Metagaming the Hell Trials (spoilers)

BanArd

I'm just planning my stats ahead and I'd like to know which tests give the better rewards. I couldn't care less about the alignment change! I'm particularly unsettled about the Pride and Selfishness tests. Charname is a melee class.

FEAR TEAR (the Nymph cloak)
Good: Immunity to +1 weapons or less
Evil: +2 to CON, Cloak of Bravery (Immunity to fear and panic)

SELFISHNESS TEAR (sacrifice for companion)
Good: +10% Magic Resistance, -1 to DEX, -2 HP, Lose 75,000 experience
Evil: -2 bonus AC

GREED TEAR (the Blackrazor sword)
Good: -2 bonus to all saving throws
Evil: +15 to HP, Blackrazor

PRIDE TEAR (the dragon)
Good: +20% resistances to fire, cold and electricity
Evil: Gain 200,000 experience

WRATH TEAR (Sarevok)
Good: +1 to WIS and CHA
Evil: +2 to STR

Sharguild

Well, if alignment means nothing to you and you can use a sword, "Black Razor" makes all other choices moot, imho.

Durenas

If you're that concerned with XP loss, come ToB go to the walls of saradush in the north east, equip ranged weapons on everyone and go afk for a few hours killing fire giants.

Yannir

I would go with :

Evil (there's barely anything in ToB that hits with +1 or less)

Evil (just resurrect your companion afterwards, they won't complain)

Good (with warrior-types, -2 saving throws makes you save pretty much anything)

Good (resistances are more useful in the long run, there's plenty of exp to be had)

Evil (kinda obvious, STR is great on warriors, whereas CHA and WIS don't do anything unless your a pally)

joluv

I'd go with good for selfishness, too. In ToB, I think magic resistance is more important than AC by a wide margin.

JuliusBorisov

You know, except for the last test, I now take good choices any time.

Immunity to +1 weapons or less is useful in ToB, yes. There're still enemies there without enchanted weapons. I think there're enough means to make you immune to fear and panic, while +2 CON is good but not so much useful, taking into account you always have a girdle setting CON to 18, and if you have more, then probably these additional hitpoints on your fighter don't save her from nasty magic effects in ToB.

+10% Magic Resistance is better than any bonus to AC in ToB. If it were for BG1, than I would say otherwise, but in ToB, most enemies will hit you anyway.

If you're soloing in a minimal or no-reload game, nothing is better than -2 bonus to all saving throws, even Blackrazor. Especially for ToB fights. For a group run, saving throws are still better.

+20% resistances to fire, cold and electricity are better than 200,000 experience simply because there're a lot of ways of getting more XP while resistances don't come easily.

And only with the last test, there can be a strong case for getting +2 STR. More STR will mean more damage and to hit chances. In the end, it depends on your charname. If she's a fighter type, you need STR (although there're always STR-enhancing items). If she's a divine caster, nothing can be better than +1 WIS, meaning additional spells. Also, +1 WIS may be good for Wish and Limited Wish spells, taking into account what your WIS is.

[Deleted User]

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Sertorius

@subtledoctor

Yeah, I believe it sets allignment to Neutral Evil and causes you to fall if possible.

Yannir

bengoshi said:

Immunity to +1 weapons or less is useful in ToB, yes. There're still enemies there without enchanted weapons. I think there're enough means to make you immune to fear and panic, while +2 CON is good but not so much useful, taking into account you always have a girdle setting CON to 18, and if you have more, then probably these additional hitpoints on your fighter don't save her from nasty magic effects in ToB.

I think the +2 CON is most useful on arcane casters, especially Dragon Disciple. A non-elven DD will reach 21 CON on their lonesome, and Hell trials + MoLtM will bring that to 24. Casters have enough methods to mitigate physical damage anyway, so the weapon immunities are less useful.

Grum

BanArd said:

I'm just planning my stats ahead and I'd like to know which tests give the better rewards. I couldn't care less about the alignment change! I'm particularly unsettled about the Pride and Selfishness tests. Charname is a melee class.

FEAR TEAR (the Nymph cloak)
Good: Immunity to +1 weapons or less
Evil: +2 to CON, Cloak of Bravery (Immunity to fear and panic)

Almost nothing in ToB hits with +1 weapons or less. Just a few orcs in Saradush, which are not a threat anyways. +2 Con for a melee class is great! Go evil.

BanArd said:

SELFISHNESS TEAR (sacrifice for companion)
Good: +10% Magic Resistance, -1 to DEX, -2 HP, Lose 75,000 experience
Evil: -2 bonus AC

A tough one...comes down to planning.

If you gave your character 5% MR from Lum the mad, the Amulet of the Seldarine (10%) and the Ring of Gax (10%), then I'd go for the extra 10% MR. Because 35% MR is actually pretty good, which gets only better with the 15% from the Silver Dragon Scaled armor in dorn's quest line.

If you aren't giving Charname magic resistance, then 10% isn't all that hot, and I'd go for the extra -2 AC.

It also comes down to which NPC gets stolen. If it is one easily replaceable by Sarevok, then YOLO. If not? Don't want to lose an irreplaceable NPC.

BanArd said:

GREED TEAR (the Blackrazor sword)
Good: -2 bonus to all saving throws
Evil: +15 to HP, Blackrazor

Longswords? Take Blackrazor, as it is awesome.
No longswords? -2 bonus to all saving throws is awesome too.

BanArd said:

PRIDE TEAR (the dragon)
Good: +20% resistances to fire, cold and electricity
Evil: Gain 200,000 experience

I'd go for the resistances, as in ToB xp kinda stops mattering after awhile.

BanArd said:

WRATH TEAR (Sarevok)
Good: +1 to WIS and CHA
Evil: +2 to STR

For a melee character: +2 strength is much better.

Assuming a generic human fighter with minmax stats:

Str22
Dex20 (with further -2 AC)
Con22

And if you have blackrazor, it'll easily push your strength up to 25.

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Yannir

@Grum I have to congratulate you, I have never seen a more appropriate use for the word YOLO. I mean, seriously.

Ardul

You could also consider the Quest Pack mod which adds a neutral option for each trial, and makes the alignment change depend on class, current alignment and all decisions. So a paladin would fail from one evil deed, while a fighter could keep his alignment by balancing out acts.. Adds a lot more depth to the whole thing in my opinion.

[Deleted User]

My 2c:

Fear: It's a wash, take whatever you want. The weapon immunity rarely comes up, and if you're min-maxing stats, you probably have all the Con you need anyway. As a melee class, at most you'll likely get 9 HP and hp regen that's too slow to matter in ToB (where healing is super easy to come by anyway).

Selfishness: I'd lean towards the Good option. If you started with 18 Dex and used the tome on yourself, all the -1 Dex costs you is +1 to ranged rolls, and you're melee focused. 75k experience is no great shakes in ToB, and even without other bonuses, 10% MR is still enough to get enemy mages to sometimes waste time lowering your resistance before they cut loose, even if you don't add to it with equipment.

Greed: Go for the Good option unless you can use longswords; Saving throws are king, but Blackrazor is a tasty weapon, and you're unlikely to be enthused about Angurvadal with your already high Strength (the fire damage is nice, but frequently resisted).

Pride: Take the resistances unless for some reason you have ridiculous elemental resistances already from equipment (unlikely, but possible).

Wrath: Strength all the way. Strength is one of the only stats to give consistent benefits at every 20+ level, and if your base Strength is that high, you can skip the Strength-boosting items to free up slots and pass along to your other party members (ever given Imoen a Girdle of Giant Strength and Fire Tooth before? It's kinda fun).