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What spells ignore MR in BG2EE?

RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 242
I know some changed from default BG2 so I'd like to know.
Gotta kill those damn drow and other pesky MR enemies.

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Comments

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    "Lower Resistance" ignores magic resistance :open_mouth:

    JuliusBorisovsemiticgodAnduinGanda
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,771
    edited August 2015
    Fire Storm, Breath Attack (Dragon Disciple ability) and Dragon's Breath all ignore it. Sunfire no longer does.

    JuliusBorisovGanda
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 2,973
    I don't know why, but spells that are considered "magic energy" such as magic missiles, skull trap and horrid wilting have a greater chance of bypassing magic resistance.

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 990
    Try using more summons around those enemies, if you can. Mordenkainen's Sword comes to mind as a good one. You can still summon something and have it beat the hell out of something with magic resistance, or at least serve as fodder and die on their blades instead of your party.

  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    DJKajuru said:

    I don't know why, but spells that are considered "magic energy" such as magic missiles, skull trap and horrid wilting have a greater chance of bypassing magic resistance.

    I think this is just because the spells that deal magic damage typically deal damage over multiple hits such as magic missile. It has 5 max projectiles, each of which has a separate chance of bypassing MR. So 2 of them might hit while 3 are resisted. The same applies with ADHW, although there are less hits. There are atleast 2 from what I can gather.

    OlvynChurulolien
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,017
    Yannir said:


    I think this is just because the spells that deal magic damage typically deal damage over multiple hits such as magic missile. It has 5 max projectiles, each of which has a separate chance of bypassing MR. So 2 of them might hit while 3 are resisted. The same applies with ADHW, although there are less hits. There are atleast 2 from what I can gather.

    Understood but in fact none of them bypass the resistance. If you have 100% MR then magic missiles, skull trap, horrid wilting won't hit you.

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    @Musigny Yeah, my wording was a bit sucky there. I just can't think of a better word than bypass. In any case, I meant it as in they have a chance to bypass anything less than 100% MR.

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,581
    Basically most of the spells made to debuff your enemy, like breach pierce magic dispel magic and of course lower resistance. In terms of damage spell, I can think of three of them only, they are Fire storm (priest lvl7), dragon breath and the innate breath weapon from dragon disciple

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 2,973

    @DJKajuru Reference please?

    I'm taking it from personal experience- I've always had a greater chance of hitting dragons , drow and other magical resistant creatures with skull traps and the like, much more than other spells. I recall it from the original BG2, though, don't know if BG2EE changed it.

  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Think Bolt of Glory bypasses MR.

    semiticgod
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Thx for taking the time explaining. I was always sketchy on how this worked!

    JuliusBorisov
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    oh hey i didn't know fireshield backlash!!! that makes it much more useful! Darn, just when you thought you knew everything about this game!

    semiticgod
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,362
    edited January 2016
    Oh yes, fireshield backlashes! Have red+blue shields up and protect yourself with protection from magic weapons. Cast protection from magical weapons every 24 seconds. Even mighty Drizzt will kill himself on your shields, trying to hit you.

    Against drow hordes, incendiary cloud is useful too. Far more useful than horrid wilting. It does not ignore mr but it stays in place and has a chance to hit a few of the drow each round for the duration, and it does good damage when it hits. A few hits will kill a drow. You can cast pro from fire (or have fire resistance from items+dragon disciple or just go spell immunity:evocation) on yourself and stay in the cloud, protecting yourself with pro from magical weapons. And whistling a happy tune as the drows around you scream in agony and they eventually cook to a nice crisp.

    Easiest way to kill drows is:
    Cast improved haste and shapechange beforehand.
    Cast time stop
    Transform into mind flayer.
    Go devour their brains in the time stop. You get IIRC 8 attacks/round with improved haste. And drows fall with 2-3 hits.
    You don't get any xp but if you are a solo mage that can cast 9th lvl spells like that you don't need no xp.

    BlackravenJuliusBorisov
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    I remember years back there use to be an exploit where casting magic resistance from the divine spell pool SET your magic resistance to that value meaning 100% MR enemies can be made to lose huge chuck of their resistance by casting this buff on them. I hope EE closed that exploit. Otherwise the spell magic resistance bypasses enemy magic resistance also XD.

    BlackravensemiticgodGanda
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    @biffyclanger I thought that's how it's supposed to work.

    Gotural
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,189

    @biffyclanger I thought that's how it's supposed to work.

    Some players with a more puristic view of the spell system, possibly based on P&P (not sure, don't know the rules), will say that Magic Resistance is a buff for the caster or their companions, evidenced by the fact that it is a blue spell in the spellbook. According to them the spell wasn't designed to be used to lower the magic resistance of enemies.

    JuliusBorisov
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    I am convinced that is how it's supposed to work, it sets MR to a certain value whith no saves possible.
    But also that is supposed that you cast it on your party, not enemies, is a blue spell, a protective one, intended to give some MR, not to boost it on characters that alredy have, it sets it. And this is the reason why it bypas MR and there is no saving throvs, just like in heal or other benefical divine spells.
    Using it in an offensive way is as cheasy as using CC to have up to 4 PI, when a limit of 1 PI was implemented. or PI to ignore the implemented summon limit.

    I think that in case of other cheese like using Spell trap & PI to recharge spells or Mislead clones chanting Bard Song the intentions of the developers are less clear. Maybe there the developers Just did not think about the possibility at all. Maybe they did not nerf those things just because did not think that was possible things to do.
    In case of a blue clerical spell, a defensive one, used offensively or using CC and PI to ignore limits that are implemented in the game there is not a maybe, the intentions of the developers are clear.

    I think also that there is nothing wrong in using that cheese, if you like, and I don't think that there is any reason to nerf them. Like there is nothing wrong in importing multiple times to have a lot of HP, to ctrl-K, to give charname better stats then you can roll whitout spending more time in rolling then in playng or that he can legitimately have (I stop here but there is a lot more examples......).
    Is a game, your game, if you have fun doing those things do them, if you don't have fun don't do them.
    But please don't cheat on yourselves. Sometimes I do some or all of those things, other times I don't. But if I am using an OP item, a cheese or a cheat I am aware to do it, and I don't feel guilty since is my game and I have fun doing it. But I don't try to find insincere justifications, that will make me guilty!

    BlackravenbiffyclangerJuliusBorisovathanas
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,189
    @gorgonzola, I agree with your reasoning. My only issue with the Magic Resistance spell is that it's not very useful as a defensive spell due to the fact that it sets rather than adds MR. This means that even with a level 40 Cleric you're basically taking a 20% chance that enemies' spells kill you if you rely on the priest spell MR for your protection. May as well skip it and use items or other protective spells to avoid the effects of the enemy's spells. For this reason I'm not really against offensive use of the spell. That way at least it serves a purpose.

    JuliusBorisovGanda
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Gotural said:

    I don't see the problem with the Magic Resistance spell.
    Lower Resistance also ignores MR (of course) and doesn't offer a save neither.

    But Magic Resistance is melee range and has a loooooooonnnngg one round long casting time, it's totally balanced IMO.

    Assuming max caster level (20), Lower Resistance will reduce MR by 30% and Magic Resistance will set it to 40%, even if the enemy has 100% base MR which would be the best scenario possible for Magic Resistance, it will only be twice as strong as Lower Resistance, effectively reducing the critter MR by 60%.

    In a lot of other cases, it's less than twice as strong for a spell that I remind you takes a whole round to cast in melee range.

    Good point, most enemies are not 100% magic immune. Its faster to caste 3x Lower resistence with sequencer anyway in any other circumstances, so yeah its not game breaking. got me thinking C/M with 3xBolt of glory in a squencer can probably end most mages.

    BlackravenGanda
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,189
    @Gotural, ah right, it maxes out at level 20, so you only get 40%, making it even less convincing as a defensive spell. Yeah, I think my Cleric/Thief is going to cast it unabashedly, or more precisely his Vhailor-simmy is :p

    Goturallolien
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    As a defensive spell 40% MR is a real bonus, 40% chance to avoid completely the effe cts of enemy spells.
    If siackable whith other ways to increase MR would be much powerfull, but has its power.

    As offensive if someone think that don't unbalance the game (and even if he think that it do it but is happy about it), there is nothing wrong in using it. Everybody can decide what in his game will allow and what will not, whithouy harming everybody else. Everyone is the king of his own game.
    I just told that there is enough evidence about the fact that the offensive use was not intended by developers, not that is unbalancing or OP, those are judgments that every player has to do by himself, in his own game.

    semiticgod
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Just idle musing here, but a dual classed level 15 cleric -> mage can use a Spell Trigger to bypass magic resistance on anything, no?

    Magic Resistance + Lower Resist + Any Other Spell.

    Also, Implosion ignores MR, is one of the only MR ignoring spells that's not entirely fire based, and you can have three on a Chain Contingency.

    Ganda
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    Pantalion said:

    Just idle musing here, but a dual classed level 15 cleric -> mage can use a Spell Trigger to bypass magic resistance on anything, no?

    Magic Resistance + Lower Resist + Any Other Spell.

    Also, Implosion ignores MR, is one of the only MR ignoring spells that's not entirely fire based, and you can have three on a Chain Contingency.

    Whith a cleric/mage and a something/mage in the party you can win against a dragon in a couple of seconds.
    The 3rd spell of the C/M sequencer will be GM and the other mage will have 3xFleeblemind or 3xFlesh to Stone.

    3 implosions in CC are powerfull and whith 3xStorm of Vengeance you disrupt every mage and do some damage. When I read of Aerie lacking in power I just can't understand, maybe they play another game.

    What @Reticent pointed out is another reason why is pretty evident that Magic Resistance is not intended for offensive use, but again if you are happy nothing prevent you to do it.

    ReticentPantalionsemiticgodJuliusBorisov
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Does 3x storm of vengeance actually stack?

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    In notEE they do, I don't know about EE.
    And I don't see a good reason why they should not as they are AoE spells like Web or Fireball.
    Maybe there is some logic in having some potions or spells like GM unstackable, but making SoV not stack where similar AoE disabling or damaging spells do seems to me an arbitrary nerfing.
    Shure 3x SoV is a powerfull combination, but they are top level clerical spells, also 3x ADHW or Dragon Breath are poverfull.

    GoturalJuliusBorisovlolien
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