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[MOD] REPROCK (REdone PROficiency, Class and Kits) WIP

2

Comments

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    @Illustair
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    Awesome update. But no more Insight?:c that was one of the more interesting feats that would get the player thinking, whether he should invest for exp bonus and reap the benefits for later at the expense of getting stronger now.
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    I'll switch out the cold resistance. It will fit under the wisdom/charisma heading nicely.

    -------
    How will multiclass be handled with regards to feat cap?
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    M/C and D/C will just use their top class. So, if you Dual at 18, you don't have to worry. If you dual before that, then you have to wait til your second class is 18 to be grandmaster. I like that it makes single classes even stronger earlier.

    -------
    Edit: you have the same rate of APR for light and heavy weapons?
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    Have any suggestions? Maybe allow light weapons up to 4apr, medium up to 3.5apr and heavy up to 3? I like that. What other option were you thinking?

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    Also, under Leathality, isn't +7 a bit too overpowered?
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    Assassin gets up to x7 right now. If you look at the charts, no base class gets that high. Only assassins will be able to grand master lethality.

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    The 5th tier for Inspire IMO deserves a bit more than a mere +5% crit.
    ------
    Have any suggestions?

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Sadly, there doesn't seem a way to have light weapons have a different apr than other weapons. They all use the same wpsattck 2da, and unless I add a ton of ubderlying code determining what weapon you have, well, we are stuck with the current system.

  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 866
    Does that mean thieves won't naturally increase their backstab multiplier upon reaching certain levels but will have to place feat points instead? Oh wait, is that how this will work for all classes as well? Inasmuch as thieves won't get the backstab multiplier automatically, mages won't automatically increase their spell slots but will have to put points on Acumen also? And that Monks who can reach as much as 70% more or less in MR would now get a drastic nerfing especially considering their Tenacity is capped at 5? I don't quite get the effect on the classes.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    @Illustair That is what it means. Basically, almost everything gets wiped clean. Kits become alteration of classes. Thieves only get backstab multipliers if they invest in it. Assassins will be able to grandmaster it as well as put 1 more point into power or whatnot. Monks will get some magic resistance naturally, but much less, and then would need to invest points into MR. Of course, they don't have to and invest elsewhere, or other various combinations.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    I'm not sure if you want to absolutely scrub clean essential class feature (spell slots, thief skills, bard song) etc. and make people spend points on them. For example, if an optimized mage MUST always have maximum available "Magic" ability, then why not remove those points from their pool and just give them the magic ability. This system seems like it would be incredibly easy to gimp characters, only to realize halfway through that your character build is bad and you'll have to restart.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    @Aquadrizzt I agree completely, and the profs are supplementary in many regards. Basically, magic users will get like half the spells that they normally do. Now, they can take points in magic, and that will buff them up as magic users, but a kit can now put less in magic gaining abilities but more in weaponry, where you can customize it as a fighter/magic user. Certain abilities are going to be must takes, but you would have that in almost any situation. I am definitely open to suggestions. If I could give fighters the ability to cast level 1 Mage spells this way, it would be perfect.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Speakin of which, I guess I could, say, let a fighter take 1 point where they can cast Mage spells. This would give them an innate ability that allows them to choose from all available first level Mage spells. It's wonky, but feasible.

    This is really only an issue with class specific abilities. I believe there are just 6 or 7, especially since i will allow non-thieve to backstab even slightly. I do want to make a point that I have nothing that focuses only on one class. Acumen (I think that is the one) is the least usable as it affects only arcane caster. Devoutness and expertise focus on cleric spells and skills, but nothing focuses on just one class and nothing is going to gimp a character. Is assume you could play the entire game not taking any proficiencies.

    Illustair
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    What does anyone think about having Acumen (the wizard spell slot prof) and Devoutness (the priest spell slot prof) give non-casters an innate ability that gives them a small subset of priest or arcane spells. It seems sacrilegious, but how is it different than giving my Mage weapon profs or priest critical strike. If your fighter or thief want to invest in wizard and/or priest spells, why shouldn't they be able to? I always like more options than less.

    Grammarsalad
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Grammarsalad
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    edited July 2015
    That is an interesting compromise. I was debating making it even more overpowered as is allow them to select the spell on the spot. Food for thought. I'll check out your kit, but i always hate taking someone else's hard worked stuff, especially in a mod as good as yours.

    I also didn't want to give any active abilities from profs, just passive.

    Also, how about protection from wing buffet in mobility? Maybe with free-action at mobility 7? Too op? If not with free-action, should it go earlier or move free-action down?

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    wolpak
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    I am looking to remove Bulwark and Inspire and replace them with interesting alternatives. Bulwark gets the Axe mostly because it was "uninspired". Inspire gets the axe because it appears to be too much of a headache to code. I could do it, but the scripting would not be worth the effort. Here are my two replacements, and I'd love feedback, because I definitely am not sure how effective these will be.

    ENRAGE (Strength)
    1: 50% +1TH&DAM
    2: 50% +1TH&DAM&AC&MOVE
    3: 50% +2TH&DAM +1AC&MOVE
    4: 50% +2TH&DAM&AC&MOVE
    5: 25% +2TH&DAM&AC&MOVE 50% DR&MR
    6: 25% +3TH&DAM&AC&MOVE 50% DR&MR
    7: 25% +4TH&DAM&AC&MOVE 50% DR&MR

    Enrage will be a cast on condition ability. At 1 Pip and 50% HP, you will receive a +1 TH and Dam for 60 seconds. At 2 Pips, you get +1 AC and Movement. At 3, +2 to TH and Dam. At 4, +2 to AC and Move. At 5, you get a second Enrage at 25%, which adds in a 50% DR and MR. 6 Pips adds +1 to all bonuses and 7 adds another +1. Any and all suggestions would be excellent.

    MAGNETISM (Charisma)
    1: -1 SAVE SPELLS (6')
    2: -1 SAVE SPELLS (12')
    3: -1 SAVE SPELLS (18')
    4: -2 SAVE SPELLS (18')
    5: -2 SAVE SPELLS (24')
    6: -2 SAVE SPELLS (30')
    7: -3 SAVE SPELLS (30')

    Assuming I can get the aura to work for enemies properly, 1 Pip gives a -1 save to spells to all monsters within 6 feet. I am debating on making it all saving throws, which may be too strong. Any other suggestions would definitely be helpful. Remember, this Aura will be on all the time.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    Have you considered how you would be balancing creatures and items to make up for the vastly increased power level of characters?

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Of course I have considered how it will affect the game itself. There are a couple of concepts at play. First, there is a significant nerf inherently as now statistics do not give any benefit unless coupled with a corresponding proficiency. It evens out the bonus curve and you probably won't see the overall power until late single digit levels. Given the fact that there are plenty of mods that increase difficulty and whatnot, I am not that concerned that it will make the game a cakewalk.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    If anyone is interested, I have a spreadsheet of how the proficiencies will be laid out and I'd love another set of eyes on it for any suggestions. I'll give credit in the mod (if that matters to you), but it would just help out to have someone else put in their suggestions. Not too much work, but would help a lot.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Seems like nobody is interested, but I uploaded a zip file containing just one page of my spreadsheet which handles the prof distribution. It'd be great if anyone wanted to give their input and suggest any changes. Or just download it to see how crazy I am with info in spreadsheets (this is just 1 page of like 27, though most are just 2das).

    I have decided to split profs up among stats a little bit more and I put all 10 base classes on "equal" footing with 90 possible distributable points.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    edited July 2015
    There is interest. It's just that people are distracted my the upcoming release (or with their own mod projects, or rl, or some combination.)

    Make it, and they will download!

    Edit: at work, but I'll see if I can look at the spreadsheet on my phone

    Edit 2: my phone doesn't like zip files...

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    @Grammarsalad i uploaded just the spreadsheet. man, love being able to remote to my work desktop from my iphone :)

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    edited July 2015
    Maybe this was addressed, but the attribute requirements seem a bit high such that it doesn't seem like it'll matter for many if they have a 4 or 7 max. I know that there are ways to improve attributes in game, but it still seems like many will not be able to realize their maximum potential. This seems to go against what I like most about this idea: increased MAD. It's cool to have a mechanical reason to (eg) create a smart fighter.

    Precision seems like it should be intelligence and dexterity (makes me think of the scene in one of the Sherlock Holmes movie where SH planned his moves and took our the bigger fighter)

    Avoidance seems like it should be wisdom and dexterity (wisdom is generally connected with perception ie to "see it coming"). Of course, perhaps you were thinking of the expertise feat...hmmm I like giving monks an ac bonus for high wiz, but maybe that's better handled another way

    I like charisma alone for tenacity, but not prevention, which seems like either strength and constitution or intelligence (! Planning) and constitution.

    Mobility--it's running, yes?--should probably be strength and constitution I think.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    @Grammarsalad

    __________________
    Maybe this was addressed, but the attribute requirements seem a bit high such that it doesn't seem like it'll matter for many if they have a 4 or 7 max.
    __________________
    I made it high for a few reasons. One, it shouldn't be easy to be a Grand Master. Two, I am adding in a +1 stat point every 4(ish) levels, which will equate to 10 extra points by level 40. Three, I am going to convert all set attribute to this stat to something similar to IR by giving a +1, +2, +3, ect. Four, it allows you to be a specialist or a generalist. Lastly, I will be bumping up initial stats to help even out the curve.

    --------------
    Precision seems like it should be intelligence and dexterity (makes me think of the scene in one of the Sherlock Holmes movie where SH planned his moves and took our the bigger fighter)

    Avoidance seems like it should be wisdom and dexterity (wisdom is generally connected with perception ie to "see it coming"). Of course, perhaps you were thinking of the expertise feat...hmmm I like giving monks an ac bonus for high wiz, but maybe that's better handled another way
    --------------
    I agree with this in concept, but not sure how well it will play out in the game. Given the need for avoidance (which is really a Dex AC replacement), making it depend on Wisdom seems very detrimental for classes that need it. Maybe it benefits Monks and Rangers, but really hampers Thieves, Barbarians and Bards.

    ________________
    I like charisma alone for tenacity, but not prevention, which seems like either strength and constitution or intelligence (! Planning) and constitution.
    __________________
    Charisma alone for tenacity would work, except I'd have to switch it with a CHR only prof like Magnetism (probably not) or Obstinacy. I could make Obstinacy Chr + Wis, but then I have Wisdom as a controller for 2 different profs that a) give immunities and b) lower saving throws. I wanted to keep Immunization (Con), Willpower (Wisdom) and Obstinacy (Charisma) all on their own stats to keep from being overpowered unless you invest heavily into them.

    ----------------
    Mobility--it's running, yes?--should probably be strength and constitution I think.
    ---------------
    Mobility was tough.

    Here is it's progression chart:
    MOVEMENT
    1 +1AS
    2
    Imm Slow +2AS
    3
    Imm Backstab +3AS
    4
    Free-Action (prot Wing Buffet??)

    Movement I am saying is constitution based. Sure, there are elements of dexterity, but I can't have everything as dexterity. The immune to slow, backstab and free action I may be stretching it, but attributing them to intelligence.

    Really, my goal is balance. I want to do it as smart as possible. I should have probably added this spreadsheet, where I laid out how everything looks.

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    @Grammarsalad Ok, so I did the following change, and I think I like it.

    Before:
    DEX + INT
    Avoidance

    DEX + CHR
    Lethality (a slight problem for Assassins)

    CON + WIS
    Tolerance

    Now:
    DEX + INT
    Leathality (better for Assassins with backstab multiplier)

    DEX + WIS
    Avoidance (beneficial to monks and rangers, theives and bards will have to deal)

    CON + CHR
    Tolerance (heartiness and a good sense of humor to deal with extreme heat, works VERY well for Dragon Disciples)

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    I like the change as well

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Just to continue with the alterations, I will give certain kits the ability to ignore stat requirements (or use different ones) for certain proficiencies if they are key to the kit. Here are the list I have come up with thus far:

    Kensai:
    Avoidance DEX + WIS

    Wizard Slayer:
    Tenacity WIS + CHR

    Swashbuckler:
    Uses DEX instead of STR for all proficiencies that reuqire STR

    Shadowdancer:
    Mobility CON + INT

    Undead Hunter:
    Willpower WIS

    Cavalier:
    Immunization CON

    Beastmaster:
    Prevention STR + CHR

    Jester:
    Avoidance DEX + WIS

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    edited July 2015
    I like that. The jester should definitely have avoidance depend at least partially on charisma (distraction)

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Sorcerers will use charisma instead of intelligence for acumen.

    Grammarsalad
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Updated the first page (how much longer will it go before I need to make a new post). Made things look a little nicer with spoiler tags and updated the kits section.

    Berserkers become more like bloodletters where their rage costs them HPs per second, but at an increase of abilities. It will be toggleable. It also creates synergy with the Enrage ability.

    Wizard Slayers no longer cause miscast when hit, but rather casting time is increased for enemies when they are close.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,577
    edited August 2015
    wolpak said:

    Updated the first page (how much longer will it go before I need to make a new post). Made things look a little nicer with spoiler tags and updated the kits section.

    Berserkers become more like bloodletters where their rage costs them HPs per second, but at an increase of abilities. It will be toggleable. It also creates synergy with the Enrage ability.

    Wizard Slayers no longer cause miscast when hit, but rather casting time is increased for enemies when they are close.

    Rage costs hp....hmmm, what if it's temporary damage?

    Edit: ie "stunning"damage, so it can't kill them?

    wolpak
  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    Yeah, def stunning damage, I'll see if I can figure out how to autoshut it off. Well, maybe it should matter, like, if I have 1 hp, I may as well berserk til someone touches me.

    Bye, I'll rename it berserk, you know, cause they are berserkers and all. Definitely an interesting tree for them, do they go power, critical or fortitude for more hp? Who knows? Certainly not me!

    GrammarsaladIllustair
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 866
    edited August 2015
    Can this be made compatible with doc's no "+" items and spell battle system (cantrips, metamagic, etc.)? Those are the stuff I find most interesting in his mod. If only you two can collaborate to make an entire overhaul, "feats" system, classes, items, and all others. I also love Aquadrizzt's universal weapon applicability and arcane casting, and Grammarsalad's arcane crafting. Much like how modders in the past collaborate

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    edited August 2015
    @Illustair Certain things will be compatible. Assuming doc and others give the ok, I can massage the parts that don't.

    Primarily, anything that has anything to do with proficiencies will not work. That is obvious. Also, I'll be adjusting certain kits, so, if changes overlap there, then obviously that won't work. Anything that adjusts stats will not work since I'll be wiping them clean. I will be significantly altering weapons, so that may be an issue, but everyone will be able to wield any weapon. Weapon categories will play a big role on how weapons are handled.

    On another note, I have about half the proficiencies implemented. Still need some testing as I have to make sure I can remove immunities if needed.

    Illustair
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