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[Classes\Kits Request] Make Wizard Specialisations Special

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  • Leaf_EaterLeaf_Eater Member Posts: 71

    Probably no one in the history of BG2 has used the spell Sleep more than once, but in BG1 it dominates, it is an absolutely amazing spell that is easily more useful than things like Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb.

    I used sleep one time in BG2, that was enough unmemorize and put more dmg spells on the slot ^^
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Leaf_Eater Sleep only works on low hit-dice foes, like goblins, orcs and xvarts. Anything over about 3 hit dice (ogres and such) are pretty much immune to the spell or get such bonuses to their save, that it's generally not worth it. You also have to be careful where you target the spells at low levels or you can end up taking out members of your own party (in P&P, not so sure about BG). But even low HD creatures get a saving throw. Later, it's far more worth it to memorize magic missile, which always hits and does guaranteed damage (2-5 per missile, but every bit helps). At higher levels, Chromatic Orb also becomes viable, as you need to roll to hit with it, but each level, the spell becomes a little more effective and does more damage with interesting side effects. If you get up to level 12, for instance, it turns into a death spell, and even if the target makes their save, they are paralyzed.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited July 2012
    Merged the similar threads.
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
    LadyRhian said:

    @Leaf_Eater Sleep only works on low hit-dice foes, like goblins, orcs and xvarts. Anything over about 3 hit dice (ogres and such) are pretty much immune to the spell or get such bonuses to their save, that it's generally not worth it. You also have to be careful where you target the spells at low levels or you can end up taking out members of your own party (in P&P, not so sure about BG). But even low HD creatures get a saving throw. Later, it's far more worth it to memorize magic missile, which always hits and does guaranteed damage (2-5 per missile, but every bit helps). At higher levels, Chromatic Orb also becomes viable, as you need to roll to hit with it, but each level, the spell becomes a little more effective and does more damage with interesting side effects. If you get up to level 12, for instance, it turns into a death spell, and even if the target makes their save, they are paralyzed.

    Yup. As much as people talk about "liner fighters/quadratic mages," spells like Sleep and Colour Spray honestly make Mages so powerful in the beginning of BG1. Especially since missile weapons are a mage's worst nightmare, being able to incapacitate a bunch of hobgoblins and/or bandits is way more effective than a fighter's mere armour class and hit dice.

    @Tanthalas Thanks, man. Makes the discussion a bit more broad.
  • bill_zagoudisbill_zagoudis Member Posts: 207
    good idea,though personally i could compromise with a +1 penalty to opponents saving throw on the specialist's school
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    If it can be implemented, incorporating the Specialist Wizard bonuses, penalties, and special abilities from the 2nd edition Wizard's Handbook would make this class much more enjoyable to play. The +1 spell bonus wasn't that much more of an incentive to play a SW (even though I always play a Necromancer anyway).

    Does anyone know if any changes to the game have been made to this effect?
  • SixheadeddogSixheadeddog Member Posts: 197
    If any change at all is made to specialist wizards, I think that the school-specific bonuses (extra spell from specialized school, bonus to learn spells from specialized school, and save bonus/penalty applied when targetted/casting from specialized school) should be implemented. But barring that, they should be left alone.
    I sorta don't even think the mage needs kits anyway. With the specialists, the Wild Mage and the Sorcerer, you almost don't need more flavor added to the "casts wizard spells" segment of the character population.
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    @Sixheadeddog I disagree because the downside to picking a specialist mage is that you cannot choose the opposing school spells (and I believe one of those schools has TWO opposing schools). 1 Extra spell per level is a great start, but I think there could be more done to add greatness to the specialists. Like putting in some type of bonuses when casting spells of that nature.

    I also think adding in the ability to dual class to that particular specialist be brought back in. (Multi class I think should be allowed too but I'm not sure if that's unbalancing.)
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    edited September 2012
    I am not familiar with AD&D rules by the book, but at least in 3rd Edition, you gain additional DC to your specialized school's spells. I believe I recall reading elsewhere on the BG:EE forums AD&D rules gave some sort of bonuses to the spells in your chosen school but I don't recall what those would be.

    I think it is kind of silly the incentive to pick a specialized school is not because of the spells that school represents but purely because of the school opposed to it.

    Right now, there is literally no incentive to pick invoker except to gimp yourself. (Some people like that challenge.) I cannot fathom why anyone would roll Invoker, ever, when you could instead pick Diviner and only lose out on Conjuration instead of Conjuration AND Enchantment.

    Even if it was technically a nerf by forcing it, I wouldn't mind if it just made it so the bonus spell per level HAD to be in your chosen school. You'd have to add at least one type of every spell per level but at least I feel like the reason I chose a spell school is because of THAT SPECIFIC school.
  • CrazedSlayerCrazedSlayer Member Posts: 130
    I'd settle for different items and equipment only being usable by specific schools.
    sandmanCCL
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    That'd be cool, too.

    I just think it's kind of silly I can take, say, Enchanter and not be better at putting people to sleep or charming then than a Conjurer.
    Mortianna
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited September 2012
    Thanks @Anton

    Merged the similar threads.
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