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Paladin kits which is best?

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Comments

  • neednewshoesneednewshoes Member Posts: 1
    blackgaurd helm of opposite alignment = job done

    RAM021
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,596
    which job?
    the one to have him falling so becoming a sub par fighter?
    at least i hope a blackguard falls if his alignment becomes good, just as the other paladins falls if their alignment changes from good, but as i almost always play good i am not sure that it really happens.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,141
    edited June 12
    Cavalier
    Blackguards don't fall, but you can't import the Helm of Opposite Alignment to SoA, so it doesn't affect much. Although Blackguards have their own "Carsomyr", it's inferior. And after turning evil in Hell for Soul Reaver, good Paladins can still wield true Carsomyr if it's not removed from the quick slot. Turning evil itself doesn't fall Paladins, just the few scripts in Hell after evil paths, which you can avoid.

    StummvonBordwehrgorgonzolaRAM021
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,899
    Inquisitor
    Apparently I voted inquisitor 4 years ago.

    Funnily enough my favourite playthrough ever was actually with an undead hunter. You get some solid bonuses against undead and retain your ability to spellcast. Makes for a solid warrior with very little downsides (their only downside is they can't use Lay on Hands).

    StummvonBordwehrJuliusBorisovArviaRAM021
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 823
    histamiini wrote: »
    Blackguards don't fall, but you can't import the Helm of Opposite Alignment to SoA, so it doesn't affect much. Although Blackguards have their own "Carsomyr", it's inferior. And after turning evil in Hell for Soul Reaver, good Paladins can still wield true Carsomyr if it's not removed from the quick slot. Turning evil itself doesn't fall Paladins, just the few scripts in Hell after evil paths, which you can avoid.

    From what I understand, Dorn can fall as a part of his questline though, so it seems weird that they included no mechanism for the player to fall as a blackguard.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 4,394
    Cavalier
    Raduziel wrote: »
    It depends.

    IWDEE? Undead Hunter

    BGEE? Cavalier

    BG2EE? Inquisitor

    BG2EE? Cavalier + Keldorn!

    tbone1RAM021
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,596
    Chronicler wrote: »
    From what I understand, Dorn can fall as a part of his questline though, so it seems weird that they included no mechanism for the player to fall as a blackguard.
    maybe it is because at least in bg2 there is no way for an evil charname to change alignment.
    still as the blackguard is tied to a certain alignment, like the good paladins are, the logic tells that if for whatever reason the alignment changes the class requirements are lost so a blackguard should fall.

    and for bg, where is possible to change alignment trough the helm, if it is not implemented there is something wrong, at least if a good pally falls equipping the helm.
    thing that RP wise could also not happen as the helm is a cursed item, but does not change permanently the alignment, if i am not wrong, once removed (curse and item) the natural alignment should come back.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 823
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    From what I understand, Dorn can fall as a part of his questline though, so it seems weird that they included no mechanism for the player to fall as a blackguard.
    maybe it is because at least in bg2 there is no way for an evil charname to change alignment.
    still as the blackguard is tied to a certain alignment, like the good paladins are, the logic tells that if for whatever reason the alignment changes the class requirements are lost so a blackguard should fall.

    and for bg, where is possible to change alignment trough the helm, if it is not implemented there is something wrong, at least if a good pally falls equipping the helm.
    thing that RP wise could also not happen as the helm is a cursed item, but does not change permanently the alignment, if i am not wrong, once removed (curse and item) the natural alignment should come back.

    Changing alignment isn't the only way for paladins to fall though. They also fall if they drop below a certain reputation.

    If Good Paladins have to stay above 8 reputation, it makes sense that an evil paladin would have to stay below 12, or if that's too harsh some new stipulation should be put in place of that.

    I don't think the helm causes any kind of paladin or ranger to fall, for what it's worth. Good or Bad.

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,964
    Cavalier
    FWIW, I think it's the cavalier, partly because that's how I envisioned paladins since I first played PnP in the early 80s. Given the overall paladin ethos, ranged weapons always seemed dodgy.

    ThacoBellArviaBalrog99
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,781
    Undead Hunter
    Level drain, ugh....

    ArviaBalrog99
  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 608
    Undead Hunter
    Undead hunter! Although I agree with @tbone1 that ranged weapons don't fit the paladin honor... except in early BG when it would be suicidal to tank an ogre when you have only 14 HP (Tried that. Didn't end well. Then I reconsidered my honor).

    BelgarathMTH
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,131
    Vanilla Pally, no kit is needed.
    Arvia wrote: »
    Imagine a fighter with divine powers, the Charisma of 17 or 18 that BG requires for paladins, and Immunity to Fear. That could lead to some very dangerous and bad decisions and a tendency to become an overzealous but worshipped tyrant.

    I said this a long time ago in another thread, but I can totally envision a campaign setting where Lawful Good "won" - think the opposite of the Tyranny game - and not the empire or whatever is ruled with an iron fist by paladins unable to consider they might do anything bad, and the result is a harsh tyranny. And the PCs might be Neutral fighters/thieves/mages, fighting against the regime.

    Or even... what if the paladins formed an alliance with wizards? And the rebels are fighters, thieves, and druids, or something.

    Could be fun.

    ArviagorgonzolaThacoBellDreadKhan
  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 608
    Undead Hunter
    @subtledoctor , sounds interesting. But in such a setting I would still prefer to be a paladin and try to change the system from within, make them see reason and change the laws. I wouldn't want to actively fight them unless they were Fallen.
    I mean, even governing with an iron fist wouldn't mean they could imprison or execute innocents without falling.
    But laws can be unjust, very strict and unforgiving, it's true. Interesting idea.

    But I wouldn't buy a game where you *have* to kill paladins without an alternative solution, I think.

    gorgonzolaBelgarathMTHThacoBellRAM021
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 654
    Never forget that paladins (mainly in 2ed) first good and just after lawful in allignement. They cannot fear in later editions but never become tryants because they have the needed wisdom to decide what is wrong and good and what is not.

    ArviaThacoBell
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,799
    edited June 22
    I know of a few examples of very questionable paladins without getting into later editions, but as a trope it'd be pretty fresh. I think one issue in 3.x for example, any divine caster (other than maybe an Ur-priest, assuming one exists) must meet their deity's approval, so it might not be entirely doable in Faerun, but D&D has tons of settings.

    I think if you were Paladin of a LN deity, it might be possible to do some unpleasant things before falling. They'd still have too keep the code, but iirc, its the deity (or cause, in some settings) that choses when you've crossed the line.

    Edit: Also, iirc Paladins can do acts of neutrality, or else they be paralyzed into inaction, as most of daily life is neutral. I guess the question is how evil can you be and still be neutral? There used to be alignment 'tendency', as in something could be True Neutral, and have evil tendencies, meaning not quite evil, but solidly adjacent.

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