggle, I see where that might be a working theory. I personally don't see it going that way for the following reasons.
1. They actually make reference to Hal Jordan in the most recent Flash episode. Though not by name, the reference was dead clear.
2. The Green Lantern in the Up coming Justice League movies will be the John Stewart version. I really doubt that they will cross media between TV and Movies and I suspect that they will get a bigger name actor for the Movie version.
3. Given John Diggle's performance/popularity on Arrow, I can't see him stepping back to a 'Frequent guest star'. To include a Green Lantern character is to invite a fair amount of outer space episodes. So they would have to either vastly increase the special effects budget and change the direction of Arrow completely, or demote the actor to an occasional appearance.
However, I could be wrong on all accounts. In any event, I guess we will see in the months to come.
And have you watched the Netflix Daredevil? I think you might see how bad the Afleck Daredevil was after watching the new stuff. Or I could be wrong.
Comments
As well @the_Spyder, "Crisis on Infinite Earths" was supposed to collapse the many DC Universes down to one single universe. This didn't last very long at all (Only a few years, I think), same as the whole Hoo Hah over the "Death of Superman". There's another movie nobody wants to remember: Steel. Steel was one of the inheritors of the Superman "legacy" following the "Death" of Superman. (I say "Death" because it only lasted about a year… IRL)
I didn't think the first Ghost Rider movie was that bad. It's by no means good, but it's not completely terrible. Some of the action sequences were done well, and I loved the whole "Bike transformation" they did. Also, when he pops up from the river and gives the cops the finger before driving off on the surface of the water. I thought that image/sequence was pretty sick awesome. And riding *down* the building. In short, I loved a lot of the CGI sequences. The live action stuff was… meh.
And let's not forget the horrible movies, too.
Swamp Thing
The Return of Swamp Thing (had some funny one-liners, and that was really it.)
The Swamp Thing TV series (a guilty pleasure of my younger days.)
Wonder Woman (the one with Cathy Lee Gifford. I remember watching it as a child. It's probably as awful as I remember it being.)
The Wonder Woman TV series wasn't bad, either. I think Lynda Carter did an excellent job, given the material. She certainly sold the character as far as I was concerned. Then again, this was during the era of the Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman.
Captain America movie (Can barely remember this one. Forgettable. Literally. This was the one in the 80's.)
Captain America 2: Death Too Soon (another direct to TV masterpiece! Did you know Jonathan Frakes got his start playing Cap at Mall openings? Truth.)
Catwoman (Ugh. Just Ugh.)
Legends of the Superheroes (used the DC heroes along with some really bad racial stereotypes like, and I cringe to write this, "Ghettoman".) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0131675/ (for those who think I am hallucinating this).
The Flash TV series with John Wesley Shipp wasn't bad, but the actor didn't fit my mental image of the Flash, who should be built like a runner, not a weightlifter. I mean, he was another science geek, not a jock. John Wesley Shipp was built like a jock.
That's enough for now, I think. But another hero/heroine pair who deserve a movie? Hawkman/Hawkgirl.
My favorite Ghost Rider video, to the tune of "Ghost Riders in the Sky" by Spiderbait:
Considering it is a time-travel story, I think having them be the Halls would be better as she could witness her own past lives!
I really liked the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman series and actually own the DVDs. Looking back on it in comparison to some stuff today, it isn't so great, but then against SOME stuff it is actually better. Yeah, I hope they do a good job with that spin-off. I really like The Flash, and Arrow has gotten good at times. I still don't like the new version of Black Canary, but I can see why they went that way. Rumor has it that Sarah (the original Black Canary) will be joining that cast. I'd be interested to see how they pull THAT off.
The Hawkman that they did for Smallville didn't suck. But they did this thing where he actually wore a suit that gave him wings, which wasn't ideal. I hope they come up with a better solution than that.
What I really hope is that they somehow bring Brainiac 5 into it. That would be very cool. He was always my favorite Legionnaire.
@the_spyder I like the costume used in the second Swamp Thing better. The first costume was *really* sub-par.
I was very surprised to read how poorly the two Hulk outings were. I mean I admit that the Eric Bana one wasn't GREAT (not his fault) but I really enjoyed both of them. I suppose that people didn't want to see a whole movie based on "Hulk Smash". The way it was done in Avengers made it good and fun without it being center stage. And then Cap's tip of the hat to same was absolutely perfect.
I would wonder if a more serious Swamp Thing wouldn't end up with the same reception.
Has anyone been paying attention to the whole hoopla with Joss and Age of Ultron? Thoughts on it?
Regarding overpowered hero movies, Hancock was at least a new take on it. Not well recieved apparently, but it was a neat premise at least.
And yes, Green hulk is literally supposed to be unstoppable. The more you hurt him the stronger he gets. But then again it is the only Hulk that non-comic book readers have ever seen (and quite probably will ever see). Mr Fixit would be a cool movie for us comic nerds, but I suspect that it would get critically panned because it wasn't "The Lou Ferrigno" Hulk. In fact, that was one of the main complaints that I saw with the Eric Bana outing and pretty much set the tone for the Ed Norton version.
I did not like Hancock. It just wasn't "Hero" for me. I've got nothing against an anti-hero, nor against a story where a hero needs to redeem himself. It just felt wrong somehow (entirely subjective on my part).
PS, I think that Spidey is just about as angsty as old Sups. Just sayin...
Well, the reason I liked Hancock was that his nature/background more or less made sense. If he's a D-bag, it kinda made sense.
Spiderman is angsty, but he's got interesting character developement. Also, he didn't build a 'Fortress of Lonely Wankery' in the middle of nowhere, right? Thats pretty epic goth. Not Ostrogoth or Visagoth, its pure Mall Goth.
And you are right, old Web Head didn't create a fortress in the wilderness. He kind of self flagellates in his own solitude in and among the rest of the New Yorkers. Or at least he did. I haven't honestly read any comics pretty much since his wedding to Mary Jane.
I remember when The Beyonder turned an entire skyscraper into gold. Peter took a goldified notepad from a trash can and agonized over it for 3-4 issues as to if it was OK to sell it. I think ultimately he dumped it in the river if I remember correctly. THAT'S pretty angsty.
If I were to make it, I'd have Puny Banner be the main star and focus on his run from the authorities. Banner is a super-scientist who can do so much on his own without resorting to using the Hulk, so he could drive the storyline without transforming every five minutes. Hulk would not show up so often, only when things get really bad, and even then it would be a terrifying experience where Banner loses control of his actions and reeks havoc. I know a lot of fans would be upset and say "not enough smashing" but I'd enjoy it.
This would have to be prior to the first Avengers movie though, since a more "in control" Banner would show up in later seasons.
For storylines they can do a different Hulk to give him a rival worth letting go on (be it Abomination or Red Hulk). They can also do the Mr. Fixit Hulk and other forms later on. Finally, they could do the Banner and Hulk are split story and have it as Banner VS Hulk while he hunts him down all Captain Nemo-like.
Of course... then there could be PLANET HULK which would be totally awesome. Gladiator Hulk is totally badass.
Totally NOT ridiculous as it sounds. Mind you, thats not saying much.
Fixit might benefit from the expectations people have developed of what The Hulk is supposed to be; heck, that was why he worked well in the comics. You know, Gray could have a cool side-story with Betty, or an original normal woman character. The morally dubious ogre, will she turn him decent? Hopefully this would not be a 'damsel' thing later, unless it gets hella subverted.
A decent Hulk movie would need to delve into the character of the Hulk, and how he relates to Banner. In order to do that, Hulk would have to speak, and I think that is what film makers are scared of.
Here is the Hulk movie I would make, based loosely on "Planet Hulk". Banner crashes onto a desert planet. Gamma radiation from the powerful blue sun forces him to transform into hulk if he is on the surface during the day. Banner can only exist at night or underground. Hulk is captured by the pseudo-medieval (but powerful) natives of the planet and made a slave gladiator. Hulk comes to realise that in order to escape and save the world, he is going to need Banner's smarts. Banner makes recordings for Hulk, so there can be scenes in the movie where Hulk and Banner have a conversation.
YEAAAHHH DOCTOR WHO!
(Oh, and Hawkgirl. I like me some Hawkgirl.)
@mlnevese - I am not sure that is a fair assessment. Two of the three Batman movies were extremely good, but the third was a bit of a let down. And the most recent two Superman outings have been somewhat less than spectacular. I guess we will see what they do with 'Dawn of Justice', but I am skeptical in the face of Afleck.
I think Affleck has grown a ton as an actor since his early days of being Matt Damon's tagalong. I'd say he's now built a better career than Damon (who really hasn't made a decent movie since 2007...) and would be a decent Batman. As pretty much the biggest Daredevil fan EVER I actually didn't think Ben Affleck was that bad in it honestly. And that was when he didn't have the experience he has today.
I think they might actually make John Diggle (from Arrow) the new Green Lantern as a stand-in for John Stewart. If anyone saw the finale of Arrow (this was a horrendous season) they'll see that there is a decent opening. His military background mirrors John Stewart's as well.
I don't disagree that Afleck has grown as an actor. That is not a question in my mind. The question is more a matter of The Batman. However, in my view Christian Bale (who did an AWESOME job) was not appropriate for the role.... *runs and hides*.
In fact, I don't think we have had a good fit for my view of The Batman. The closest we have come (personal and subjective) is Kevin Conroy and that was a cartoon.
As for John Diggle, I see where that might be a working theory. I personally don't see it going that way for the following reasons.
1. They actually make reference to Hal Jordan in the most recent Flash episode. Though not by name, the reference was dead clear.
2. The Green Lantern in the Up coming Justice League movies will be the John Stewart version. I really doubt that they will cross media between TV and Movies and I suspect that they will get a bigger name actor for the Movie version.
3. Given John Diggle's performance/popularity on Arrow, I can't see him stepping back to a 'Frequent guest star'. To include a Green Lantern character is to invite a fair amount of outer space episodes. So they would have to either vastly increase the special effects budget and change the direction of Arrow completely, or demote the actor to an occasional appearance.
However, I could be wrong on all accounts. In any event, I guess we will see in the months to come.
And have you watched the Netflix Daredevil? I think you might see how bad the Afleck Daredevil was after watching the new stuff. Or I could be wrong.