Paladin kits which is best?

SmilingSword

So I'm thinking of running a pally, because I hardly ever have the nutters in my party, because I really don't like paladins much. Then I thought hey if I made a pally and made him a half-elf or elf "I use tweaks/SCS, so shhh" and RP'd him as not lawful stupid most of the time, it could be pretty cool. A high dex pally that never wore anything heavier than chain, because he valued mobility over defense."and I value the chain mail elf sprite over the horrible plate mail elf sprite."

Now I'm just trying to figure out which kit to run, I'm leaning toward a Undead Hunter or a Cavalier, because you get enough dispel out of Carsomyr and party mages take care of all the real debuffing anyways. So Inquisitor is not looking so great, True sight is not really worth it, rogues detect illusions is just better.

Also I like the idea of CHARNAME being a hunter of something, undead, demons, dragons it matters not.

I don't want to play a Blackguard, because I'm almost finished a Assassin run and using the OPness that is poison weapon again just doesn't seem fair. Plus I don't feel like doing a evil run.

But all of this is beside the point. So which paladin do you think is best overall?

SmilingSword

I chose this in terms of strength because SCS vampires scare me. I don't know if I'll run one, but it could be fun.

JuliusBorisov

I really recommend to read https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/32245/the-most-powerful-paladin-class-v-2#latest, @SmilingSword . There're a lot of excellent views there.

As for your specific question, after reading it, I understand that it's not the general poll of which pally kit is the best ever, but more about your own character. You need some help in choosing a pally for a run with specific requirements.

You don't want a Blackguard with his Poison, Inquisitor is not what you're looking for because of Carsomyr.

So, an unkitted pally, an undead hunter and a cavalier are left.

You seek for "a high dex pally that never wore anything heavier than chain, not lawful stupid most of the time".

If I start thinking about a cavalier, then I just can't imagine him in anything rather than the most badass plate mail - he's facing a powerful demon and a dragon, FF**!

An unkittet pally is OK, but I always take kits if the character is not a multi-class combination.

So, an undead hunter. I think a chain mail and an arbalet suit the best, really. He cannot use the Lay on Hands special ability but that is a small price to pay for the extra abilities.

Nimran

Only so you can say "Nobody expects the Baldur's Gate/Athkatla/Saradush Inquisition!"

abacus

In BG2 the Inquisitor is the most mechanically powerful... enemy mages are the biggest danger, and instant and massive dispel plus true sight really goes along way towards neutering them.

That said, Undead Hunter is my favourite kit... there something compelling to me about someone on a mission to wipe out an evil as ubiquitous as the undead.


Plus... I don't like playing "duplicate" charnames... If there's an NPC that is a particular race/class/kit combo, I prefer to play something else.

deltago

Elven undead hunter can have done nice RP to it.

Using a bow and long sword (daystar) and his faith in Labelas Enorath, your PC hunts and destroys all that would attempt to alter thier time on Toril (Read liches and vampires) and free those spirits that have been kept here against their will (read lesser undead).

semiticgoddess

The biggest threats in BG2 are mages. Dispel Magic from an Inquisitor takes down basically everything, and True Sight exposes everything, rendering the toughest critters in the game more or less a non-issue.

Undead Hunters are the stronger option in BG1, however, because hold is so deadly and so common among BG1 enemies, whether it's from a Hold Person spell or a Ghast touch attack. Their immunity to level drain and damage bonuses also make them very strong against vampires, who are among the toughest enemies of BG2. Undead Hunters over the course of the saga are a very close second to Inquisitors--maybe a bit stronger.

If you have a cleric- or druid-heavy party, Inquisitors are much weaker, because their Dispel Magic can't be used nearly as safely. If you have a mage-heavy party (Spell Immunity: Abjuration) or a fighter-heavy party (no buffs to dispel), then Inquisitors are much stronger.

Inquisitors have more potential, but I'd actually consider the Undead Hunter the safer option, especially for BG1.

Of course, if you're willing to use Poison Weapon with Arrows of Detonation, then Blackguard jumps to the top of the stack for BG1.

Yannir

semiticgod said:

Of course, if you're willing to use Poison Weapon with Arrows of Detonation, then Blackguard jumps to the top of the stack for BG1.

Does that also work with the Club of Detonation?

semiticgoddess

@Yannir: I'm afraid not. The Club of Detonation just casts a fireball spell; an Arrow of Detonation has a separate projectile. On-hit effects like Poison Weapon affect projectiles, but not spells cast by weapons.

For another example, Scorcher Ammunition can deal Strength damage with Called Shot, but a Chain Lightning from the Storm Star won't benefit from Smite.

abacus

semiticgod said:

@Yannir: I'm afraid not. The Club of Detonation just casts a fireball spell; an Arrow of Detonation has a separate projectile. On-hit effects like Poison Weapon affect projectiles, but not spells cast by weapons.

For another example, Scorcher Ammunition can deal Strength damage with Called Shot, but a Chain Lightning from the Storm Star won't benefit from Smite.

Didn't know any of this!

Ygramul

semiticgod said:

The biggest threats in BG2 are mages. Dispel Magic from an Inquisitor takes down basically everything, and True Sight exposes everything, rendering the toughest critters in the game more or less a non-issue.
.

Well, of course, in SCS, enemy mages can do tricks like SI:Abjuration + SI:Divination.

Then again a well played/scripted high level mage can only be taken down by another such mage.

Under such conditions, the inherent immunities of the Cavalier (including a little of boost to elemental resists) seem more appealing to me.

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ChorazyGlus

Blackguard because it's new, powerfull and evil and packs steel. What, do I need to elaborate more? *sharpens his sword* chopping time.

elminster

Last time I had Keldorn in my group (during testing of the game I think) I actually ended up dropping him. He made the game too easy.

So I kind of lean inquisitor.

Francois

Level drain is so annoying that permanent immunity to it is really worth it. Like you say Carsomy and your own mages provide plenty of dispel magic.

However Blackguard is arguably more powerfull since you are both immune to fear AND level drain, plus you have aura of fear. But they sold their soul a fiend and they will eventually get eternal torment, so probably not worth it.

deltago

Francois said:

Level drain is so annoying that permanent immunity to it is really worth it. Like you say Carsomy and your own mages provide plenty of dispel magic.

However Blackguard is arguably more powerfull since you are both immune to fear AND level drain, plus you have aura of fear. But they sold their soul a fiend and they will eventually get eternal torment, so probably not worth it.

You'll be a god before that happens, so, totally worth it

Grum

Blackguard is the strongest, but isn't really a paladin. Fluff downsides don't equal mechanics. Lose the detect evil ability? Ok...

Cavalier is my vote. Elemental resists, immune to fear, and the downside is that they can't use some missile weapons (throwinf axes are allowed and they are great).

The other two kits are reliant on facing specific foes to work, which in my book is far too limiting a factor.

Yannir

semiticgod said:

@Yannir: I'm afraid not. The Club of Detonation just casts a fireball spell; an Arrow of Detonation has a separate projectile. On-hit effects like Poison Weapon affect projectiles, but not spells cast by weapons.

For another example, Scorcher Ammunition can deal Strength damage with Called Shot, but a Chain Lightning from the Storm Star won't benefit from Smite.

Well, that's a dam shame. I was already imagining a Blackguard swinging Club of Detonation for some serious godmode mayhem.

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

Inquisitor in BG2. Undead Hunter in IWD.

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DragonKing

The best paladin is the one that lives.

FinneousPJ

I think you'll find it's "The best paladin is a dead paladin" -Dorn

Grum

FinneousPJ said:

I think you'll find it's "The best paladin is a dead paladin" -Dorn

"The best anyone is a dead anyone."

-Dorn

CoM_Solaufein

Undead since there are a lot of undead around that need to be rekilled.

sparrow13x

Blackguard Is very powerful, especially when you play solo and can focus on micromanaging him. He doesn't really miss the Inquisitor's dispel since he can disrupt virtually all mages in the game with a well placed arrow, and can in fact lock down an entire group using the poison and Tuigan's bow.

Absorb Health seems to go through magical defences and can take the last bit of life off of a dragon or lich, but I believe it can be resisted by certain enemies. Aura of Despair is also nice but I mostly stopped using it in ToB because most enemies have stupid high thac0s anyways, and so will you.

Missing out on Carsomyr sucks but once you get Crom Faeyr you won't miss it much at all, and if you really want a weapon like that then you can grab the Blackguard version from the fourth level of watchers keep!

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

For the Emperor!

toolarg

Inquisitor simplifies even the most complex magic battles. Suddenly all the dozen spells mages cast in 2 seconds in SOA and TOB mean nothing. Almost made me feel like I was playing a balanced low-mid level adventure and not the absolute disaster that is high level 2ed.

histamiini

I think there's two options really.

For solo Cavalier easily, best immunities and hit bonuses, summons and more DR because of cleric spells.
For party Inquisitor probably, innate True Sight and Dispel are sweet for a party.

Balrog99

Wow, another necrothread that just picked right up where it left off. I think I answered this one two years ago!

Answers still the same. Cavalier! Pick axes or daggers and you can even bypass the only drawback. Who needs a bow or sling when you can throw axes or poisoned daggers?

tbone1

Balrog99 said:

Wow, another necrothread that just picked right up where it left off. I think I answered this one two years ago!

Answers still the same. Cavalier! Pick axes or daggers and you can even bypass the only drawback. Who needs a bow or sling when you can throw axes or poisoned daggers?

And they use your strength damage bonus, too.

Chronicler

They didn't in the original Baldur's Gate, so that always feels like cheating to me.

Like it's not a big deal if you're using a 1APR class but it's such a huge upgrade for warriors.