It looks likethe Default CHARNAME for the Good party is Abdel
Yeesh, don't profane these forums with that name. Personally, I'm still reeling from his presence in the demo. I don't think any of the old players ever use him as protagonist.
Imoen is one of my favorite characters and I really would like her to come along in the party however I actually totally understand if she has off-screen importance and does something away from the party. It would actually be a good way to justify her canon dual-class so as much as I would like to have her along, I think it might make more sense and be better for the character if she was elsewhere.
The 4 new NPCS. The 4 from BG:EE. Then we have Minsc, Dyna, Jaheira, Khalid, Safana, Edwin, and Viconia.
That's 15 that we KNOW OF.
Now are there any roles missing from that? So far among the new npcs we have a: Fighter, Shaman, Cleric/Thief, and Bard. The EE npcs give us Monk, Blackguard, Mage, and Sorcerer. Then the old npcs that we KNOW are in are Ranger, Mage, Fighter/Druid, Fighter, Thief, Mage, and Cleric.
So that means 5ish warrior types, 4ish priest types (2 are multi), only one thief and a multi-class thief, 4 mage-types, and a Bard.
I think really another thief or two would probably buffer the numbers well but I don't really see any holes that require being filled in that lineup. While I certainly would like to see a couple other old BG NPCs in, I don't think it's really necessary. 15 possible different companions to take with you is a pretty damn high number as is.
I would take everything Andrew says with a grain of salt, especially when he's doing his Sportscaster voice.
I would. It's an off the cuff remark from a Beamdog employee with intimate knowledge of the current state of the game. It reflects a feeling that Bioware npcs that didn't make it to BG2 are "odd".
odd man out / odd one out 1. a person or thing that is different from others. In this test, you have to decide which of these three objects is the odd one out. 2. a person or thing that is left over when teams etc are made up. When they chose the two teams, I was the odd man out.
odd one out (plural odd ones out)
(idiomatic) Something or someone in a group that is different or exceptional, that does not fit. (idiomatic) A visual puzzle where the guesser has to choose which word/picture/symbol etc. does not fit with the others.
There are more definitons out there yes, and the phrase isn't necessarily negative but often is. It's not a phrase for characters that you think belong.
6. Andrew Foley's Comment: Safana the Odd Woman Out
Around 2:07 In the Twitch Demo. Andrew Foley describes "The beloved Ranger Minsc" and mentions the BG2 canon party members except when he gets to Safana he says "Safana, the Odd Woman Out"
This is an indication that Beamdog does not have much love for Safana and likely all the BGEE Bioware NPCs that don't make it to BG2EE.
A few things:
Dee downplays it a bit--everything I say when I'm doing the sportscaster schtick should be taken with a pillar of salt.
I hadn't expected to be doing the demo commentary in the style I ended up doing it and as a result what I said was very much off the cuff. When I said Safana was the odd woman out, I believe I was referring to was her general moral outlook compared to the rest of the good-aligned party. I didn't actually know who was going to be in the demo party until Lorne started playing.
I don't know if it made it out on the stream, but I also said Safana wasn't very smart at one point during the demo, which was an in-the-moment comment made to fill air time that I regretted instantly. I can't remember the exact circumstances and I haven't reviewed the footage because I avoid listening to my own voice as much as I possibly can, but I think there was some AI or timing thing that had he respond to something in a way that struck me as off. So I think that was less a comment on the character than the game that was made in the heat of the moment, but I can see where it could be interpreted differently, and as I said, I feel bad about that one.
I actually quite like Safana as a character in BGEE. I wasn't thrilled with her treatment in BGIIEE.
Everyone in the office has party members from BGEE that they love that didn't make it to BGIIEE. The idea we don't care for the BGEE-only NPCs is a serious mischaracterization of the reality.
@AndrewFoley I'm glad that you say that, but what matters is the end result: you all have very likely cut almost all the BGEE-only NPCs from play. We won't get these extra 25 hours of content with them and that's not a lot of love in effect.
If I remember right when TotSC was released way way back. you could not add Kalid or Dynaheir into the default party of Abdel, Jaheira Imoen Minsc Viconia and Edwin. If you went back into the original BG1 maps you find only their dead bodies.
@OzzyBotkins The Mission pack save is something different entirely. If you started a new Totsc game, you could visit the new areas and get new quests and be unimpeded in keeping your party members.
Ok.. Just a reminder: They have announced that the party which defeats Sarevok will be your starting party in SoD and they have strongly hinted at that you end with the BG2 "canon party". They also said that not all npcs are available at all times.. Or to sum it up: All BGEE NPCs are in it and they will leave you at certain points for believeable reasons, since this was the stated goal of SoD.
Also, we have the conformation that Skie ran away at one point, which means that she was their in the first place... How many people do you think take her with them? (Or even know how..)
Your theory is an anti-thesis of SoDs goals imho.
EDIT: Mhm.. If you want, you could even help me. I'm unsure who I want to take with me for my next playthrough.. So.. tell me a couple of NPCs you think will be cut, so that I can take them with me. ^_^ (Or in other words, it is a bet, if you win I have "wasted" my time on them, otherwise I have an uncommen party and see (maybe) some intresting stuff in SoD )
@Arcanis I updated the OP with the following additional points to respond to you:
[spoiler]7. The Deafening Silence
No Dev has every said "All BGEE NPCs will be playable". The trailers only show Khalid, Jaheira, Dyanaheir, Minsc, Imoen. With other Twitch announcement screenshots including Edwin and Viconia as well.
"Perhaps your companions can help answer that question. Many of Baldur’s Gate’s most famous characters are back, including several who didn’t make it to the sequel. Khalid returns, Dynaheir joins him and Minsc is the same omnicidal extrovert as ever"
If the devs intended to support all BGEE characters, the interview should say all not "several". Why would Beamdog report to the interviewers "several" if they intended "all". No mentions of any NPCs in these interviews other than the canon BG2 party.
The devs have decided not to release the voice actor list yet. Other than not securing the voice acting yet, it seems likely to delay official knowledge of who won't return.
Dee and Andrew Foley have both commented in this thread only to cast doubt on conclusions drawn from 6 above. No casting doubts on any of the other logic presented in this thread. If what Phil Daigle said was explicitly true, players can transfer and keep their party from BGEE, why wouldn't the devs explicitly say that all BGEE NPCs were returning or choose to cast doubts on the other points mentioned?
Andrew Foley's comment may be telling:
"The idea we don't care for the BGEE-only NPCs is a serious mischaracterization of the reality."
Exactly what is this reality? The reality he referred to could be merely that they "do care" , but it could also refer to the reality that many BGEE NPCs aren't returning.
8. Exception for Rasaad
Because of Beamdog preference for Beamdog NPCs over Bioware ones, Rasaad will most likely return even though he isn't party of any canon starting party.
The following comment gives some credence to Rasaad's inclusion:
During a conversation with Rasaad and Jahiera, the PC mentions mentions a place called Bridgefort and that Khalid and her were seperated there.
The Devs during the Q&A session said that Dorn, Neera, and Rasaad were returning. Although this does not necessarily have to mean that Rasaad is a playable NPC, given the above, it's much more likely that he is playable instead of not.[/spoiler]
Please take Skie, Eldoth, Alora, Garrick, and Shar-Teel. I have little confidence those NPCs will get much playing time in SoD if any.
@Arcanis I updated the OP with the following additional points to respond to you:
[spoiler]7. The Deafening Silence
No Dev has every said "All BGEE NPCs will be playable". The trailers only show Khalid, Jaheira, Dyanaheir, Minsc, Imoen. With other Twitch announcement screenshots including Edwin and Viconia as well.
"Perhaps your companions can help answer that question. Many of Baldur’s Gate’s most famous characters are back, including several who didn’t make it to the sequel. Khalid returns, Dynaheir joins him and Minsc is the same omnicidal extrovert as ever"
If the devs intended to support all BGEE characters, the interview should say all not "several". Why would Beamdog report to the interviewers "several" if they intended "all". No mentions of any NPCs in these interviews other than the canon BG2 party.
The devs have decided not to release the voice actor list yet. Other than not securing the voice acting yet, it seems likely to delay official knowledge of who won't return.
Dee and Andrew Foley have both commented in this thread only to cast doubt on conclusions drawn from 6 above. No casting doubts on any of the other logic presented in this thread. If what Phil Daigle said was explicitly true, players can transfer and keep their party from BGEE, why wouldn't the devs explicitly say that all BGEE NPCs were returning or choose to cast doubts on the other points mentioned?
Andrew Foley's comment may be telling:
"The idea we don't care for the BGEE-only NPCs is a serious mischaracterization of the reality."
Exactly what is this reality? The reality he referred to could be merely that they "do care" , but it could also refer to the reality that many BGEE NPCs aren't returning.
8. Exception for Rasaad
Because of Beamdog preference for Beamdog NPCs over Bioware ones, Rasaad will most likely return even though he isn't party of any canon starting party.
The following comment gives some credence to Rasaad's inclusion:
During a conversation with Rasaad and Jahiera, the PC mentions mentions a place called Bridgefort and that Khalid and her were seperated there.
The Devs during the Q&A session said that Dorn, Neera, and Rasaad were returning. Although this does not necessarily have to mean that Rasaad is a playable NPC, given the above, it's much more likely that he is playable instead of not.[/spoiler]
Please take Skie, Eldoth, Alora, Garrick, and Shar-Teel. I have little confidence those NPCs will get much playing time in SoD if any.
..I give up, you know my position and we will see once the game is out ^^
I'm tempted to split that a bit, cuz this party is absolutly dysfunctional (Garrick has a conflict with Eldoth & Shar-Teel will kill him) Is it Acceptable if I make 2 partys: Group alignment CN Garrick, Alora, Shar, Quayle (for healing) +1 rotating Group alignment TN Eldoth, Skie, Faldorn (heals), +2 rotating
Rotating means that I will temporarly take a npc for a couple of quests and then boot him/her for another one, only the listed ones will stay permanently. Need to think of Charnames four those groups tho. ^^
You can split it up if you wish, of course perhaps the point is playing all through BGEE and suffering the pain of losing all your party members. So please add some more NPCs of the list below to those groups.
We'll probably be confirmed quickly as to which NPCs in SoD are playable. So please, get those parties started in preparation to suffer!
Below is a list I made on my opinion of the least likely to most likely to be included (granted that even the most likely ones on this list are still most very likely not to be included i SoD)
Least likely playable Bioware BGEE-only NPCs imo (in order of least likely) (none are likely, but if I had to choose...)
My logic that order was based on known disappearances (Skie), followed by SoD NPC redundant roles, followed by canon thief removals, followed by duplicate sample CHARNAME pictures, followed by remaining NPCs appearing in BG2, followed by the remaining NPCs. Whenever one part of an NPC pair was removed, the other part of the pair was removed as well.
Comments
The 4 new NPCS. The 4 from BG:EE. Then we have Minsc, Dyna, Jaheira, Khalid, Safana, Edwin, and Viconia.
That's 15 that we KNOW OF.
Now are there any roles missing from that? So far among the new npcs we have a: Fighter, Shaman, Cleric/Thief, and Bard. The EE npcs give us Monk, Blackguard, Mage, and Sorcerer. Then the old npcs that we KNOW are in are Ranger, Mage, Fighter/Druid, Fighter, Thief, Mage, and Cleric.
So that means 5ish warrior types, 4ish priest types (2 are multi), only one thief and a multi-class thief, 4 mage-types, and a Bard.
I think really another thief or two would probably buffer the numbers well but I don't really see any holes that require being filled in that lineup. While I certainly would like to see a couple other old BG NPCs in, I don't think it's really necessary. 15 possible different companions to take with you is a pretty damn high number as is.
I would take it that Safana is a character that Beamdog paticularly like, not one they dislike.
odd man out / odd one out
1. a person or thing that is different from others. In this test, you have to decide which of these three objects is the odd one out.
2. a person or thing that is left over when teams etc are made up. When they chose the two teams, I was the odd man out.
odd one out (plural odd ones out)
(idiomatic) Something or someone in a group that is different or exceptional, that does not fit.
(idiomatic) A visual puzzle where the guesser has to choose which word/picture/symbol etc. does not fit with the others.
There are more definitons out there yes, and the phrase isn't necessarily negative but often is. It's not a phrase for characters that you think belong.
Dee downplays it a bit--everything I say when I'm doing the sportscaster schtick should be taken with a pillar of salt.
I hadn't expected to be doing the demo commentary in the style I ended up doing it and as a result what I said was very much off the cuff. When I said Safana was the odd woman out, I believe I was referring to was her general moral outlook compared to the rest of the good-aligned party. I didn't actually know who was going to be in the demo party until Lorne started playing.
I don't know if it made it out on the stream, but I also said Safana wasn't very smart at one point during the demo, which was an in-the-moment comment made to fill air time that I regretted instantly. I can't remember the exact circumstances and I haven't reviewed the footage because I avoid listening to my own voice as much as I possibly can, but I think there was some AI or timing thing that had he respond to something in a way that struck me as off. So I think that was less a comment on the character than the game that was made in the heat of the moment, but I can see where it could be interpreted differently, and as I said, I feel bad about that one.
I actually quite like Safana as a character in BGEE. I wasn't thrilled with her treatment in BGIIEE.
Everyone in the office has party members from BGEE that they love that didn't make it to BGIIEE. The idea we don't care for the BGEE-only NPCs is a serious mischaracterization of the reality.
They have announced that the party which defeats Sarevok will be your starting party in SoD
and they have strongly hinted at that you end with the BG2 "canon party".
They also said that not all npcs are available at all times..
Or to sum it up:
All BGEE NPCs are in it and they will leave you at certain points for believeable reasons, since this
was the stated goal of SoD.
Also, we have the conformation that Skie ran away at one point, which means that she was their
in the first place... How many people do you think take her with them? (Or even know how..)
Your theory is an anti-thesis of SoDs goals imho.
EDIT:
Mhm.. If you want, you could even help me. I'm unsure who I want to take with me for my next playthrough..
So.. tell me a couple of NPCs you think will be cut, so that I can take them with me. ^_^
(Or in other words, it is a bet, if you win I have "wasted" my time on them, otherwise I have an uncommen
party and see (maybe) some intresting stuff in SoD
[spoiler]7. The Deafening Silence
No Dev has every said "All BGEE NPCs will be playable". The trailers only show Khalid, Jaheira, Dyanaheir, Minsc, Imoen. With other Twitch announcement screenshots including Edwin and Viconia as well.
The Rock Paper Shotgun interview at http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/17/baldurs-gate-3/ states:
"Perhaps your companions can help answer that question. Many of Baldur’s Gate’s most famous characters are back, including several who didn’t make it to the sequel. Khalid returns, Dynaheir joins him and Minsc is the same omnicidal extrovert as ever"
If the devs intended to support all BGEE characters, the interview should say all not "several". Why would Beamdog report to the interviewers "several" if they intended "all". No mentions of any NPCs in these interviews other than the canon BG2 party.
The devs have decided not to release the voice actor list yet. Other than not securing the voice acting yet, it seems likely to delay official knowledge of who won't return.
Dee and Andrew Foley have both commented in this thread only to cast doubt on conclusions drawn from 6 above. No casting doubts on any of the other logic presented in this thread. If what Phil Daigle said was explicitly true, players can transfer and keep their party from BGEE, why wouldn't the devs explicitly say that all BGEE NPCs were returning or choose to cast doubts on the other points mentioned?
Andrew Foley's comment may be telling:
"The idea we don't care for the BGEE-only NPCs is a serious mischaracterization of the reality."
Exactly what is this reality? The reality he referred to could be merely that they "do care" , but it could also refer to the reality that many BGEE NPCs aren't returning.
8. Exception for Rasaad
Because of Beamdog preference for Beamdog NPCs over Bioware ones, Rasaad will most likely return even though he isn't party of any canon starting party.
The following comment gives some credence to Rasaad's inclusion: The Devs during the Q&A session said that Dorn, Neera, and Rasaad were returning. Although this does not necessarily have to mean that Rasaad is a playable NPC, given the above, it's much more likely that he is playable instead of not.[/spoiler]
Please take Skie, Eldoth, Alora, Garrick, and Shar-Teel. I have little confidence those NPCs will get much playing time in SoD if any.
I'm tempted to split that a bit, cuz this party is absolutly dysfunctional
(Garrick has a conflict with Eldoth & Shar-Teel will kill him)
Is it Acceptable if I make 2 partys:
Group alignment CN Garrick, Alora, Shar, Quayle (for healing) +1 rotating
Group alignment TN Eldoth, Skie, Faldorn (heals), +2 rotating
Rotating means that I will temporarly take a npc for a couple of quests and then boot him/her
for another one, only the listed ones will stay permanently. Need to think of Charnames four those
groups tho. ^^
We'll probably be confirmed quickly as to which NPCs in SoD are playable. So please, get those parties started in preparation to suffer!
Below is a list I made on my opinion of the least likely to most likely to be included (granted that even the most likely ones on this list are still most very likely not to be included i SoD)
Least likely playable Bioware BGEE-only NPCs imo (in order of least likely) (none are likely, but if I had to choose...)
1. Skie
2. Eldoth
3. Faldorn
4. Shar-Teel
5. Garrick
6. Tiax
7. Alora
8. Montaron
9. Xzar
10. Coran
11. Branwen
12. Xan
13. Quayle
14. Ajantis
15. Kivan
16. Yeslick
17. Kagain
My logic that order was based on known disappearances (Skie), followed by SoD NPC redundant roles, followed by canon thief removals, followed by duplicate sample CHARNAME pictures, followed by remaining NPCs appearing in BG2, followed by the remaining NPCs. Whenever one part of an NPC pair was removed, the other part of the pair was removed as well.
How'd my prediction turn out? Looks like I was pretty spot on.