@the_spyder Save me from people who think there are exactly 3 British accents: BBC, Scottish and Irish. :P
I think its even more funny how there are only two American accents: Generic and Super-thick Southern!
I blame the New York-LA dominance of the entertainment industry.
I think Game of Thrones was invented just to give us in the States exposure to various British accents... which for some reason is the language of fantasy films. I can just see the Geordie Shore starring the Onion Knight.
I've mostly been avoiding this thread because I haven't seen some of the movies being discussed yet, but, I was wondering what you guys think about the latest Fantastic Four movie? Is it as bad as I'm hearing? If so, that's too bad, because FF was always one of my favorite Marvel titles.
I thought the first one wasn't really all that bad. I kind of enjoyed it. The second one was pretty awful, because they messed up Galactus, among other reasons.
So, is this latest attempt as bad as the buzz says it is?
The newest Fantastic Four movie wasn't what I would call 'Bad'. It wasn't Ghost Rider or Daredevil (Afleck movie, not Netflix series) bad by any stretch of the imagination. HOWEVER...
After sitting in the movie for an hour and a half, I found that I didn't care at all for any of the characters or their individual plights. There was nothing engaging about any of them nor was what was going on compelling in any way. There was no chemistry between the actors, particularly the 'Love interest(s)' that should exist (I won't spoiler it here, but if you have read the comics or seen either of the two previous outings, or you merely don't live under a rock, you will know who I mean), and even the 'Family' feel simply does not exist even where they try to force it down your throat as a part of the 'Plot'.
The plot itself was VERY predictable and there was no anticipation nor any real fear that it wouldn't resolve happily. The fight scenes were rote and not very exciting. Even when the good guys are up against the wall, you never have any fear that they won't overcome. And despite it being predictable, it is still so far fetched that you are like 'No, they are not going there, are they?'
What's more, there were HUGE plot holes. I'm not talking about "Why didn't Gandalf use the Eagles to get the ring to mount doom" plot holes, where true geek fans have to work REALLY hard to say it is a flaw, or where it is subject to some simple (but dumb) mechanic of the plot. I'm talking about characters disappearing for really REALLY long periods of time for no readily explainable reasons and completely contrary to their established personalities. One character survives without food or water, well for longer than it is humanly (or even inhumanly) possible to do so. Again, there was no real chemistry or cohesion between the characters, which leads to another plot hole in that one particular relationship that 'SHOULD' exist and is used to resolve another issue, feels empty and totally unexplained.
And then there are significant sections of the cinematic trailer previews that simply do not happen in the movie (Extended edition anyone?). While I like extended editions and usually buy them, I don't expect that they will tease one prior to the release of the first run movie. And the sections that apparently 'Got cut' would have added to the excitement of the movie itself.
I went into the movie expecting that the 'Re-imagining' of several key characters would be the most horrible part of the movie. Turns out, you didn't care enough about the movie as a whole for those changes to matter that much. The reasons for the change were there and if not good, at least explainable. But who cared? I certainly didn't.
And
There is no cameo from the rest of the X-men universe, no tease of movies yet to come and no inclusion into the larger universe. And no 'ending scene' after the credits that has become the hallmark of Marvel to date.
I am so glad that this got put into the X-verse rather than MCU, because now I can say that they still haven't missed a beat (in MCU). But it really speaks to some grave concerns ABOUT the X-verse if the types of decisions made here are indicative of what is to come. Maybe it is just a curse that Fantastic Four movies aren't any good. But it seems to me that if they were to actually give it the kind of ingenuity and attention that even Thor got, they COULD make a good movie. Just look at 'The Incredibles'.
If you haven't seen it? I say wait till it is on HBO. I kind of wish I had.
Personally, I wish they would just start with the Fantastic Four as already adults, and only reference the origin story in passing like they did with the Incredible Hulk movie.
I'd even give them the kids (who are like the best characters anyway). Just establish what they do by having them face off against a giant monster or monsters (moloids anyone?) to showcase their powers and establish that they are beloved superheroes who are popular among the masses, as everyone cheers for them saving NYC yet again, and all the ladies go crazy and ask for Johnny's autograph while Reed and Sue share a moment of being a sweet couple and maybe seeing their kids. The Thing doesn't really enjoy it as much and then Reed feels bad and promises to find a cure. Then just jump into the story.
The simple fact is that the Fantastic Four are AWESOME but their origin story is really very pedestrian. They should concentrate more on the SCIENCE-Y ADVENTURE and FAMILY themes rather than trying to be super serious.
I haven't seen it yet but when I read reviews and hear that
there was no real chemistry or cohesion between the characters, which leads to another plot hole in that one particular relationship that 'SHOULD' exist and is used to resolve another issue, feels empty and totally unexplained.
I just feel like the people who made this fundamentally do NOT understand what makes the Fantastic Four appealing. I could tell straight from the trailers that they were just going to take it too seriously to begin with. They are so afraid of being corny that they made the movie really dark. I think they are afraid because they believe the first films failed for being corny, when really the problem wasn't that they were cheesy but that they were stupid.
These movies need to be less The Dark Knight and more The Incredibles
I'd go further and say that the people who made this movie did not know how to make movies at all. It was like a particularly dull and boring outing for a TV episode of something, only it wasn't sweeps week, so they didn't put much effort into it. The Penultimate battle was not very exciting. The crisis moment wasn't very much of a crisis moment at all and the resolution was previewed in the trailer.
Again, I didn't personally care for any of the characters. There's a point where one particularly hot-headed character actually chooses to play the chicken and opt out of something dangerous where very thing up to that point suggests that he would be jumping out in front. And when a call for personal connection between the characters is necessary to further the plot, you wonder why it worked because the characters didn't seem that cohesive to begin with.
I'd love to see a straight out monster mash movie with adult versions of the FF if that were in the offering but I suspect that this franchise will once again be left (rightfully or not) to rot on the vine.
I've had a day to think on this and I think I figured out what went wrong with the movie. They tried so very hard to move the plot along that they didn't spend any time at all getting to know the characters. Without that simple piece, the relationships that should have existed, and which the plot hinges on, simply were not there (or at least the audience didn't have a chance to get engaged in them).
Maybe it was because the actors couldn't pull them off, but honestly it felt more like they tried to cram in a much larger story line into a short movie and had to cut significant portions. That would explain a rather glaring and significant gap that takes place in the center of the movie as well. An event happens and then you get "(paraphrasing)... some time later". If they had actually shown what happened with the characters during that time frame maybe you would believe other sections better. Certainly it would have made the movie flow better instead of jolting along. But even that wouldn't have been a silver bullet in this case as certain things had to not only happen but be more fully explored before that point anyway.
You can piece together what happened from the various comments on the internet. You can tell from "Chronicle" that Trank thinks comics take an unrealistic view of how people would act if they gains superpowers, so set out to create an Anti-Fantastic Four movie, replacing the bright and cheerful comic interpretation with body-shock horror. However, the studio started to get the jitters that this approach would alienate the hard-core fans. Lacking the skill to persuade the studio bosses that his approach would work, (failed Cha check) Trank became drunk and aggressive. Fox didn't have time to replace Trank before the rights would revert to Marvel/Disney (production had to start in 2014), so responded by slashing the budget, loosing three major FX heavy set pieces. This caused Trank to have a breakdown of sorts, becoming ever more drunk and aggressive. With the film in a mess, it was left to writer Simon Kinburg to try and assemble it into something that at least made sense and could spawn a sequel. He was responsible for the second half of the film.
If Trank had been able to manage himself and the studio better, would this have been a good film? Possibly, but I'm pretty sure it would have still annoyed hardcore fans (the way Man of Steel annoyed me).
So far it looks like Fox could lose upwards of 60 mil on this fantastic failure, so maybe just maybe they will finally give up and let Marvel buy the rights back. I know they are saying, there is no chance of that happening, but we can always hope.
Then Marvel could make the first good FF movie ever and if we lived in a perfect world they would cast Kristen Bell as Sue Richards and it wouldn't be a damned origin story.
Then Marvel could make the first good FF movie ever and if we lived in a perfect world they would cast Kristen Bell as Sue Richards and it wouldn't be a damned origin story.
Kristen Bell?
As Sue...?
...
Do ya wanna turn invisible? C'mon, let's disappear! You'll never see me anymore. Whatcha you looking for? I'm naked over here!
(Not that you could tell!)
It gets a little lonely Being the only girl- Character in this fiiiiiiiilm!
So far it looks like Fox could lose upwards of 60 mil on this fantastic failure, so maybe just maybe they will finally give up and let Marvel buy the rights back. I know they are saying, there is no chance of that happening, but we can always hope.
Then Marvel could make the first good FF movie ever and if we lived in a perfect world they would cast Kristen Bell as Sue Richards and it wouldn't be a damned origin story.
I think some companies think it's worth 60 million just to spit at a competitor. That was certainly the case of Sony until leaked emails told the shareholders that the leadership thought like that.
I would be more interested in seeing Silver Surfer and the Skrulls in the GotG setting than another F4 film. The MCU has enough smart-ass scientists.
@SmilingSword - LOL. I'd Love to see Veronica Mars as Sue Storm. Her brand of snarkiness would be, if not perfect, at least LOADS of fun to watch. Would Ryan Hansen play Johnny Storm?
@Fardragon - If you honestly think that any company could survive in Hollywood with that business strategy, then you really don't know how it works over here.
I think that a FF movie could be done, and done well. They just haven't got the right people behind it. Even if it stays in the X-verse, I still have hopes that they will get their act together. Certainly after a HUGE miss-step with X-3, they managed to pull things together again and keep Xmen alive (with high hopes for the next Xmen and the 'last' Wolverine movies).
Let's all take a minute to hate on Fox. Really how do they manage to always get things so wrong? At least the new Deadpool is looking good, but what they did to him in that horrible Origins movie is still unforgivable. Galactus is not a cloud and why in the nine hells does Apocalypse look like a Ivan Ooze rip off?
At least the new Deadpool is looking good, but what they did to him in that horrible Origins movie is still unforgivable.
So many things were done wrong with the Wolverine Origins movie. I think they've done a lot to recover for that. And I have high hopes for Deadpool.
And I can't blame Fox exclusively for the new Fantastic Four movie. Fox might be guilty of a lot of ills, but that was a culmination of a lot of factors and can't be boiled down to some simple 'magic bullet'.
Comments
I blame the New York-LA dominance of the entertainment industry.
I think Game of Thrones was invented just to give us in the States exposure to various British accents... which for some reason is the language of fantasy films. I can just see the Geordie Shore starring the Onion Knight.
"BBC" is obsolete. These days it doesn't matter what your accent is to be on the BBC, so long as your grammar is appalling.
GoT-northern is potentially a fourth, but it doesn't seem to have spread very far beyond Westeros yet.
If they look like this, who cares what accent they use or if it is fake or real.
Better?
I thought the first one wasn't really all that bad. I kind of enjoyed it. The second one was pretty awful, because they messed up Galactus, among other reasons.
So, is this latest attempt as bad as the buzz says it is?
I'll not even start to discuss all the changes to the lore...
After sitting in the movie for an hour and a half, I found that I didn't care at all for any of the characters or their individual plights. There was nothing engaging about any of them nor was what was going on compelling in any way. There was no chemistry between the actors, particularly the 'Love interest(s)' that should exist (I won't spoiler it here, but if you have read the comics or seen either of the two previous outings, or you merely don't live under a rock, you will know who I mean), and even the 'Family' feel simply does not exist even where they try to force it down your throat as a part of the 'Plot'.
The plot itself was VERY predictable and there was no anticipation nor any real fear that it wouldn't resolve happily. The fight scenes were rote and not very exciting. Even when the good guys are up against the wall, you never have any fear that they won't overcome. And despite it being predictable, it is still so far fetched that you are like 'No, they are not going there, are they?'
What's more, there were HUGE plot holes. I'm not talking about "Why didn't Gandalf use the Eagles to get the ring to mount doom" plot holes, where true geek fans have to work REALLY hard to say it is a flaw, or where it is subject to some simple (but dumb) mechanic of the plot. I'm talking about characters disappearing for really REALLY long periods of time for no readily explainable reasons and completely contrary to their established personalities. One character survives without food or water, well for longer than it is humanly (or even inhumanly) possible to do so. Again, there was no real chemistry or cohesion between the characters, which leads to another plot hole in that one particular relationship that 'SHOULD' exist and is used to resolve another issue, feels empty and totally unexplained.
And then there are significant sections of the cinematic trailer previews that simply do not happen in the movie (Extended edition anyone?). While I like extended editions and usually buy them, I don't expect that they will tease one prior to the release of the first run movie. And the sections that apparently 'Got cut' would have added to the excitement of the movie itself.
I went into the movie expecting that the 'Re-imagining' of several key characters would be the most horrible part of the movie. Turns out, you didn't care enough about the movie as a whole for those changes to matter that much. The reasons for the change were there and if not good, at least explainable. But who cared? I certainly didn't.
And
There is no cameo from the rest of the X-men universe, no tease of movies yet to come and no inclusion into the larger universe. And no 'ending scene' after the credits that has become the hallmark of Marvel to date.
I am so glad that this got put into the X-verse rather than MCU, because now I can say that they still haven't missed a beat (in MCU). But it really speaks to some grave concerns ABOUT the X-verse if the types of decisions made here are indicative of what is to come. Maybe it is just a curse that Fantastic Four movies aren't any good. But it seems to me that if they were to actually give it the kind of ingenuity and attention that even Thor got, they COULD make a good movie. Just look at 'The Incredibles'.
If you haven't seen it? I say wait till it is on HBO. I kind of wish I had.
I'd even give them the kids (who are like the best characters anyway). Just establish what they do by having them face off against a giant monster or monsters (moloids anyone?) to showcase their powers and establish that they are beloved superheroes who are popular among the masses, as everyone cheers for them saving NYC yet again, and all the ladies go crazy and ask for Johnny's autograph while Reed and Sue share a moment of being a sweet couple and maybe seeing their kids. The Thing doesn't really enjoy it as much and then Reed feels bad and promises to find a cure. Then just jump into the story.
The simple fact is that the Fantastic Four are AWESOME but their origin story is really very pedestrian. They should concentrate more on the SCIENCE-Y ADVENTURE and FAMILY themes rather than trying to be super serious.
I haven't seen it yet but when I read reviews and hear that I just feel like the people who made this fundamentally do NOT understand what makes the Fantastic Four appealing. I could tell straight from the trailers that they were just going to take it too seriously to begin with. They are so afraid of being corny that they made the movie really dark. I think they are afraid because they believe the first films failed for being corny, when really the problem wasn't that they were cheesy but that they were stupid.
These movies need to be less The Dark Knight and more The Incredibles
Again, I didn't personally care for any of the characters. There's a point where one particularly hot-headed character actually chooses to play the chicken and opt out of something dangerous where very thing up to that point suggests that he would be jumping out in front. And when a call for personal connection between the characters is necessary to further the plot, you wonder why it worked because the characters didn't seem that cohesive to begin with.
I'd love to see a straight out monster mash movie with adult versions of the FF if that were in the offering but I suspect that this franchise will once again be left (rightfully or not) to rot on the vine.
Maybe it was because the actors couldn't pull them off, but honestly it felt more like they tried to cram in a much larger story line into a short movie and had to cut significant portions. That would explain a rather glaring and significant gap that takes place in the center of the movie as well. An event happens and then you get "(paraphrasing)... some time later". If they had actually shown what happened with the characters during that time frame maybe you would believe other sections better. Certainly it would have made the movie flow better instead of jolting along. But even that wouldn't have been a silver bullet in this case as certain things had to not only happen but be more fully explored before that point anyway.
If Trank had been able to manage himself and the studio better, would this have been a good film? Possibly, but I'm pretty sure it would have still annoyed hardcore fans (the way Man of Steel annoyed me).
Then Marvel could make the first good FF movie ever and if we lived in a perfect world they would cast Kristen Bell as Sue Richards and it wouldn't be a damned origin story.
As Sue...?
...
Do ya wanna turn invisible?
C'mon, let's disappear!
You'll never see me anymore.
Whatcha you looking for?
I'm naked over here!
(Not that you could tell!)
It gets a little lonely
Being the only girl-
Character in this fiiiiiiiilm!
So ya wanna turn invisible?
OH GODS MAKE IT STOP.
I would be more interested in seeing Silver Surfer and the Skrulls in the GotG setting than another F4 film. The MCU has enough smart-ass scientists.
@Fardragon - If you honestly think that any company could survive in Hollywood with that business strategy, then you really don't know how it works over here.
I think that a FF movie could be done, and done well. They just haven't got the right people behind it. Even if it stays in the X-verse, I still have hopes that they will get their act together. Certainly after a HUGE miss-step with X-3, they managed to pull things together again and keep Xmen alive (with high hopes for the next Xmen and the 'last' Wolverine movies).
Really how do they manage to always get things so wrong? At least the new Deadpool is looking good, but what they did to him in that horrible Origins movie is still unforgivable. Galactus is not a cloud and why in the nine hells does Apocalypse look like a Ivan Ooze rip off?
And I can't blame Fox exclusively for the new Fantastic Four movie. Fox might be guilty of a lot of ills, but that was a culmination of a lot of factors and can't be boiled down to some simple 'magic bullet'.
...
I'll take it
I give this an A+. I love how he agrees with my Incredibles comparison.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/142847-Fantastic-Four-Switches-From-Fox-To-Marvel-For-X-Men-TV-Rights-Rumor