Fighter/thief or Stalker; Who wore it better?

madmaximus

So I rolled a fighter/thief (my first ever non pure class character) to take through BG:EE into SOD and then BG2:EE. Maybe i am so used to Paladins but I didn't expect him to be so squishy, and to be more effective at chunking folks. I am still getting the thieving skills out of him of course. And I imagine rogue HLA's (spike trap, UAI) will end up with the fighter/thief on top. Just wondering If you guys had any comments on who is a better killer, F/T or Stalker? not too late for me to restart and keep Imoen around.

joluv

If you're finding him too squishy, you could always throw some heavy armor on him and play him as a "fighter with benefits" for now. You can start doing more backstabbing later, when his multiplier is higher, his thief skills are more developed, and better light armor is available.

I think the answer to your question is F/T, and I don't think it's especially close.

elminster

Fighter/thief without a doubt. By 220,000 experience you've got x4 backstab multiplier if you are playing a fighter/thief (and you eventually would get x5 at 1.32 million combined xp). By comparison a stalker wouldn't get x4 multiplier until 2.7 million xp (and wouldn't get x5). You'll have less health and your fighter level will generally be a level or so behind, but the fighter/thief is going to be better at killing things (particularly when you consider the rogue HLA's and traps it gets access to).

madmaximus

Thanks guys I will stick with the F/T. Been using him mostly as a crossbowman hiding behind ajantis, with occasionally pulling off a backstab. Think i'll do what joluv said and put some plate on him. got a good roll 18,18,18,10,10,16, plan all tomes going to charname. 1/2 elf, put my prof points in Staffs and crossbows, (heard staff of striking was good for backstab in BG1). Two more questions if I may, are fighter HLA's still worth it? or should I stick to spike trap since this character will also be my main thief. Secondly

Does UAI allow F/T to wield Carsomyr? Reason I chose 1/2 elf over elf was too romance Viconia, so unfortunately no Keldorn this trip and I really love that sword.

Balrog99

UAI will allow you to use Carsomyr. Keep in mind that you can't use a 2-handed sword to backstab with though...

madmaximus

Sweet, I was thinking once ranged weapons were obsolete I'd use to Carsomyr for fighting and one of the good staffs for backstabbing.

joluv

I'd take at least a few Fighter HLAs. Hardiness is always useful, and (Greater) Whirlwind attacks become more important when you use two-handed weapons and crossbows, since otherwise you'll only be able to get to 6 APR (with Improved Haste and Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, and assuming you're not using the Army Scythe). And honestly, too many Spike Traps gets kind of boring.

madmaximus

Yea spike traps are OP probably. I don't mind using em on the jerk at the bottom of watcher's keep though.

Grum

Stealth. Switch to heavy armor. You will stay stealthed. So go backstab and happily tank afterwards with your great AC.

You also get Use Any Item. Which is so game breakingly fun that its amazing.

Backstab with your favorite backstabbery weapon, then switch to Carsomyr. I did that for my fighter/thief, and it was loads of fun. Combine with scrolls as needed. Having spells like stoneskin for boss fights is great.

madmaximus

That is a nifty little trick with the armor. He is really starting to come into his own now that I have his thieving skills up. Also the Army Scythe is a very effective weapon.

valamyr

Balrog99 said:

UAI will allow you to use Carsomyr. Keep in mind that you can't use a 2-handed sword to backstab with though...

My last fighter/thief went for Spears to be able to backstab. Ixil can be upgraded to +6 for TOB so good enough. Did have to do Watchers Keep in Chapter 3 to get the original +4 version though, as there arent that many decent alternatives laying around. I suppose an alternative to early WK would be to rush through to the Underdark and get the Spear of Withering +4.

Anyhow, spears and staves are where its at when it comes to 2h weapons for F/Ts.

joluv

@valamyr: But you can't backstab with spears. They're not Thief weapons.

jackjack

Staves, on the other hand, are an awesome choice for sure.

Aerakar

Another vote for staves and I also like the Army Scythe. Plus no racial weapon bonuses for a 1/2 Elf, so you don't lose out on that by not picking long/short swords or bows like with the Elf.

Sounds like a fun character to roleplay! I like the fact that you chose 1/2 Elf. It is an (undeserving) unusual choice for a F/Th because of the better full Elf thieving bonuses and weapon bonuses.

But of course Viconia is motivation enough...

madmaximus

So far so good, I chalked up the loss of the weapon/thieving bonuses, and Keldorn (hurts) to gaining Viconia, more freedom when it comes to weapons, regenerating HP (20 CON), and not being a snooty pureblood.

madmaximus

In other news, dispel effects+potion of hill giant strength+triple back-stab damage=

unhappy Daevorn

Spaceman_Spiff

I too say definitely go the F/T. It is my second go-to class after F/M. Both are super OP by about mid-to-late game and are heaps of fun. One little trick I picked up over the years is that you should always try and give your thieves at least INT 13. That way they can use mage scrolls once they obtain UAI and self-buff, cast TimeStop and backstab everyone, cast Mislead and backstab everyone, cast Simulacrum and back-stab everyone... you get my drift...

madmaximus

I thought it the most intelligence you needed was 9 for scrolls?

Schneidend

Stalker. More interesting and more unique simply by virtue of not being a multi/dual-class munchkin.

Chippy

Back when the game was first released I played all the way through with a Stalker for roleplaying purposes, but the power gamer in me always knew they were weaker to Fighter/Thieves and Monks towards the end-game. I hated the idea of items making me more powerful, and the HLA's were the same all round.
I think ther should have been something unique to Stalkers (some would say all Rangers) that boosted them a bit, like a gradually more powerful familiar, or weapon. Unique just not cheesey. Or pointless, like the cloak of Montolio.

Gotural

But Stalkers can stack Hardiness+Armor of Faith+Defender of Easthaven to reach 85% physical damage resistances and any character who can get 80%+ DR (Barbarians and so forth) is incredibly OP anyway.

Rangers rejoice!

JuliusBorisov

Gotural said:

But Stalkers can stack Hardiness+Armor of Faith+Defender of Easthaven to reach 85% physical damage resistances and any character who can get 80%+ DR (Barbarians and so forth) is incredibly OP anyway.

Rangers rejoice!

Gotural said:

Hardiness+Defender of Easthaven

Not in BGEE or SoD, though...

ValamirCleaver

I realize this is an old thread, but a suit of Elven Chain woks great on Fighter/Thief and it will allow you to use your thieving abilities without having to switch it out first.

If you really want to power game & don't mind the reputation hit you can relieve a certain Drow NPC of his suit of +4 Mithril Chain after encountering him by the lake fighting gnolls, he also has a nice pair of magic Scimitars too. The Mithril Chain also allows you to use your thieving abilities without having to switch it out first.

JuliusBorisov

ValamirCleaver said:

I realize this is an old thread, but a suit of Elven Chain woks great on Fighter/Thief and it will allow you to use your thieving abilities without having to switch it out first.

If you really want to power game & don't mind the reputation hit you can relieve a certain Drow NPC of his suit of +4 Mithril Chain after encountering him by the lake fighting gnolls, he also has a nice pair of magic Scimitars too. The Mithril Chain also allows you to use your thieving abilities without having to switch it out first.

You have to remember that you can't wear the Elven Chain that is not from the Dorn's quest with rings/cloaks/amulets of protection (+1/+2). Meanwhile, the Elven Chain from the Dorn's quest can be equipped with those items, and with +2 version of them you get only +1 AC worse (if compared to the Chain mentioned in the spoiler), but there're added thieving penalties, although it will still help you not to switch an armor. And saving throws are better than 1 point of AC.

I've learned that the Elven Chain from the Dorn's quest works even better on a FMT.

ValamirCleaver

bengoshi said:

You have to remember that you can't wear the Elven Chain that is not from the Dorn's quest with rings/cloaks/amulets of protection (+1/+2).

I suppose that's true. It didn't occur to me because usually Rings of Regeneration & Free Action, an Amulet of Power and a Cloak of Elvenkind are equipped with the Mithral Chain.

madmaximus

I have been utilizing the Shadow armour, due to its stealth bonuses my character being my main thief and having to spend a good deal of points on lockpick, and detect trap.

Lateralus

madmaximus said:

So I rolled a fighter/thief (my first ever non pure class character) to take through BG:EE into SOD and then BG2:EE. Maybe i am so used to Paladins but I didn't expect him to be so squishy, and to be more effective at chunking folks. I am still getting the thieving skills out of him of course. And I imagine rogue HLA's (spike trap, UAI) will end up with the fighter/thief on top. Just wondering If you guys had any comments on who is a better killer, F/T or Stalker? not too late for me to restart and keep Imoen around.

No thief class or combo will ever be as good as a Stalker as far as HITTING goes, but this is not the most important thing to consider because back stabbing grants a +4 bonus to the roll. The only reason why I wont use the Stalker kit is because of the armor. Fighter/Thieves can do so much more. You can detect illusion and traps while still wearing full plate, and even set traps. So they can tank and dispel illusionary magic at the same time. This is a roll I like to play with a supporting party of spell casters who can cast invisibility so you can backstab in full plate and then use an item or potion to turn invisible again if you want. If I find a trap or a lock I call up the back up rogue to deal with it.

Aerakar

I enjoy the Stalker for flavor and if I want to play more of a warrior-commando kind of character and not become frustrated with the XP split. But even then F/Th is better at that role and what I normally revert to.

ValamirCleaver

ValamirCleaver said:

It didn't occur to me because usually Rings of Regeneration & Free Action, an Amulet of Power and a Cloak of Elvenkind are equipped with the Mithral Chain.

I forgot to mention that this combination works extremely well with a half-elven Fighter/Mage/Thief, the magical Mithral Chain allows a half-elf to still use both thieving abilities & cast Wizard spells.

The Vocalization power of the Amulet means that one can still cast spells irregardless of Silence effects. Kit this up with Paws of the Cheetah, Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization & a Composite Long Bow (preferably Tarlash or Tasheron's) means that you will be doing very well.

Just set the character AI default to search and turn auto-pause on so you don't stumble into traps nor are surprised by enemies.

madmaximus

Thanks for the info guys. Now if only SOD will come out so I can finish Durlags tower with all that wonderful XP i usually miss out on.

GreenWarlock

Does the elven chain offer a significant benefit over robe of the archmage, other than flavor? I thought they were about the same AC, and RotAM came with bonus magic resistance?