Katana purchase - Candlekeep

Lord_Savage

*** EDIT **** Changed dual classing to MAGE. Originally I posted Sorcerer.

This took me WAY too long to figure out but I thought I would share with other noobs like me wanting to start with a Katana w/o using cheats* (see below). The katana has a 'normal' starting price of 750GPs.

1) Choose a Lawful Good alignment (Reputation 12)
2) Make sure your character has a 16 or higher in Charisma.
3) Talk to Firebead Elvenhair exactly 30 times for the 300GP Easter egg.
4) Complete the remaining quests in Candlekeep to buy the kantana @ the following price(s):

w/16 CHR - 710GPs - It can be done but just barely if you liquidate EVERYTHING you find.
w/17 CHR - 675GPs
w/18 CHR - 635GPs

I'm starting my first campaign as a Human Lawful Good Kensai. I plan to dual class later on as a MAGE. Hopefully Beamdog finishes Baldur's Gate 1.5 (aka Adventure "Y") before I continue on to Baldur's Gate 2.

*** You may want to use the EE Autoroller program to speed up the stat process *** I don't consider EE Autoroller a cheat because it just automates your 'dice rolling' within the game itself. You go mind numb waiting for 91 to 93 point totals and you have the benefit of a 18/00 STR. It took Autoroller about 2 hours to come up with a 97 point total AND a 18/92.

*** The EE Autoroller program is attached to this post ***
*** Make sure you are in 'Windowed Mode" in BG in order to use program. ***
*** Tutorial on how to use EE Autoroller ***
https://youtu.be/8R5khGNTqiA


However, if you have the patience and not set on a high 18 % STR, you should achieve a minimum of 91 to 93 total points by 'manually' rolling in a hour or 2.

http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/10937/utility-ee-autoroller

STR: 18/92
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 17
WIS: 10
CHR: 16

Wish me luck... I'm sure I will make some changes to this strategy after I finish BG 1 EE.

Jarrakul

Also, if you're a barbarian with a high strength, or a thief with ~65 Open Locks, you can steal a star sapphire from the second floor of the inn and use the money to buy the katana.

DreadKhan

1d10 + 1 = 6.5
1d8 + 2 + 1 = 7.5 #JustSayin

In my experience, if starting in BG1, you really don't NEED 18/00, but it is a heck of a buff compared to 18/01.

Wowo

Auto rolling is cheating, opinions on the matter are irrelevant.
You can't dual class to sorcerer.
11 wisdom doesn't seem helpful as the target is 18 (15 is a more usual place to start).
Kensei should dual at level 9 or 13, not 12.
Katana is an inferior choice through all of bg1 with longsword, scimitar, dagger, mace, bastard sword being better.
If you want to dual to mage then you'll need 17 intelligence.

elminster

Lord_Savage said:

I'm starting my first campaign as a Human Lawful Good Kensai. I plan to dual class later on as Sorcerer

Umm...good luck with that?

elminster

Jarrakul said:

Also, if you're a barbarian with a high strength, or a thief with ~65 Open Locks, you can steal a star sapphire from the second floor of the inn and use the money to buy the katana.

Technically you just need 60. It just may take a few tries.

Lord_Savage

Didn't know you cant Dual Class to Sorcerer. Auto rolling again for a Kensai/Mage build. Thanks... I'm tempted to continue playing as a straight Kensai. The High CHR makes talking to people 'pleasant' I know there are more powerful weapons like the flail/axe... the katana has that 'cool' angle going for me. I just feel 'bad ass' starting out the gate with a katana earned without using a 'major cheat'. I find the auto roller harmless and VERY easy to use for a noob like me.

Lord_Savage

Jarrakul said:

Also, if you're a barbarian with a high strength, or a thief with ~65 Open Locks, you can steal a star sapphire from the second floor of the inn and use the money to buy the katana.

Excellent points but I'm dead set on playing a Kensai initially.

Southpaw

...or you can kill one of the Watchers in the keep for armour that you can sell then.
You know...as a Lawful Good Kensai...

Lord_Savage

Southpaw said:

...or you can kill one of the Watchers in the keep for armour that you can sell then.
You know...as a Lawful Good Kensai...

Actually tried that but then my Reputation went to Hell... and the katana was priced adjusted well over 1,000GPs. More than what the Armour brought in unless you kill all of them. Either way.... put a bad taste in my mouth as Lawful Good. Taking the high road instead of renaming myself Anakin.

Lord_Savage

Okay... got my new stats using the autoroller. 97 points & 18/92. Took more than an hour. Off I go as a Kensai with a katana from the start. Dual class Mage when it seems optimum. Who knows with 'Adventure Y' from Beamdog in the works.

STR: 18/92
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 17
WIS: 10
CHR: 16 - Yes if you liquidate every weapon you 'find' + quests + Easter egg... you have just enough GPs to buy the katana @ 710GPs w/ 16 CHR.

abacus

Auto-roller seems completely pointless to me... if you're that desperate for good stats, why not just use a save editor like eeKeeper?

Dee

Is 16 Charisma high enough to get the +1 Dagger from Fuller? I'm pretty sure you need an 18 Charisma to get it. Not that it would do you much good without being able to identify it...

elminster

Dee said:

Is 16 Charisma high enough to get the +1 Dagger from Fuller? I'm pretty sure you need an 18 Charisma to get it. Not that it would do you much good without being able to identify it...

Yea you need 18.

wubble

Paladins can get it with lower can't they?

FrdNwsm

Kensai are inferior in every way to berserkers. Just a heads up. Read up on all the things berserking can make you immune to during combat, then compare that to the wimpy kensai abilities. Plus, Kensai can't use missile weapons, armor, gauntlets or any of the really cool stuff.

OK, maybe I am prejudiced. I took my berserker from level 1 in BG:EE to currently level 19/Ch 6 in SoA, and he's a monster. Gauntlets of blinding strike, +3 fire resistant plate mail, "Heartseeker" +3 longbow ... none of which a Kensai could use. Also berserking, among other things, makes you immune to level draining. There are a fair number of life draining undead running around in SoA. A robe-wearing Kensai just can't do the same stuff.

Now, I do understand that you don't plan to remain a Kensai, so some of those limitations are irrelevant since you won't be wearing armor as a mage, and missile weapons will take a back seat to spells. But once you dual over, and then finally get to the appropriate level where you get your former skills back, the berserker abilities will still have the edge over the Kensai.

Certainly, if you are set on using a Kensai for RP reasons, feel free to ignore everything I have just said. Once your mage gets to a high enough level to cast decent stoneskin, shield and ghost armor spells, you will be pretty well protected physically in any event. And the +3 katana "Celestial Fury" in SoA is one of the best weapons around.

DreadKhan

In BG1, Kensai really are always worse than berserkers, but if you can stand dualing later in SoA, you'll be a better fighter if Kensai. Of course, thst means playing a pure Kensai for more than half the game, then an underleveled (but definately still useful) wizard for a good chunk of SoA, just to make ToB easier. Ymmv to say the least; some people love that kind of play, some hate it powerfully.

Edit: Barbarian rage makes you immune to Level Drain, Zerk gives immunity to Imprisonment, a rare but difficult to avoid effect.

Lord_Savage

abacus said:

Auto-roller seems completely pointless to me... if you're that desperate for good stats, why not just use a save editor like eeKeeper?

Using the EE Autoroller comes across to me as more 'natural' using the ingame mechanics of "reroll" versus a direct hack edit.

Dee

One thing I recommend, especially if you're going for katanas, is putting your last two pips into Single Weapon Style at level 1. You can always add points in Two-Weapon Style in BGII:EE, but in BG:EE you won't be finding enough katanas to make that a worthwhile proposition, and you'll definitely want the extra points of AC to help you survive.

Personally, when I make a kensai (and I do occasionally), I go with longswords instead, mainly because I like wielding Varscona and because I don't have the patience to talk to Firebead thirty times.

Lord_Savage

Dee said:

Is 16 Charisma high enough to get the +1 Dagger from Fuller? I'm pretty sure you need an 18 Charisma to get it. Not that it would do you much good without being able to identify it...

He just gives me gold every time w/16 CHR.

Lord_Savage

FrdNwsm said:

Kensai are inferior in every way to berserkers. Just a heads up.

Certainly, if you are set on using a Kensai for RP reasons, feel free to ignore everything I have just said. Once your mage gets to a high enough level to cast decent stoneskin, shield and ghost armor spells, you will be pretty well protected physically in any event. And the +3 katana "Celestial Fury" in SoA is one of the best weapons around.

No I appreciate the insight. I agree that pound per pound the Barb(s) are superior but yes... I'm set on using the Kensai for RP reasons... something about the Kensai class gives me the butterflies in the gut and wielding a katana is almost like my character wielding a light saber... especially that KAT_CF +3. I have a hard time envisioning a Beserker using a katana.

The GREAT wild card is Adventure Y. I've decided that once I'm finished with BGEE 1, I will wait for Adventure Y before I continue on with BGEE 2. There may be some game-changing advantages to every class.

I just purchased IceWind Dale EE.... so that will keep me occupied until AY debuts this year.

Lord_Savage

Dee said:

One thing I recommend, especially if you're going for katanas, is putting your last two pips into Single Weapon Style at level 1. You can always add points in Two-Weapon Style in BGII:EE, but in BG:EE you won't be finding enough katanas to make that a worthwhile proposition, and you'll definitely want the extra points of AC to help you survive.

Personally, when I make a kensai (and I do occasionally), I go with longswords instead, mainly because I like wielding Varscona and because I don't have the patience to talk to Firebead thirty times.

@Dee

Thanks... I was putting my points into Two-Weapon Style. I need to autoroll a new character anyways and start over for different reasons. I didn't get vary far past Candlekeep.

I did read in one of the BeamDog patches that Ogre Magi drop Katanas now in BGEE 1. I was thinking that would hold me over for my 2nd katana until I find that magical one in the Cloakwood mines.

The beauty of BGEE ... Adventure Y.... BGEE 2... IceWind Dale EE is that these low level PC demanding games will keep me VERY occupied until Star Citizen, Chris Robert's EPIC Space Sim, is ready for "Retail" in 2016 or 2017.

https://RobertsSpaceIndustries.com

FrdNwsm

DreadKhan said:

In BG1, Kensai really are always worse than berserkers, but if you can stand dualing later in SoA, you'll be a better fighter if Kensai. Of course, thst means playing a pure Kensai for more than half the game, then an underleveled (but definately still useful) wizard for a good chunk of SoA, just to make ToB easier. Ymmv to say the least; some people love that kind of play, some hate it powerfully.

Edit: Barbarian rage makes you immune to Level Drain, Zerk gives immunity to Imprisonment, a rare but difficult to avoid effect.

Berserker rage does it all, and lasts 10 rounds compared to 5 for the barbarian. Barbarians do get more HP, however.

FrdNwsm

Kensai will eventually become more proficient with weapons than berserkers, but it takes a long time. And those defensive penalties are killer, especially when compared to Berserker immunities. No armor? No Gauntlets of ogre power? No bracers of defense? No missile weapons? Ouch!

Note: Missile weapons are much more powerful, comparatively speaking, in BG1 than BG2. You can take out low level foes before they get into melee range, which dramatically increases the survivability of level 1 characters. Now, Kensai can actually bend the rules a bit, by buying throwing axes, but you can't carry nearly as many of them as you can arrows or sling stones.

Jarrakul

Poor BG1 kensai. That inability to use gauntlets or bracers really undermines their ability to do the only thing they're good at. As the game goes on, their bonuses increase and AC becomes less crucial, so they eventually get pretty good, but man are they terrible in BG1.

Incidentally, I'd probably argue for daggers and dual-wielding as the strongest BG1 option for kensai, mechanically. Dual daggers will outdamage a single katana, and there's no shortage of good magical daggers. Plus you actually get a ranged weapon out of the deal, albeit a frustratingly heavy one.

DreadKhan

Daggers are really great all around in BG1, but there is a funny thing about daggers; throwing daggers have no magic options in BG1, but have easily one of the best melee options in the DoV, while in BG2, melee daggers are kinda lackluster, contrasted nicely by the inanely good throwing daggers. Weird!

Southpaw

Jarrakul said:

Poor BG1 kensai. That inability to use gauntlets or bracers really undermines their ability to do the only thing they're good at. As the game goes on, their bonuses increase and AC becomes less crucial, so they eventually get pretty good, but man are they terrible in BG1.

Incidentally, I'd probably argue for daggers and dual-wielding as the strongest BG1 option for kensai, mechanically. Dual daggers will outdamage a single katana, and there's no shortage of good magical daggers. Plus you actually get a ranged weapon out of the deal, albeit a frustratingly heavy one.

For the first part, I have an easy answer - the Shield Amulet you can buy. Earliest in Nashkel Carnival I think. Get to a map, cast shield on your Kensai and MURDER EVERYONE!
Heal, rest, change maps, lather, rinse, repeat.

For the second part - I have to agree. Daggers are actually quite good for a Kensai, especially as you can murder a lot of baddies with simple throwing daggers early in BG1 even before they get to you, making the high AC point moot.
Later, the bonuses will stack up and with the Shield Amulet or some potions - you can use magical dual daggers which are easy to get to +2 and +3 enchantments. (You can have a +1 within 5 minutes of BG1 - if you power-game a charisma 18. (Or kill Fuller) and you can get the +2 dagger while still on level 1/2)
Dagger of Venom in BG1 is insanely useful and the daggers get even better in BG2 (also - magical throwing ones. There was a good thread recently from a forum member that played a dagger-throwing Kensai with -28 THAC0 at the end of ToB+about 4.5 APR)

Jarrakul

The Shield Amulet is definitely a must, but even with it, you manage a slightly worse AC than a vanilla fighter, about the same attack/damage (due to Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise), and no ability to use ranged weapons. I guess you get kiai to make up for it, but... big whoop? I'm not saying the kensai's unplayable, maybe not even wizard-slayer levels of bad (although I'm not sure about that), but it's still pretty bad.

As for daggers, while I'll definitely agree that melee daggers are worse in BG2 than in BG1 (and ranged daggers are better in BG2), it is worth remembering that BG2 has the Pixie Prick. Everyone seems to forget about it, but it's basically a dagger version of Celestial Fury.

GoodSteve

Pixie Prick isn't quite as good as Celestial Fury though. For starters the damage is quite different, 1d4+3 for the dagger to the 1d10+3 of Celestial Fury. Also, Celestial Fury has a 5% chance of causing an additional 20 electricity damage, the weilder can cast Blindness and Lightning Bolt both once per day. Pixie Prick is slightly faster though, with a speed factor of 0 instead of 1, but both are intensely fast and that difference wont come up much if at all. Pixie Prick causes sleep which is resisted by elves and half-elves but uses the Save vs. Poison while Celestial Fury causes stun which isn't resisted by any of the main races but uses Save vs. Spells. However, Dwarves and Halflings will recieve a bonus to saves against Spells and Poison based on their constitution scores, while Gnomes will only get a bonus to saves vs. Spells meaning gnomes can only resist Celestial Fury more commonly while the other shorties will resist both more frequently.

It is a good dagger, to be sure, but I wouldn't really call it on par with Celestial Fury exactly.

DreadKhan

Pixie Prick isn't garbage, but I'd rather use the BG1 Dagger of Venom! I agree its not CF though.

Jarrakul

Pixie Prick is also disables for 2 rounds instead of 1, which I would argue at least makes up for the loss of damage. Besides, I'm not really arguing that it's quite as good as CF, just that it's a dagger that has (essentially) the same ability that makes everyone drool over CF.

That said, CF's other abilities are pretty lackluster. The bonus electrical damage is worse than just +1 electrical damage, since it gives an average damage bonus of +1 but can't reliably disrupt spells through Stoneskin. CF's activatable abilities, meanwhile, are alright at best, and you don't need to build a katana-wielder to make use of them anyway.

@DreadKhan, my gut reaction was to agree with you, but on reflection, I don't think I do. There are very few situations where I'd rather deal 15 damage over as many seconds than knock an enemy out for 2 rounds. The Dagger of Venom is phenomenal, but... I think Pixie Prick is better, albeit somewhat weakened by the game it's in (BG2 has more powerful weapons in general, and better saves).