With help, finally finished my Ultimate / Best Baldur's Gate BG 1 Party / Team / Group.
Alchemy413
Member Posts: 52
I was thinking 1. PC 2. Baeloth 3. Edwin 4. Coran 5. Dorn for the best
Then further removed 6. Yeslick 7. Kaigan 8. Xzar 9. Neera
Even further removed 10. Shar-Teel
The first 5 need a cleric and one more thief so Kaigan and Neera are gone.
That leaves me with Yeslick, Xzar, and Shar-Teel. But if I add Xzar... Team becomes unbalanced so I would need to get rid of Baeloth or edwin... Not a good idea.
So I am left with Yeslick and Shar-Teel. Whoever I choose for the final member will decide what the PC character will be--Fighter/Cleric or Fighter/Thief.
But then I played it and figured that Elf archer was better because range is just too good. Tanking was not used enough in my play through the game.
It looks like I came to this conclusion easy but I actually went through a lot of forums and math using cheat cheats for BG1.... Sooo much math... Than finally had help from the people of this forum where I did even more math... headache.
The better of the two combos turns out, to my surprise, after doing all the laborious math... Is the Yeslick/PC Fighter Thief Combo. It took me a month to come to this conclusion...
I have looked further into it... And finally decided that Fighter/Mage is even better than Fighter/thief in BG1.. The Stone skin spell added in the new Neera quest kinda unbalances the game in my favor. It is great with a dual fighter/mage. Because I changed to having a fighter/mage for the PC, I replaced Edwin with Kivan--the next best ranged after Kaigan whom I cannot have because of Yeslick. Although, using bows has more versatility than throwing axes and can be more powerful with arrows of detonation plus Kivan can eventually use the grasping vines spell.
I replaced Edwin because I don't like sharing Scrolls and don't need his mass of spells when I already have so many spells with Bealoth and the PC that I have too many spells left over after any hard boss battles(not really hard). Just one click of the rest button gets them all back as if I never used them.. There is no repercussions to time in this game or sleeping too much. unless you have a character who needs you to do something. Also, having too many spell casters kinda leaves me open. I had played through with five spell casters and lost out on the defense.. Archery adds a lot of disruption to help give time for spell casters... Further, greater ranged attacker ratio to spell casters is more efficient.
If One decides to go melee, the best melee that can equal range is Dual wielding drizzts scimitars. I will be using all 8 my specialty points to get grand mastery in scimitars (Twinkle & icingdeath) and mastery in dual wielding. So the disadvantage from Berserker fighters does not apply to me. Or you can go range... In BG1 range>melee.
After all the help from others, forums, math, math, math, cheats, and hard work, this is my finalized team:
1. PC Human Fighter/Mage ranged or Berserker/Mage dual Scimitars, either is fine; I go range because in Bg1 Range>melee.
2. Yeslick
3. Dorn
4. Coran
5. Baeloth
6. Kivan
And a further seventh would be Kivan If I wanted to put him in place of Edwin or Baeloth.
In regular battles Kivan is slightly better than Dorn... But regular battles are too easy it doesn't matter. In boss battles Dorns Poison weapons tips the scale in his favor by a good amount but that isn't what really makes him better... Aura of Despair causes the whole group too do more damage in boss battles including Dorn and he is better in close combat. Kivan is not better than coran damage wise and I need the thief abilities of coran. If I was to put kivan in he would take the place of one of the spell casters. But I am unsure if that is a smart idea since my range dps is already crazy having two spell casters to slow down, befuddle, and hurt the enemies while the archer disrupt and pick them off one by one.
With just Coran I can do everything I need with thief skills except, pickpocket... But I can always pick up alora later in the game and just do a pickpocket running spree all over the sword coast till I hav pickocketed everyone then dump her ad coran and continue the game that no longer needs pick pocket. So I don't need Alora. Her dps is way to low in comparison... It is a BIG difference. It is just not worth having her if I have all i need except pickpocket which I can still do with Coran because he has a good amount in it anyway. I just need to do a lot of saving and reloading for the npcs that can only be pick pocketed at a certain point in game(Not many and not many are worth it).
Also, in the stages that i don't have all the npcs I want... I bring along the monk Rasaad and the Wild Mage Neera and the thief i start with in the beginning Imoen... with those two I have all i need to identify and thief skills. I race to chapter 4 and do only the quests that can be missed or that are need to progress the story.. It actually doesn't take long and is quite easy while also taking care of the requirements for Rasaads and neeras special quests. It took me around only 3-4 hours. And I still have a huge chunk of the game i skipped in the earlier chapters just waiting to be done.
I agree that Kaigan and Kivan are both equal with Kaigan being a little better than Kivan though.... But again I lose out on damage because of having another cleric.. It is in this that I chose Yeslick over Kaigan... I also am able to keep out DUHM and will probably only need to cast 2 of them during the acletec. or maybe even one if I kill fast enough. but they don't just fight for the gauntlets... U can not have them together in the same group. They will kill each other.
1.) if Kaigan is only sightly better than yeslick as tank and damge dealer
2.) Kivan or Dorn or another is more than double the damage than Viconia and more tanky by ALOT than Viconia.
3.) yeslick/ other member > Kaigan/Viconia
Kaigan and Viconia combo only get 2 more spells and have around same over all defense... But the damage pales by a huge margin.
Yeslick/other for the win.
I am aware that there is probably no one best end game team; there are a few. And I am aware that having both good and evil, i will need to manage my reputation by saving chests equal to the amount of reputation increasing quests. I will steal from these chests so I can tell the guard to screw off when he asks for my money, then run out of the zone to another zone, and rest a couple. I know it will be a hassle and time consuming but I love this team. I also understand that some evil and good npc's will fight each other to the death, but I found that this group of npc's will not kill each other.
This team has basically two or more of the best of everything except Kaigans tanking (not needed when everyone dies too fast and Yeslick and my character are actually a little better with DUHM and ultimately overall deal more damage without Kaigan in the team) and a second cleric (not really needed in BG1 especially when extra dps just makes enemies who already die way too quickly with this group--Kinda cheesy really--die even faster).
I am also very much Taoist and Buddhist (if you saw the Chinese movie, Journey to the west, where the Buddhist monk travels with some very unlikely allies of awesomeness) furthermore, I love having a team where I try to make different alignments coexist together. I am neutral alignment and will utilize both to bring balance and harmony to the world.
This team is strictly for BG1 and not made to transfer to BG2. I will be playing the game again. The second time through, I will be teaching the PC all the tomes for a plus 8 buff to add into BG2. I will be creating a different character Class for the PC that is based around what I will need in BG2. I also wont really care much about who is on my team. I will just be acquiring the best stuff (pantaloons) and completing the extra npc quests to transfer to BG2 for 100% completion in BG2.
One further thing, I found that Kaigan and Yeslick can be in the party at the same time if the leaders charisma is high. But even though this is possible they still fight over the dex gloves and even more importantly the strength belt. In many tests fighting against Aecletec, the team that has both Kaigan and Yeslick is not as efficient or as fast at killing Aecletec. Because Yeslick is vital to have in the team, sadly, there is no room for Kaigan.
I am new to Forums and am not computer or technology savvy. Furthermore, If I have done anything wrong please inform me.
Thank you very much for your time and understanding.
Special thanks for the creation of my team goes to:
Artemius_I, Deltago, FinneousPJ, Thelovebat, and Wowo.
Thank you all for being so kind and generous! You guys truly are masters of Baldur's Gate!
Then further removed 6. Yeslick 7. Kaigan 8. Xzar 9. Neera
Even further removed 10. Shar-Teel
The first 5 need a cleric and one more thief so Kaigan and Neera are gone.
That leaves me with Yeslick, Xzar, and Shar-Teel. But if I add Xzar... Team becomes unbalanced so I would need to get rid of Baeloth or edwin... Not a good idea.
So I am left with Yeslick and Shar-Teel. Whoever I choose for the final member will decide what the PC character will be--Fighter/Cleric or Fighter/Thief.
But then I played it and figured that Elf archer was better because range is just too good. Tanking was not used enough in my play through the game.
It looks like I came to this conclusion easy but I actually went through a lot of forums and math using cheat cheats for BG1.... Sooo much math... Than finally had help from the people of this forum where I did even more math... headache.
The better of the two combos turns out, to my surprise, after doing all the laborious math... Is the Yeslick/PC Fighter Thief Combo. It took me a month to come to this conclusion...
I have looked further into it... And finally decided that Fighter/Mage is even better than Fighter/thief in BG1.. The Stone skin spell added in the new Neera quest kinda unbalances the game in my favor. It is great with a dual fighter/mage. Because I changed to having a fighter/mage for the PC, I replaced Edwin with Kivan--the next best ranged after Kaigan whom I cannot have because of Yeslick. Although, using bows has more versatility than throwing axes and can be more powerful with arrows of detonation plus Kivan can eventually use the grasping vines spell.
I replaced Edwin because I don't like sharing Scrolls and don't need his mass of spells when I already have so many spells with Bealoth and the PC that I have too many spells left over after any hard boss battles(not really hard). Just one click of the rest button gets them all back as if I never used them.. There is no repercussions to time in this game or sleeping too much. unless you have a character who needs you to do something. Also, having too many spell casters kinda leaves me open. I had played through with five spell casters and lost out on the defense.. Archery adds a lot of disruption to help give time for spell casters... Further, greater ranged attacker ratio to spell casters is more efficient.
If One decides to go melee, the best melee that can equal range is Dual wielding drizzts scimitars. I will be using all 8 my specialty points to get grand mastery in scimitars (Twinkle & icingdeath) and mastery in dual wielding. So the disadvantage from Berserker fighters does not apply to me. Or you can go range... In BG1 range>melee.
After all the help from others, forums, math, math, math, cheats, and hard work, this is my finalized team:
1. PC Human Fighter/Mage ranged or Berserker/Mage dual Scimitars, either is fine; I go range because in Bg1 Range>melee.
2. Yeslick
3. Dorn
4. Coran
5. Baeloth
6. Kivan
And a further seventh would be Kivan If I wanted to put him in place of Edwin or Baeloth.
In regular battles Kivan is slightly better than Dorn... But regular battles are too easy it doesn't matter. In boss battles Dorns Poison weapons tips the scale in his favor by a good amount but that isn't what really makes him better... Aura of Despair causes the whole group too do more damage in boss battles including Dorn and he is better in close combat. Kivan is not better than coran damage wise and I need the thief abilities of coran. If I was to put kivan in he would take the place of one of the spell casters. But I am unsure if that is a smart idea since my range dps is already crazy having two spell casters to slow down, befuddle, and hurt the enemies while the archer disrupt and pick them off one by one.
With just Coran I can do everything I need with thief skills except, pickpocket... But I can always pick up alora later in the game and just do a pickpocket running spree all over the sword coast till I hav pickocketed everyone then dump her ad coran and continue the game that no longer needs pick pocket. So I don't need Alora. Her dps is way to low in comparison... It is a BIG difference. It is just not worth having her if I have all i need except pickpocket which I can still do with Coran because he has a good amount in it anyway. I just need to do a lot of saving and reloading for the npcs that can only be pick pocketed at a certain point in game(Not many and not many are worth it).
Also, in the stages that i don't have all the npcs I want... I bring along the monk Rasaad and the Wild Mage Neera and the thief i start with in the beginning Imoen... with those two I have all i need to identify and thief skills. I race to chapter 4 and do only the quests that can be missed or that are need to progress the story.. It actually doesn't take long and is quite easy while also taking care of the requirements for Rasaads and neeras special quests. It took me around only 3-4 hours. And I still have a huge chunk of the game i skipped in the earlier chapters just waiting to be done.
I agree that Kaigan and Kivan are both equal with Kaigan being a little better than Kivan though.... But again I lose out on damage because of having another cleric.. It is in this that I chose Yeslick over Kaigan... I also am able to keep out DUHM and will probably only need to cast 2 of them during the acletec. or maybe even one if I kill fast enough. but they don't just fight for the gauntlets... U can not have them together in the same group. They will kill each other.
1.) if Kaigan is only sightly better than yeslick as tank and damge dealer
2.) Kivan or Dorn or another is more than double the damage than Viconia and more tanky by ALOT than Viconia.
3.) yeslick/ other member > Kaigan/Viconia
Kaigan and Viconia combo only get 2 more spells and have around same over all defense... But the damage pales by a huge margin.
Yeslick/other for the win.
I am aware that there is probably no one best end game team; there are a few. And I am aware that having both good and evil, i will need to manage my reputation by saving chests equal to the amount of reputation increasing quests. I will steal from these chests so I can tell the guard to screw off when he asks for my money, then run out of the zone to another zone, and rest a couple. I know it will be a hassle and time consuming but I love this team. I also understand that some evil and good npc's will fight each other to the death, but I found that this group of npc's will not kill each other.
This team has basically two or more of the best of everything except Kaigans tanking (not needed when everyone dies too fast and Yeslick and my character are actually a little better with DUHM and ultimately overall deal more damage without Kaigan in the team) and a second cleric (not really needed in BG1 especially when extra dps just makes enemies who already die way too quickly with this group--Kinda cheesy really--die even faster).
I am also very much Taoist and Buddhist (if you saw the Chinese movie, Journey to the west, where the Buddhist monk travels with some very unlikely allies of awesomeness) furthermore, I love having a team where I try to make different alignments coexist together. I am neutral alignment and will utilize both to bring balance and harmony to the world.
This team is strictly for BG1 and not made to transfer to BG2. I will be playing the game again. The second time through, I will be teaching the PC all the tomes for a plus 8 buff to add into BG2. I will be creating a different character Class for the PC that is based around what I will need in BG2. I also wont really care much about who is on my team. I will just be acquiring the best stuff (pantaloons) and completing the extra npc quests to transfer to BG2 for 100% completion in BG2.
One further thing, I found that Kaigan and Yeslick can be in the party at the same time if the leaders charisma is high. But even though this is possible they still fight over the dex gloves and even more importantly the strength belt. In many tests fighting against Aecletec, the team that has both Kaigan and Yeslick is not as efficient or as fast at killing Aecletec. Because Yeslick is vital to have in the team, sadly, there is no room for Kaigan.
I am new to Forums and am not computer or technology savvy. Furthermore, If I have done anything wrong please inform me.
Thank you very much for your time and understanding.
Special thanks for the creation of my team goes to:
Artemius_I, Deltago, FinneousPJ, Thelovebat, and Wowo.
Thank you all for being so kind and generous! You guys truly are masters of Baldur's Gate!
Post edited by Alchemy413 on
1
Comments
Depending on what multi-class you make your cleric you'll play differently.
Fighter/clerics and ranger/clerics both are self-buffing frontline fighters that use spells to make up for having worse fighting stats than straight fighters. They are strong from the very start and very fun to play. Dwarf fighter/clerics are top tier tanks, while Half-orcs have massive damage potential.
Cleric/mage is arguably the most useful because of versatility - very weak early on due to slow leveling, but they have more spells available than any other class, so you'll have a ton of options for every battle. Gnomes are probably the best for this class because they get to be a specialist (Illusionist), and the only other option available is half-elves.
Cleric/thieves are weird, but still fun. Only clubs and quarterstaves can backstab, so I recommend using those. Sanctuary is a great spell for a thief, though, because it works like invisibility but isn't broken by opening containers and stuff. This one is not recommended unless you already know the game well.
Having both good and evil party members is a bad idea unless you use mods because evil NPCs leave your party at high reputation (18 or above) and vice versa for good NPCs. You can balance reputation, but usually lowering reputation consistently requires you to kill innocents which has consequences.
If you're evil, Baeloth and Dorn are arguably the best of their class, and my recommendations for rounding out your party are Kagain, Xzar, and Montaron. Alternatively, you can take Edwin instead of Xzar for a better mage and for your thief, get Shar-Teel and dual-class her into a thief.
For a good party, you have more options because neutral NPCs only leave at low reputation, not high. The strongest good party IMO would be: Imoen, Kivan, Ajantis, Minsc and Dynaheir (the only good pure mage). You can replace the last two (they come in a pair) with Coran and Neera.
For good parties, Yeslick is actually pretty good you'll just have to have another Cleric or Jaheira as a Fighter/Druid to hold you over until you get him. His weapon proficiencies are great for what you want in a Cleric, his stats are pretty good, he gets an awesome version of Dispel Magic as a special ability which is even better than what an Inquisitor kit does, and he's the sort of healer spellcaster who doesn't die easily which is a good thing. He also gets to use warrior & cleric type equipment to help him out, or a piece of equipment which can improve his lackluster dexterity. His banter can be pretty interesting too.
I can understand skipping over Branwen if she doesn't appeal to you as a Cleric (as well as the requirements for getting her in your party), but she's the one Cleric you can get who doesn't care about what reputation you have being Neutral so there's that. I could be wrong about if she'll leave your party for a certain reputation, but you'd have to have it amazingly low I think like a 3 or 4 reputation. Evil aligned parties still function well when rep is above those numbers anyway and some quests are better if you don't take the evil route. To my knowledge she should function well with any sort of party.
For good aligned NPCs, generally they can be fit for a good ranged/physical party with Coran, Kivan, Minsc, Ajantis, Imoen, and NPCs like that. If you can use a trick in an inn to not have Dynaheir in the party it gives you can extra slot for someone else you might want, though as a specialist mage Dynaheir is still really good. In the original Baldur's Gate there was a few useful defensive spells she didn't get access to but I think that may have changed with the Enhanced Edition so you can keep her alive better. Having Ajantis who's great for good aligned parties as a Paladin and party leader, and Yeslick as a Fighter/Cleric means you have plenty of beef and damage potential in your party, as well as adequate healing and spellcasting you'll need to deal with tough opponents down the road.
For evil aligned NPCs, Kagain, Viconia, Dorn, Shar-Teel, and Edwin are all great choices and essentially would be a great party with your player character no matter what class you went with. You already have a few up front fighters who can wreak havoc, a few spellcasters with stats and abilities that are great for them, and a bit of ranged ability when needed with their weapon skills and spellcasting. When you can get him, Baeloth makes a nice addition who could replace Shar-Teel (you need to meet a minimum level and Chapter requirement to have access to him). Xar and Montaron aren't a bad combo either if you don't mind the fact a pair takes away an extra party slot when you probably only need Montaron as a Thief. There are a few neutral aligned NPCs who could fill in gaps for your party, whether with Thieving stuff or spellcasting. However most of the neutral aligned NPCs pale in comparison with the good or evil aligned NPCs. Neera and Garrick are decent enough and can be found fairly early, and Neera's questline can offer some nice equipment.
It's preferred if you have an evil aligned party that you have a non-evil Thief to hold you over, unless you either
1. Dual class Shar-Teel to a Thief when she gets to a Fighter level you're okay with.
2. Use an inn trick to get Montaron but not Xar in your party.
3. Have enough patience to find a neutral aligned Thief (you'll either have to rush to get one or wait until you have access to Baldur's Gate).
4. Keep your repuation high enough to have Imoen in the party.
5. Go without a Thief and use your Fighters to tank trap damage like Kagain. Kagain has health regeneration with his 20 constitution. Dorn's 19 strength can still bash open a fair number of locks in place of lockpicking, Edwin can also learn a spell to open locks for you that Dorn can't force open.
The wild card among all NPCs for any sort of party is Quayle. If you have enough patience to take him in your party later, he can cast quite a few spells for you as a Cleric/Illusionist and doesn't care if you're good or evil aligned. The bad news is you have to wait a long time before you can get him, and some of his stats and proficiencies aren't all that ideal (he's essentially reduced to spellcasting and won't help much elsewhere). By the time you can get him you'll also probably be so comfy in your party setup with how you've developed your group that you'll likely just not want him, as an evil aligned group will already have a Mage and a Cleric in the party I'm sure and good parties would already have access to better developed spellcasters.
So I will still stay stubborn to having a neutral team. Neither evil or good but both.
I still am wondering what is the best five to have from the 6 I have chosen.
Ty for the help on the cleric combinations; it was very helpful
However, I wouldn't recommend balancing reputation in such a way if you're still new enough to the game to ask advice on NPCs and player character builds. A few wrong steps and you can seriously gimp yourself or have a whole town turn against you which isn't good. It's best to either go consistently good since it's easy to raise your rep and you'll get more favorable shop prices, consistently evil cus being a jerk and lowering your rep that way is much preferred to killing random people or risking killing or being killed by guards, or consistently neutral since lowering your rep by large amounts at a time generally requires you to kill innocent people and balancing rep by quests/dialogue is better for that.
One thing to take note of is that there isn't really a 'perfect' endgame team, especially considering that mixing good and evil NPCs usually doesn't mix. Plus the good aligned NPCs and evil aligned NPCs form good parties together as is, the only weakness being you'll have to go through a few hoops to have a Thief for an evil aligned party. Some NPCs may not even like each other to the point they'd fight/kill each other, so having an NPC get killed like that can hurt your party until you get what you consider your 'ideal' team going. Every party will have strengths and weaknesses, your player character will basically either help shore up any weaknesses you find in a party setup or help magnify the strengths you see in a combination of NPCs in the party, occasionally it can be a mix of both.
One thing I'll mention is that when in doubt, you can't go wrong with your character being a Fighter class of some kind or an Archer kit. A Dwarven Defender kit can be quite good and durable in both the early game and later stages, and the two weapons they can become really skilled in have some good options in BG1. Archers essentially are killing machines if they're an Elf and skilled with bows, as you'll have other NPCs to fight in front of you and cast spells. Those are the easiest ones to roll with without complicating it. Just remember that Paladins and Rangers can't dip below a certain reputation for a player character or they lose their special class abilities.
Another small thing is that Ajantis and Dorn being Paladins with great Charisma make the best party leaders for good or evil parties respectively, just never have them in the same party together.
I am aware of that part about that there is not really a best end game team... I was just looking for my original questions answered by giving insight on the characters I happen to like. And maybe even going further on what of the six I chose would go well with an certain cleric combination... So far I have received great advice from Artemis on what are some ups and downs to a good cleric combination and race. I will be utilizing his or her info when I create my new character.
Shar-Teel is great but the area you find her in is extremely dangerous and instant death attacks automatically end the game if your PC gets hit. So rushing to get her would be difficult as well as having to fight her to get her in.
I'd pick up Kagain when you get in Beregost and drop Khalid/Jaheira. Then when you get to Nashkel pick up Edwin and drop Ajantis since you'll want to get Dorn coming up soon. After that you should have a decent idea of how you want to play things since you'll have access to a fair number of NPCs at that point.
Are you heavy on the spell casting or do you just go toe to thaving ask because that would determine which NPC gets left behind.
Dorn is your tank
Imoen is your thief
With the NPCs you chosen, they are locked.
Now if you go toe to toe and are conservative with your spell casting, you will only need either Baeloth or Edwin. That hen opens the door to the whole Sorcerer vs Mage deal. So run with Edwin till your reach where Ballots is and determine if micromanaging spell slots works for you. If not, drop Edwin and roll with goog ol' bae.
If you are more of a spell Slinger having both of them in your party is ideal. Having three archers (plus immy) is over kill with a mage heavy party. Coran vs K ivan is another huge can of worms debate. I personally would run with Kivan as he can easily slide into the second tank role when needed and you get him earlier (I know you said you didn't care, but it is still a factor).
As your main, it all depends on your playing style. I prefer cleric/thieves as having a compliment thief allows you to min/max Imoen's skill, while you focus on one for yourself. half-orc for 19 strength makes for some explosive backstabs with a quarterstaff or club.
A fighter/cleric is more melee driven as explained above and a regular cleric, when used properly, can be any teams utility belt.
If you are heavy in the spell slinging, a mage/cleric can become quite powerful, however tends to be squishy early on.
The one combo that hasn't been brought up yet is the Fighter/Mage/Cleric combo, which from what I understand can only be done with the Half-Elf race (they get all but one multiclass combo). I've never tried it before, but I think it'd be a better option than what a Cleric/Thief would offer if you'd like to try something new. The big limiting factor is you couldn't wear armor while casting mage spells and losing access to using bows from being a Cleric, but in terms of overall potential you'd have access to the widest array of buffing spells all with the same character having access to both Mage and Cleric spells.
So if you could acquire good robes or armor that'd go well with that class combo, later on they could be very good but early on they'd be weak cus of the slow level progression, access to a limited number of weapons, and not being able to cast mage spells while wearing armor. Being of the slower level progression you also won't get the same sort of casting abilities a different multiclass like Fighter/Cleric or Mage/Cleric would get. If you knew what you were doing it could be a potentially nice class later on after developing them and getting the best equipment for them, but it would take time for them to reach their potential and fill those roles cus slings are the one ranged weapon you could have them use.
The Cleric/Thief can still be decent especially if you're a Half-Orc with the great bonus of 19 strength (the strength bonus ends up being a bit better than having the ability to specialize in a weapon). However it's not the class you want for backstabbing cus your weapon selection for that is limited and Clubs aren't all that great of a weapon. One advantage you have though is there are a few armors in the game which allow you to use Thieving abilities while wearing them and are very good, so that can go well with being a Thief/Cleric since Clerics aren't limited in spellcasting by wearing armor. You won't be a backstabbing Thief really but the high strength could benefit you well in other ways like pure damage bonuses and awesome carrying capacity (as well as wearing any armor you want).
Again, thank you so much for your time, patients, support, and help.
You guys are really cool for doing this charity.
And thank you sooooo much for answering both of my questions.
Dorn tanking
Imoen
Kivan
Coran
Edwin/Baeloth depending on your preference of spellcasting management.
With the above team, I would play as a cleric/mage since I like having a second caster in the party. It can specialize in conjuring for the added meat shields.
Which one is better for range Claric/Ranger or Fighter/Cleric?
I like how having Cleirc/thief there is potential for having a good 3 backstabbers and all three being good in range. plus all the thiefs skills I could ever want.
I alos love how Cleric/mage can give me so much casting power with Baeloth and Edwin... Amazing.
It is soooo hard to choose...
Since Coran is a Fighter type more than Imoen and is good at using Long Swords, I'd give him stealth skills for backstabbing more than for Imoen. In fact, I'd probably recommend dual classing Imoen to a Mage when she hits level 6 or so since that'll be all the thieving skill points she'd need for her thieving skills and by then Coran should be around to pick up the slack until she gets her old abilities back. With that combo you'd have two Mage casters in your party without needing both Edwin and Baeloth to be in your party and all your thieving abilities would be covered including pick pocket for the occasional situation.
As for your own class, I would either highly recommend a Fighter/Cleric multiclass or a Ranger dual classed to Cleric. A Cleric/Illusionist as a Gnome could be great too, but if you have either Edwin or Baeloth for spellcasting, Imoen as a dual class Mage possibility, and Dorn as your best frontliner (his 14 Constitution doesn't net him any hit point bonuses), then it makes sense for you to have a character to supplement Dorn on the front lines while providing some spellcasting as well. If you want multiple casters in your party (in the long run), Imoen is a fine dual class choice and makes sense because thieving skills only need to be at a certain skill level for your needs.
I think around level 3 when you get that extra proficiency point is probably best for dual classing a Ranger into a Cleric, since technically you can dual class at level 2 and get access to the Druid spells in the spellbook and without much effort, but that extra skill point could be used to max out your two-weapon style allowing you to dual wield nice blunt weapons when you get to level 4 as a Cleric and get your Ranger skills back. As a Cleric you could always start off with skill in Slings and a blunt weapon you didn't choose as a Ranger, since your skill points don't stack when you get your old abilities back. You'd have 7 skill points from being a Ranger at level 3 plus 2 more skill points from your Cleric levels, so it works out fairly well combined with the Cleric spells doing a nice job buffing up your character for melee combat. And unlike a Cleric/Thief, you could be dual wielding instead of using a weapon and a shield or a staff. The Ranger also gets the benefit of the Fighter strength table with 18/xx Strength, so not getting 19 Strength to start like a Half-Orc would doesn't hurt so much when you can dual wield and get spellbook benefits. Just make sure you don't play any of the Ranger kits for a dual class, as they don't mesh at all with dual classing into a Cleric (you'll be a melee character and none of the kits get to wear great armor and/or have the skills you want).
Fighter/Cleric fits a similar purpose as the Ranger to Cleric dual class, you'll be a melee focused character who uses buffing spells to increase their combat abilities as well as that of the party's in general. Since a number of your party members would focus on physical attacks having a number of support spells ready in your spellbook as well as buffing spells for yourself are probably best, rather than having healing spells on hand (a better offense will take down enemies faster). The difference being your Fighter levels won't stop increasing so you'll get better benefits in terms of overall hit points and having a higher constitution, but you won't have access to the Druid part of the spellbook, won't have as many early game proficiency points to work with, and later on won't get the same sort of high level spells the dual classed Cleric gets. The advantages of the multiclass are that you'll constantly be developing in each so your fighting abilities will always be developing at a consistent rate as well as your THACO, you'll have more hit points in the long run from your fighter levels, and you won't have the waiting period of getting your old abilities back in the first game that would happen with the dual class.
Because having a Ranger level 3 or so still counts as a warrior class, you'd still have access to Ranger or warrior specific equipment which is nice to have. And your melee weapon options for either class combo mentioned are still pretty good as blunt weapons don't generally deal as much maximum damage as that of Swords and such, but few armors and enemies get AC bonuses or damage resistance against blunt weapons, and Skeletons also melt against blunt weapons. War Hammers, Maces, and Flails also get that base +1 boost to damage which means your minimum damage output, and your chance to hit (being blunt damage type) will be pretty good compared to slashing weapons.
Obviously you'd need to be a Human to dual class, and for your stats you'll obviously want an 18 strength and high combat stats for Dexterity and Constitution. You will however need your Wisdom to be at least 17 to dual class into a Cleric so you'll need a good stat roll at character creation for the dual class. You'll need a minimum 15 Strength and 15 Constitution as well for the dual class. Any combo of Mace, War Hammer, and Flail/Morning Star is a viable dual wielding combo.
Half-Orc would probably work best for a Fighter/Cleric, as the high 19 Strength alone is worth it and there are buffing spells which can raise it even higher for massive damage output. It's a preference between wanting that extra high Strength of the Half-Orc or wanting the nice saving throw bonuses of the Dwarf at the cost of some Dexterity and Charisma. I'd also dual wield with the Fighter/Cleric as well, since a 19 or 18/xx Strength benefits more when wielding two weapons compared to one and a shield (killing your opponents faster generally does better than a few extra AC points with the shield). Your only two handed option for weapons is a Staff anyway so picking a weapon to dual wield at the start probably works best, then when leveling up picking a secondary weapon to dual wield with the first weapon. You could also put points into slings if you wanted but with Kivan, Coran, and Imoen in the party you already having several party members plucking at the enemy with arrows and all 3 have a high Dexterity for plucking away with ranged weapons. Same as before with the dual class, you'll probably want to be using spell slots for buffing spells and party benefits and less focused on healing.
Occasionally with either the multi or dual class, you'll need to be the party member to remove poison from characters, so later on having a use or two of that in your spellbook could help a lot more than a cure wounds spell. Alternatively you could spend money on Antidote potions at temples and stockpile those so your spell slots are opened up for other things.
The final thing I'd recommend is getting all of your ideal party members as soon as you can, as you don't want them to auto-level up with you as they generally lose potential hit points that way and can put skill proficiencies into things you don't want. Developing them the way you want for the party is best, aside from Baeloth who can't be acquired until later and auto starts at level 6 I think. If playing with the core rules and you either permanently lose a party member or need to switch out someone for some reason, I'd go with Kagain as the replacement party member if it's not replacing Edwin/Baeloth as a spellcaster. He doesn't dish out damage like Dorn but his Strength is high enough to wear the best armor out there, he can max out skill in Axes, and he gets a boatload of hit points for tanking. His health regeneration is handy too, give him that Buckley's Buckler you can buy at the Friendly Arm Inn early in the game and he has a whopping 21 Constitution for tanking.
That was awesome! Thank you for the help and info.
So Orc multi-class fighter/cleric or Human duel-class ranger/cleric... And deltago also said Mage/Cleric and Artemius said most useful is Gnome Cleric/mage... I am no longer interested in Cleric/thief.
And if going with one of those three for my PC, who would you choose the other 5 to be from the 6 choices?
One, if you're not playing with the Normal Rules or aren't using any mods effecting hit points at level up, it's possible Dorn could get some bad hit point rolls early on leveling up and have relatively few HP to work with. There was a guy I watched doing a let's play with an evil aligned party who had a Dorn with around 15 HPs at level 3. It was kinda hilarious to see but I felt kinda bad for him at the same time with his Dorn being a glass cannon. Even with Normal Rules where HP rolls are maxed out he doesn't have as many HPs as other potential fighters might have, and a Paladin's experience progression is slower than most other classes too. Dorn has a lot of offensive might, but takes gaining at least a few levels before he can start taking hits for everyone (him and Kivan will end up having similar HP progression actually). Kivan, Coran, and Imoen will mainly be supplementing the party at range as all are great with bows and two of them are Elves for the bow THACO bonus so it's a great fit for them. Have a spellcaster like Edwin or Baeloth added in on top of that, and your ranged damage is already well set.
Another thing is if you plan to have Imoen dual class into a Mage herself, which could take the place of additional Mage spellcasting your Cleric/Illusionist would provide. A Thief-->Mage dual class combo is more potent than the option of the muliclass Cleric/Thief for your own character, as they can still get the same weapon selection and cast all the spells they want. And since you'll have Coran eventually, you can dual class Imoen and not lose out completely on thieving skills if you dual class her after getting Coran on board. A level 1 Mage will definitely have her weak for a short while, but the hit points she gained from her Thief levels will still be present so she won't be entirely squishy as a character. It's a good option though cus of the versatility it would provide, she'd still be just as good with her bow as before but in addition she'd get to cast some spells too.
Both Edwin and Baeloth are legit good choices for spellcasters. Edwin has more overall spells available in the spellbook, Baeloth offers more versatile spellcasting and has 50% magic resistance as a drow. Both have solid defenses as well with their stats (Constitution and/or Dexterity) so it's a matter of preference though you'll be getting Edwin first either way and building up his spellbook. If by chance you wanted to use both Edwin and Baeloth in the party, then it would make sense to not play as a Cleric/Illusionist unless you wanted a bunch more spellcasting in exchange for getting rid of Imoen or Coran, as well as likely leaving Dorn up in the front lines by himself. It's a matter of looking at your preferences and considering the tradeoffs, as Dorn and Kivan would be your best melee fighters but neither get fast experience progression with their class and both don't get bonus hit points with their Constitution. It would also be wise to make use of weapon proficiencies not taken up by any of your party NPCs, and no one in your party would be using any blunt melee weapons except Staffs, too many spellcasters and they'll all be using slings (or darts for Baeloth) and there's only so many magical slings/darts to go around. Go with blunt weapons though and you'll get to use the best of any of those weapons you pick and dual wield them for maximum carnage.
All in all, it comes down to preference with your playstyle. In all honesty I've never really used backstabbing with my Thieves myself, as they tend to work better as archers pelting from afar like Coran or Imoen for my own setup as the few melee party members go in and take the attention off the archers and weaker party members. Generally two front line fighters is adequate and allows you to 'substitute' someone out of the fray if their hit points drop too low and have the archers help them out while they back off. Having only one frontliner though means you'll be having one of your archers switching out weapons often or needing to go and support Dorn if everyone gangs up on him and he can't hold out long enough. Later in the game it's probably not as worrisome, but a melee focused Cleric is simply powerful in their own right because the buffing spells really benefit a Fighter type compared to a pure spellcasting type. Edwin by himself is already enough Mage spellcasting cus he's a specialist Mage and on top of that his amulet gives him more spellcasting, and he can also use some magical equipment at one point which can increase the amount of his low level spells. Imoen could help double up on that for you while your character supports Dorn, or if you wanted to drop Imoen once you can get Baeloth that's certainly an option too as Sorcerers can give you the spells you want when you want.
Same applies as to whether to dual class or multi class. It's a matter of preference, though in the long term dual classing means you get to progress the rest of the way as a Cleric and get to be a Cleric with some of the skill and weapon benefits of a Fighter type, just without the later game progression as a Fighter. I think you'd only lose out on one late end level in BG2 with a dual classing early so if you prefer getting some abilities for free while wanting to build around a Cleric, then dual classing might be for you. If progressively building up a frontliner who can cast spells sounds more interesting and will have more consistent progression, then that might be for you. You also get the option of being either a Half-Orc or Dwarf with a multi class while dual class is limited to Human, though you seem like you're set on playing a Half-Orc for a multi class if you do it that way. The 19 Constitution from a Half-Orc or Dwarf is also pretty handy for those extra hit points, another plus for a multi class.
Again, it's just preference. You'll offer more melee support in the first game than in the second one I'd assume based on need and party setup, as your party setup for the 2nd game is likely to be much different and more reliant on your spellcasting in general than the first one.
You are correct that I need some defense and being a Cleric/Fighter not only adds awesome damage but it adds defense... Furthermore, I am not losing much on the offense department compared to a cleric/mage.
I checked them out at max level
Orc multi Fighter/cleric
14-17 damage 8 thaco 3 attacks
13-15 damage 10 thaco
Hp-98
Half Elf multi Ranger/Cleric
13-16 damage 8 thaco 3 attacks
11-14 damage 10 thaco
Hp-91
Human Dual Cleric/Ranger
13-16 damage 9 thaco 3 attacks
11-14 damage 11 thaco
Hp-104
Human Dual Cleric/Fighter
16-19 damage 7 thaco 3 attacks
14-17 damage 9 thaco
HP-104
The Human Cleric/Fighter is the best. Te extra spell options from ranger are only a few extra options and not worth losing out on the huge drop in damage, HP, and thaco. Also they both can cast the same amount of spells. The human Dual Cleric/Fighter actually get 8 proficiency points not 7. so I can hit grand mastery in hammers and mastery in dual wielding and even have the option of sacrificing some close range to add 5 into slings for a heavy hitting slinger. However it is not as much damage as a dual wielding hammer wielder. but it is more accurate by 2 thaco cmpared to the main hand and 4 thaco compared to the offhand. Range would be 18-21 damage with 2x attacks and 5 thaco.
I have now changed my original post to only one question. What is best 5 of the 6 characters with my dual class human cleric/fighter.
Also, in keeping Coran in my team I will be giving him the strength belt... He will have 19 str, 20 dex, and 12 constitution... He will be good at archery and similar to dorn if doing melee... Also, he will be a great backstabber. He could even equip a shield if I chose to. I could even give the dex gauntlets to Dorn making him similar to Kivan-if not better. Although, I may rather give him the Expertise gloves. Giving the dex gloves to baeloth and especially Edwin would be much prefered.
So i am currently thinking three different party combos
1.PC, Dorn, Coran, Imoen, Edwin, Baeloth.
2.PC, Dorn, Coran, Imoen, Kivan, Edwin.
3.PC, Dorn, Coran, Imoen, Kivan, Baeloth.
I also need to take into consideration that there are:
3x gloves of expertise +1 thaco +2damage
1x gloves of archery +2 thaco
2x gloves of strength str 18/00
1x gloves of dexterity dex 18
Who would i give them to and do those help me make my final decision of who I will pick?
Especially thanks to thelovebat who made my life a hell of a lot easier.
Whats the difference between Insightful, agree, and like??? I have tried to do more than one sometimes and a few times it let me. but other times it did not.
2. Dorn
3. Coran
4. Imoen
5. Edwin
6. Kivan
If I had to drop a character out of these 6 I would drop Kivan. The other 5 are very powerful besides arguably Imoen but it's great to have 2 thieves in BG1 due to the lower levels so I'd keep her over Kivan.
1, 2, 3 and 5 are 4 of the most powerful characters in BG1.
The characters considered the best in BG 1 are commonly the PC, Baeloth, Dorn, Coran, and Edwin.
Kaigan and Yeslick are up there too... Yeslick only because he is the best cleric that can join although he is only mediocre... Also, Kaigan and Yeslick have one thing in common... They require two items to become good The dex gloves and strength belt... If those items did not exist they would suck. Further, I would much rather give it to someone who is kickass and make him even more so(Coran and Edwin). And because they need the dex gloves they cannot use the gloves of expertise-Coran, Dorn, the PC, and Kivan can. There are 3 of the expertise and 1 archers gloves in the game--plenty to go around if i have both mages in the group... I just don't like that weakness that Kaigan and Yeslick have; furthermore, the groups overall offense is lowered if I have one of them in the group--and for me, the tankiness is not enough to make up for the deficit... Also, Coran misses out on the strength belt if one of them is on the team and Edwin misses out on the dex gloves if one of them are on the team.
So now that I have said to myself that Kaigan and Yeslick are no good for me... My next best options where becoming a cleric and choosing Kivan, Imoen, and Shar-Teel to complete the team... But after what you just said... And after thinking about it over and over in my head... You are correct... Kivan is not as important as Imoen... but then that brings in Shar-Teel who is similar to Kivan and has Theif ability when dual classed...
That is how I came to my two questions that I posted on this forum. And now, thanks to Thelovebat, I have only one question and may take your advice.
1. Human Dual Cleric/Fighter
2. Dorn
3. Coran
4. Edwin
5. Baeloth
6. Imoen Dual to mage or Shar-Teel Dual to thief
There's a pretty important fifth level spell called Chaotic Commands that protects you from the many, many mind-control spells that fly around in BG2. Death Ward will be important if you don't want to get Power Word: Slain or Disintegrated, and Aerial Servants from sixth level spells are awfully nice to have. Raise Dead is useful when you're far from temple help.
You have to be at least 10th level as a cleric to get a single cast of Chaotic Commands, if I recall correctly. 11th level for two Chaotic Commands, or a Chaotic Commands and a Raise Dead.
The party you're planning has no other divine caster in it, I notice. You might want to reconsider that half-orc cleric-fighter multiclass.
Or make room for Viconia. You don't really need *three* arcane casters.
I think the more clear abbreviation would be Fighter>Cleric, which I read when I see it in these discussions as "Fighter into Cleric".
I am fighter going into cleric. I only said cleric/fighter because my cleric is higher level then my fighter in the end.
This team is for strictly Baldur's gate 1 only... I will have another team for Baldur's gate 2 only in which I give the PC characters all the tombs of dex, str, wis, etc. And the Class I give him will be made for BG 2:EE... Maybe sorcerer??? Not sure yet but I will save that for later.
Also, I finally figured out my final team.
If I go Fighter dual to Cleric:
1. Pc
2. Dorn
3. Coran
4. Edwin
5. Baeloth
6. Shar-Teel
If I go Fighter Dual to Thief:
1. Pc
2. Dorn
3. Coran
4. Edwin
5. Baeloth
6. Yeslick
I'd plan to import to bg2 as it's really fun and you can choose exactly what bhaalspawn powers to have along with getting all the tomes and pantaloons. If you do I'd definitely recommend a multiclass FT, FMT or FC based on what you've said.
It seems that you really want the most powerful party but honestly the game isn't that hard unless you install some mods. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to have a look at SCS?
The first time is to have my favorite most powerful party for BG1 only. I am sure there are more than one most powerful parties in this game... I don't find this game hard at all, it is like most other RPG games not action based, are very easy. I like OVERKILL and the feeling of invincibility. I give my enemies no chance. I am a perfectionist and go crazy when I find there is something that can be better. And I will go crazy if I missed an item in the game and can never get it again even if it is something useless. I will start over from the beginning. I played Final fantasy 10 and fully completed all the sphere grids, and went over them again to place more powerful spheres into the weak spheres, so in doing so i completed all of them twice over. I also devised what was the best of the seven characters to have in my team for overkill. And my items reached 99, 99, 99, etc. Completionist, overkillest, Perfectionist. In command and conquer I played the french and at first would only focus on creating an unstoppable defense... Then I would lay back creating an army to a size I did not need. I also made sure the entire mini map was colored in my dots. The computer couldn't take it. I wanted to reach the number of a million soldiers but it crashed on me. This is how I have fun in my leisure time. We all love something right? Let us do it if it doesn't harm anyone else in the process. In Warcraft 3--I cheated to do this--I loved the night elves because they were the only ones who could exceed the population limit through the use of their buildings being uprooted. I made hundreds of the eternal trees and uprooted them... By the time i was ready to attack my army looked like an unstoppable moving sea of trees or forest of impending doom moving with my regular army that would flank the enemies from behind with speed. Although, the game was moving at a crawl, I eventually won lol. This even extends outside my gaming life... When I go to the gym I will push my self to the extreme I will almost puke and need to lay on the floor because I am sooo High from the work out.
The second play through is strictly for the best results for transferring to BG2. In the second one, I will not have one of the few most powerful BG 1 parties. Because all the tombs of +1 to str, wisdom, dex, etc. will be added to my PC character. In doing so, i will have a +8 buff added to my PC character in BG2. And I really wont care who is in my team for BG1... I will be speeding through to get the best of what I can transfer to BG2 including doing all the new Npc special quests and getting max Exp and best equipments and the pantaloons etc. Also, the Class I choose for my character will be strictly made for BG2 and not BG1.
P.S.
It is because of my personality that I do not play games like World of Warcraft. Those games will literally be like Alcohol for me or worse--Poison. I WILL DIE if i played them. And dieing is not fun lol.
Thank you for posting your comment... It is what ultimately gave me my final two team makeup... Right now I am doing the math to see if yeslick is over all better than the other team in numbers.
1. PC Fighter/Thief
2. Yeslick
3. Dorn
4. Coran
5. Baeloth
6. Edwin
This team has:
27 more over all HP
6.5-6.5 more overall damage
Better thief skills
And slightly better overall back stab damage
The other team with Shar-Teel has:
1 better AC
3 better overall thaco.
and 3 more clerical Spells
However, the extra AC is not as practical because edwin is a caster that should be kept out of danger.
the extra 3 thaco is also not as practical because this situation would not be used as much... furthermore, I would say it is worth 1 thaco. and the extra 3 spells......
Therefore this team has only 1 overall thaco and 3 more spells compared to everything else the other team has.
PC Fighter/thief with Yeslick for the win!
Thank you all for guiding me in the right path
Special thanks to
Artemius_I, Deltago, FinneousPJ, and especially Thelovebat and Wowo
Thank you all for being so kind and generous! You guys truly are masters of BG!