Multiclassed Shorty Thief Guide
Cactus
Member Posts: 152
A note on progress: The part about BG:EE is almost done, and BG2:EE is on its way. Inputs are most welcome 
This is ment to be a guide on how to make great shorty multiclassed thieves. Halflings, Gnomes and Dwarfs can all choose Fighter/Thief, the Gnome can also choose the caster classes Illusionist/Thief and Cleric/Thief. This guide will focus on how to make the most of your thief-part, by using the abilities from the multiclassed option.
Generel Thief Tactics
A thief is in generel a poor frontline fighter. Their strength is rather a tactical/ supportive, favoring a hit'n'run strategy. Thieves can hide in shadows (this should be taking literally, your chance of hiding increase by standing in a shadow), a useful skill in order to scout an area. They can find and remove traps, open locks, pick pockets and detect illusions. They can be deadly in combat as well, if you use the right tactics:
Traps
Traps or snares are just great. You lay them out of enemy sight, then attack and kite the enemy into the trapped area. Or lay them before an enemy who has not yet turned hostile. When the enemy enters the trapped area, the traps explodes, harming all hostile creatures in range. Traps ignore AC and saving throws. You gain 1×snare/day every 5 lvl, starting at lvl 1. An area can contain a maximum of 7 snares. If you rest in the wild, set up a snare before sleeping. It is effective against enemies, who dare to disturb your sleep.
Level 1-10: 2D8+5 Missile DMG
Level 11-15: 2D8+5 Missile DMG + 2D6 Poison DMG/round for the next 3 rounds
Level 16-20: 3D8+5 Missile DMG + 4D8+2 Fire DMG
Level 21+: 3D8+5 Missile DMG + 20 Poison, and instantly slays the victim if they fail to Save vs. Death with a -4 bonus
Backstab
Backstab is a one-hit-you-die tactic. After a succesful backstab, the thief will typically run away, either to kite enemies into traps, hide again and repeat, or to participate in the rest of a battle as a ranged fighter.
Ranged
Whenever your thief has finished doing what he do best, assume the role of an archer. Or stand back and use wand to turn the battle.
Notable tactical items
- Boots of the Cheetah (increase your speed, helps hit'n'run tactics)
- Cloak of non-detection (stay hidden!)
- Ring of Invisibility
- Potion of Invisibility (makes you disappear, giving you a chance to escape or do a second backstab)
Thieving Skills
Halfling is the king af raw Thieving Skills. Race bonus + 19 dex gives you a totalt of 170 points. Gnomes are second best, with racials bonus + 18 dex you get a total of 140 points, while Dwarves with racial bonus + 17 dex have a 110 points. Upon creation you get to distribute another 40 points. You get +25 points/lvl, which means a lvl 3 Dwarf is a slightly lesser Thief than a lvl 2 Gnome, which is in turn a slightly lesser Thief than a lvl 1 Halfling.
Halfling
Open Locks: 35, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 35, Move Silently: 35, HiS: 35, Detect Illusion: 0 Set Traps: 10
Gnome
Open Locks: 30, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 25, Move Silently: 25, HiS: 20, Detect Illusion: 10 Set Traps: 10
Dwarf
Open Locks: 30, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 20, Move Silently: 15, HiS: 10, Detect Illusion: 5 Set Traps: 10
My way of distributing points: Pump the first points into Open Locks, upon lvl up put the points into Find Traps. When you have around 70 in those two, put the next points in either HiS or Set Traps, depending on your preferred strategy. Then go back, pump Open Locks and Find Traps to 90 each (enough for BG:EE). Distribute the rest into either Set Traps or HiS/Move Silently.
Pick Pockets: I usually neglect it. There are some nice stuff in some pockets, but it is not essencial.
Detect Illusion: Is a REALLY good skill in BG2:EE, as it dispels all enemy illusion, and can be used as often as you like. In BG:EE it is really not nessesary and you can always drink a potion. Some items ARE worth pickpocketing:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/8915/notable-pickpockets-spoilers
Some neglect Open Locks, because many locks can be either forced open, and all can be opened by the lvl2 mage spell Knock. But Open Locks can be used as often you like, without having to rest in between, so I really prefer to have it.
Items to increase thieving skills
Worn Wispers (boots): +35 HiS
Shadow Armor (Studded Leather Armor +3) +15 HiS
Potion of Master Thievery (3 hours): +40 in Open Locks & Pick Pockets
Potion of Perception (6 hours): +20 in Find Traps, Open Locks, PP & HiS
Potions of Mind Focusing (12 hours): + 3 DEX, +3 INT. The DEX bonus increase thieving skills.
Backstab
Choosing target
Mages make most excellent targets: They have low HP and high AC, and they most often die after one hit. A mage that has the chance to cast spells before you kill him, will be a much more fearsome opponent. Mages don't wear helmets, so you have a chance of dealing critical hits.
Archers standing in a group togheter are another good target. You take one down, and force the rest into melee. They tend to be dealing much less damage in melee.
Basically any opponen that will be death or near death after backstab. This also mean powerfull foes in late battle, that just need a last strike.
Immune Targets
Some targets (mainly in BG2:EE) are immune to backstab. Among them, some bosses, and most demons/devils, golems, oozes, dragons and beholders.
To Hit
Any attack made from shadows or invisible adds a +4 to your normal chance to hit. This means the Gnome and Dwarf has an advantage ovet the halfling: A flat 17 or 18 STR gives +1 to hit, while 19 STR gives +3 to hit. But even the Thac0 of a Halfling Fighter/Thief becomes better than a pure thief with 19 STR.
Damage
In order to backstab you have to be behind the target. Backstab multiply the DMG accordig to your thief level:
Level 1-4:X2
Level 5-8:X3
Level 9-12:X4
Level 13+:X5
Backstab damage is calculated this way:
((Base damage + Proficiency bonus + item bonus, bard song etc) x backstabbing multiplier + strength bonus ) x critical hit + additional weapon damage.
This means the STR bonus isn't multiplied, making the difference between 18 and 19 STR less significant. One could say that the backstabbing Halfling fighter/thief is good, but the Dwarf and Gnome amazing! But even with the Halfling, there is enough ways to compensate for your STR.
Notable Melee/Backstab Weapons
Daggers:
- Silver Dagger - Werebane
DMG 2-5, THACO +1, THACO +4 Dam +4 vs Lycanthropes
- Dagger of Venom
DMG 3-6, THACO +2, 6 poison dam. per round
- Dagger +2, Longtooth
DMG 3-8, THACO +2
Clubs: (useable by Cleric/Thief)
- Club +1, +3 vs Unnatural Creatures
DMG 2-7, THACO +1, THACO +3 Dam +3 vs Unnatural Creatures
- Night Club +1 club with Thac0 +1, +2 at night
- Mighty Oak +2
Staffs: (useable by Cleric/Thief)
- Quarter Staff +3
DMG 4-9, THACO: +3
- Staff Mace (one handed)
DMG 4-10, THACO: +2
- Staff Spear +2,
DMG 4-11, THACO: +2
- Staff of Striking
DMG 10-15, THACO +3, each attack uses a charge
Longswords:
- Long Sword +1, Flame Tongue
DMG 2-9, THACO +1, +2 vs Regenerating, +3 vs Cold-Using, +4 vs Undead
- Long Sword +2, Vascona
DMG 3-10, THACO +2, +1 Cold DMG
- Harrower (+1 longsword which is +3 vs undead)
Short Swords:
- Short Sword +2
3-8, THACO +2
- Short Sword of Backstabbing
DMG 4-9, THACO +3
Scimitars:
-Scimitar +2:
DMG 3-10, THACO +2
-Scimitar +3, Frostbrand:
DMG 4-11, THACO +3
-Scimitar +5, Defender
DMG 4-11, THACO +3, +2 AC
Ranged attacks
If not backstabbing, setting or removing traps, you fighter/thief is good at dealing ranged damage. Which race is better depends on your weapon of choice. The calculations beneath is based Halfling having STR 18 and DEX 20, while Gnome and Dwarf are having STR 19 and DEX 19/18.
Bows, Crossbows, Darts: Halfling get +1 THAC0 compared to the other races.
Sling: Halfling get a +2 THAC0 over the other races, due to DEX bonus and Halfling bonus with sling. Gnomes and Dwarfs on the other hand get DMG bonus from their STR, which is +5 DMG compared to halfling.
Throwing Daggers and Axes: Gnomes and Dwarfs are king, since to hit is determined both by DEX and STR, which means they gets +1 more than Halflings. On top they get the +5 DMG. Auch!
Notable Ranged Weapons
Longbows: (only Fighter/Thief)
- Composite Long Bow+1 (+2 THAC0, +3 DMG)
- Long Bow of Marksmanship (+3 THAC0, +2 DMG)
Shortbow:
- Eagle Bow (+2 THAC0, +2 DMG)
Bows have the greatest variety of magically enhanced arrows, making bows a real solid choice.
Heavy Crossbow: (only Fighter/Thief)
- Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy (+5 THAC0, +2 DMG)
Light Crossbow:
- Light Crossbow of Speed (+1 THAC0, +1 DMG, +1 attack/round)
Crossbows shoots bolts. They come in less variety than arrows, but are still good, and in plenty surply. You can get bolt of biting or lightning DMG.
Sling: (useable by Cleric/Thief)
- Sling + 3 (+3 THAC0, +3 DMG)
- Sling of Unerring Accuracy (+2 THAC0)
Slings throw bullets, bullets come with electricity/fire/ice DMG.
Axe: (only Fighter/Thief)
- Throwing Axe +2 (+2 THAC0, return to user)
Note that non-returning axes are heavy to carry and not really recommendable.
Darts: No returning darts, but Darts of Wounding and Darts of Stunning are great. Dart come with acid/fire/ice DMG. Darts are fast, 3 APR. This also means they can be a pain to manage, and you run out quickly.
Daggers: Daggers do a lot of damage/round. Sadly there is no returning daggers, and no magical ones. Daggers are heavy to carry, and can be a pain to manage. Still not a bad choice as a secondary ranged weapon.
Items to increase stats
Buckley's Buckler (Buckler +1 AC),+1 CON.
The Brawling Hands (Gauntlets) sets DEX to 18
Girdle of Hill Giant Strength, sets STR to 19, and INT to 6
Gauntlets of Ogre Power, sets STR to 18/00
Kiel's Buckler +1 DEX
Algernon's Cloak +2 CHA
Nymph Cloak +2 CHA
Tomes add permanent stat increase: +1STR, +1DEX, +1CON, +1INT, +3WIS, +1CHA.
Potions increasing STR are quite common. The same goes for potions increasing AC.
Other useful items
- The Claw of Kazgaroth (cursed): +1 to AC, +4 Missile AC. +3 save vs. Wands, Breath, Spells and Polymorph. -2 CON and -4 save vs. Death. Note: The CON penalty seems hard, but the shorty saves appear to be calculated from the base CON, so the Claw will not affect them.
- Elven Chain Mail: AC 5. Allow using thieving skills and cast spells while wearing. Lockpicking and Find Traps - 5%, HiS -10% and PP -20% .
Level Caps
BG:EE
The xp cap of BG:EE is 161.000, equivalent to thief lvl 10, fighter lvl 8, cleric lvl 8, illusionist lvl 9.
Multiclasses will naturally have to split xp in two, equivalent to fighter(7)/thief(8), cleric(7)/thief(8) and illusionist(7)/thief(8).
Siege of Dragonspear
*coming up*
BG2:EE
The xp cap is 8 mill., equivalent to thief lvl 40, fighter lvl 40, cleric lvl 40, illusionist lvl 31.
Multiclasses will naturally have to split xp in two, equivalent to fighter(24)/thief(28), cleric(25)/thief(28) and illusionist(20)/thief(28).
BG2:EE
Thief tactics in BG2:EE are much the same. Your traps get stronger, more enemies are immune to backstab, and ranged attacks does rule the day a little less. Eventually you get High Level Abilities, noteable the ability Use Any Item, that allows your thief to cast spells from scrolls, use any equipment etc.
BG2EE Ranged Weapons
Longbows SoA:
- Elven Court Bow +3 (+4 Thac0)
- Mana Bow +4 (+4 THACO, +20% to resist magical damage)
- Ripper +2 (+2 DMG, +2 Thac0)
- Strong Arm +2 (+3 DMG, +3 Thac0)
- Heartseeker +3 (+2 Thac0, +7 THACO for 9 seconds once per day)
Longbows ToB:
- Long Bow +3 (+3 Thac0)
- Taralash +4 (+4 Thac0, increases movement rate by 2)
- Taralash +5 (+5 Thac0, increases movement rate by 2)
- Composite Long Bow +3 (+1 DMG, +4 Thac0)
Shortbows SoA:
- Tuigan Bow +1 (+1 DMG, +1 Thac0, 3 APR)
- Short Bow of Gesen (+1-8 electrical damage, +4 THACO, no ammunition required, 20% elec. Res.)
- Tansheron's Bow +3 (+3 Thac0, requires no amunition )
Shortbows ToB:
- Short Bow +3 (+3 Thac0)
Heavy Crossbow SoA:
- Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy (+ 2 DMG, +5 Thac0)
- Heavy Crossbow of Searing+1 (+ 1 DMG, +1 Thac0, +2 fire damage )
- Giant Hair Crossbow +3 (+ 5 DMG, +3 Thac0)
Heavy Crossbow ToB:
- Heavy Crossbow +3 (+ 5 DMG, +3 Thac0)
Light Crossbow SoA:
- Necaradan's Crossbow +3 (+ 3 DMG, +3 Thac0)
- Drow Crossbow of Speed (+ 3 DMG, +3 Thac0, +1 APR, dissolves if removed from Underdark)
Light Crossbow ToB:
- Light Crossbow +3 (+ 3 DMG, +3 Thac0)
- Firetooth +4 (5-12 DMG, +6 Thac0, +2 fire dam., automatically fires +2 Fire Bolts)
- Firetooth +5 (6-13 DMG, +7 Thac0, +2 fire dam., automatically fires +2 Fire Bolts)
Slings SoA:
- Lupine's Sling +2 (15% chance of inflicting disease on hit)
- Wild Sling +1 (Target must save vs spell or 100% chance for wild surge on any spells cast next round)
- Sling +3, Arla's Dragonbane (+ 3 DMG, +3 Thac0)
- Sling of Arvoreen +4 (+ 4 DMG, +4 Thac0, stun all creatures in area once per day)
Sling ToB:
- Erinne Sling +4 (+ 4 DMG, +4 Thac0 creates 5 Bullets +4 once/day )
Returning Axes SoA:
- Azuredge (1-6 DMG, +4 DMG vs undead, undead must save or be destroyed)
- Hangard's Axe +2 (3-8 DMG, +2 Thac0)
- Rifthome Axe +3 (4-9 DMG, +3 Thac0)
Non-returning Darts SoA:
- Asp's Nest (2-4 DMG, +1 Thac0, poisons target - 1 HP damage every 3 seconds for 40 total damage)
- Dart +5 (6-8 DMG, created by the Cloak of Stars and last 24 hours)
Returning Dart ToB:
- Crimson Dart +3 (4-6 DMG, +3 Thac0)
Returning Dagger SoA:
- Fire Tooth +3 (5-11DMG, +3 Thac0, 1-2 fire damage)
BG2:EE weapons and items
*missing*
Thief HLAs
When you have 3mill+ and gain a lvl, you get your first HLA. Since multiclasses level up more times, they get more HLAs than pure classes.
Alchemy
1xday randomly creates a potion: Master Thievery, Perception, Extra Healing, Superior Healing,
Regeneration, Antidote, Speed, Frost Giant Strength.
Assassination
The DMG of every attack in the next round is enhanced by the backstab modifier. Pure awesome combined with Haste, amd anything that gives more APR (fighter/thief rules the day). You don't get the +4 to Hit of a normal backstab.
Avoid Death
+20 HP and +5 bonus to Save vs. Death, immune to Death Magic for 5 rounds. Can be a life saver.
Evasion
+4 bonus to AC, +2 bonus to saving throws for 3 rounds. Take it only to get Greater Evasion.
Greater Evasion (needs Evasion)
+6 bonus to AC, +3 bonus to saving throws, +2 to movement, and immunity to normal missiles for 5 rounds. This is much more useful!
Scribe Scrolls (needs Use Any Item)
1xday randomly creates a scroll: Magic Missile, Haste, Fireball, Dispel Magic,
Dire Charm, Invisibility, Cone of Cold, Monster Summoning II, Monster
Summoning III. Do you really need those scrolls?
Exploding Trap
Explodes like a fireball 10d6 DMG to enemies (Save vs. Spells for half) and hurls enemies away. Enemies away buys you time to hide, set more traps etc.
Spike Trap
Deals 20d6 DMG to enemies (no save). Use it just like a normal trap dealing massive DMG.
Time Trap
Time Stop 10 seconds. Use the time to deal DMG, set more traps, cast spells, Assassinate/Backstab (all attacks in Time Stop are automatic successes).
Use Any Item
Take it! You can use any item regardless of class restrictions. Fighter/theives and cleric/thieves can use mage scrolls, illusionist/thieves can wear helmets and shields. Personal items are an exception.
Fighter/Theif
The Fighter/Thief is better than a pure thief. You loose a few levels of thieving skills, but this is no big deal. The fighter part adds Thac0, APR, improved saving throws (stacks with your shorty saves) and HP. You can specialize in all weapons (but only backstab with weapons allowed by a pure thief), and you get more profficiency points. You can even wear heavy armor, and act like a fighter if needed. Acces to shields and helmets are another plus.
Race and Stats
All 3 races are good, with 18 CON they all get save vs. wand and spell +5 (~25% less likely to loose a saving throw), and Dwarves and Halfling also got save vs death +5. They are all superior in some aspects, so the better race depends on your style. Halflings are more the sneaky thief/archer type, Dwarfs are more combat oriented, while Gnomes have neither of the downsides, but looses save vs death.
STR: Dwarves & Gnomes: 18/51. Halflings 17.
DEX: Dwarf: 17, Gnome 18, Halfling 19.*
CON: Gnome and Halfings: 18. Dwarf: 19.
INT: 9**
WIS: ? ***
CHA: ? ***
* This means an initial Dwarf -3 AC adjustment, and Gnomes & Halflings -4 AC adjustment. Ranged THAC0 Dwarfs + 1, and Halfling & Gnome +2. You'll get a tome to give a permanent +1 DEX, Then all get -4 AC adjustment, and Ranged THAC0 Dwarfs & Gnomes get +2, and Halfling +3.
** 9 is needed in order to use wands
*** WIS needs to be 9 if you plan on using cleric scrolls and wands in late BG2:EE. If not ignore WIS. Whatever is left gets into CHA.
Proficiency points
Since you are part fighter, you can equip any weapon, and specialize (**) in any weapon. But you can only backstab with weapons allowed by the thief class. I find that bows, long swords and staffs are a solid choice all way through BG:EE, good early and good later. You got 4 points to begin with, and another two during lvl up in BG:EE.
I'll go through the best available weapons for backstabbing and ranged attacks, but I'll not telling you only this or only that. You got 4 **** point to distribute in the beginning. There different good good ways to do it:
A:
** Ranged weapon of choice
** Melee weapon of choice
B:
** Ranged or Melee weapon of choice
* Secondary weapon
* Secondary weapon or fighting style
C: (More fighter oriented)
** Melee weapon of choice (Scimitars are excellent, if you go kill Drizzt)
** Dual-wield
The least recommendable weapons for primary use
- Magical Clubs are very scarce, and even the best are not very good.
- Thrown Daggers can be a pain to manage, there is no returning daggers, and they are heavy to carry.
- Thrown Axes are also a pain early on, until you get a returning one (so don't use the first 4 points on this one.).
- There is only a single +1 Katana.
- Daggers (melee) are not at all great damage dealers, but the Dagger of Venom can be interesting anyway.
Additional Fighter/Thief tactics (BG:EE)
A fighter/thief is just like a thief with better combat abilities, and with better equipment. You cannot use thief abilities while wearing armor heavier than studded leather. In early BG:EE you will have a much easier time just acting like a fighter until you gain more thief lvls.
Notable items specific for a Fighter/Thief
-Helmets
-Heavy armor
-Shields
-Potion only useable by fighters
-Weapons
Additional Fighter/Thief tactics & HLA (BG2:EE)
F/T tactics in BG2:EE is pretty straigth forward. You do the same as in BG:EE, you just get better at it. Getting HLAs makes your F/T shine; Time Trap combined with fighting skills is just great, combining it with the HLAs Whirlwind Attack and Improved Whirlwind Attack is a pure awesome. I would only spend points in those two plus Hardiness.
Recommended:
Whirlwind Attack
10 APR, -4 THAC0 for one round. Note that all attacks in Time Stop are automatic successes, so this can be combined with Time Trap, making this extra potent in the hand of a Fighter/thief. Take once to get the improved version.
Improved Whirlwind Attack
10 APR for one round. Great for all the same reasons as Whirlwind Attack!
Hardiness
+40% resistance to all physical damage, last 1 round/2lvl of the warrior. It stacks with any other resistances, great when your F/T decides to act like a frontline warrior.
Not Recommended:
Deathblow and Greater Deathblow
Instantly slays any creature struck under level 10/12. Lasts 2 rounds. However creatures under lvl 12 is hardly a thread... Skip it!
Resist Magic
Magic resistance set to 50% fir 4 rounds. Only useful if you do not already have 50% magic resistance or more.
Power Attack
A struck opponent must save vs death at a -4 penalty or be stunned for 2 rounds. Ability stays active for 2 rounds. May be taken multiple times. Prerequisite for Critical Strike. But if you want someting to stop moving, take Time Trap.
Critical Strike
All attack for one round is critical, this means all hit. Combine with haste for more APR. Prerequisite for Smite. Honestly, I prefer Assasination even though it doesn't guarantee a hit, but you do more DMG with it...
Smite
All attacks for 2 rounds stun and knock back medium-sized creature or smaller. All attacks for the first round are critical hits. I would skip it, and take more Time Traps or Exploding Traps instead.
War Cry
Enemies within 30 feet must save vs. spell or panic. This is basically the same as lvl2 mage spell Horror, skip it.
This is ment to be a guide on how to make great shorty multiclassed thieves. Halflings, Gnomes and Dwarfs can all choose Fighter/Thief, the Gnome can also choose the caster classes Illusionist/Thief and Cleric/Thief. This guide will focus on how to make the most of your thief-part, by using the abilities from the multiclassed option.
Generel Thief Tactics
A thief is in generel a poor frontline fighter. Their strength is rather a tactical/ supportive, favoring a hit'n'run strategy. Thieves can hide in shadows (this should be taking literally, your chance of hiding increase by standing in a shadow), a useful skill in order to scout an area. They can find and remove traps, open locks, pick pockets and detect illusions. They can be deadly in combat as well, if you use the right tactics:
Traps
Traps or snares are just great. You lay them out of enemy sight, then attack and kite the enemy into the trapped area. Or lay them before an enemy who has not yet turned hostile. When the enemy enters the trapped area, the traps explodes, harming all hostile creatures in range. Traps ignore AC and saving throws. You gain 1×snare/day every 5 lvl, starting at lvl 1. An area can contain a maximum of 7 snares. If you rest in the wild, set up a snare before sleeping. It is effective against enemies, who dare to disturb your sleep.
Level 1-10: 2D8+5 Missile DMG
Level 11-15: 2D8+5 Missile DMG + 2D6 Poison DMG/round for the next 3 rounds
Level 16-20: 3D8+5 Missile DMG + 4D8+2 Fire DMG
Level 21+: 3D8+5 Missile DMG + 20 Poison, and instantly slays the victim if they fail to Save vs. Death with a -4 bonus
Backstab
Backstab is a one-hit-you-die tactic. After a succesful backstab, the thief will typically run away, either to kite enemies into traps, hide again and repeat, or to participate in the rest of a battle as a ranged fighter.
Ranged
Whenever your thief has finished doing what he do best, assume the role of an archer. Or stand back and use wand to turn the battle.
Notable tactical items
- Boots of the Cheetah (increase your speed, helps hit'n'run tactics)
- Cloak of non-detection (stay hidden!)
- Ring of Invisibility
- Potion of Invisibility (makes you disappear, giving you a chance to escape or do a second backstab)
Thieving Skills
Halfling is the king af raw Thieving Skills. Race bonus + 19 dex gives you a totalt of 170 points. Gnomes are second best, with racials bonus + 18 dex you get a total of 140 points, while Dwarves with racial bonus + 17 dex have a 110 points. Upon creation you get to distribute another 40 points. You get +25 points/lvl, which means a lvl 3 Dwarf is a slightly lesser Thief than a lvl 2 Gnome, which is in turn a slightly lesser Thief than a lvl 1 Halfling.
Halfling
Open Locks: 35, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 35, Move Silently: 35, HiS: 35, Detect Illusion: 0 Set Traps: 10
Gnome
Open Locks: 30, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 25, Move Silently: 25, HiS: 20, Detect Illusion: 10 Set Traps: 10
Dwarf
Open Locks: 30, Find Traps: 20, Pick Pocket: 20, Move Silently: 15, HiS: 10, Detect Illusion: 5 Set Traps: 10
My way of distributing points: Pump the first points into Open Locks, upon lvl up put the points into Find Traps. When you have around 70 in those two, put the next points in either HiS or Set Traps, depending on your preferred strategy. Then go back, pump Open Locks and Find Traps to 90 each (enough for BG:EE). Distribute the rest into either Set Traps or HiS/Move Silently.
Pick Pockets: I usually neglect it. There are some nice stuff in some pockets, but it is not essencial.
Detect Illusion: Is a REALLY good skill in BG2:EE, as it dispels all enemy illusion, and can be used as often as you like. In BG:EE it is really not nessesary and you can always drink a potion. Some items ARE worth pickpocketing:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/8915/notable-pickpockets-spoilers
Some neglect Open Locks, because many locks can be either forced open, and all can be opened by the lvl2 mage spell Knock. But Open Locks can be used as often you like, without having to rest in between, so I really prefer to have it.
Items to increase thieving skills
Worn Wispers (boots): +35 HiS
Shadow Armor (Studded Leather Armor +3) +15 HiS
Potion of Master Thievery (3 hours): +40 in Open Locks & Pick Pockets
Potion of Perception (6 hours): +20 in Find Traps, Open Locks, PP & HiS
Potions of Mind Focusing (12 hours): + 3 DEX, +3 INT. The DEX bonus increase thieving skills.
Backstab
Choosing target
Mages make most excellent targets: They have low HP and high AC, and they most often die after one hit. A mage that has the chance to cast spells before you kill him, will be a much more fearsome opponent. Mages don't wear helmets, so you have a chance of dealing critical hits.
Archers standing in a group togheter are another good target. You take one down, and force the rest into melee. They tend to be dealing much less damage in melee.
Basically any opponen that will be death or near death after backstab. This also mean powerfull foes in late battle, that just need a last strike.
Immune Targets
Some targets (mainly in BG2:EE) are immune to backstab. Among them, some bosses, and most demons/devils, golems, oozes, dragons and beholders.
To Hit
Any attack made from shadows or invisible adds a +4 to your normal chance to hit. This means the Gnome and Dwarf has an advantage ovet the halfling: A flat 17 or 18 STR gives +1 to hit, while 19 STR gives +3 to hit. But even the Thac0 of a Halfling Fighter/Thief becomes better than a pure thief with 19 STR.
Damage
In order to backstab you have to be behind the target. Backstab multiply the DMG accordig to your thief level:
Level 1-4:X2
Level 5-8:X3
Level 9-12:X4
Level 13+:X5
Backstab damage is calculated this way:
((Base damage + Proficiency bonus + item bonus, bard song etc) x backstabbing multiplier + strength bonus ) x critical hit + additional weapon damage.
This means the STR bonus isn't multiplied, making the difference between 18 and 19 STR less significant. One could say that the backstabbing Halfling fighter/thief is good, but the Dwarf and Gnome amazing! But even with the Halfling, there is enough ways to compensate for your STR.
Notable Melee/Backstab Weapons
Daggers:
- Silver Dagger - Werebane
DMG 2-5, THACO +1, THACO +4 Dam +4 vs Lycanthropes
- Dagger of Venom
DMG 3-6, THACO +2, 6 poison dam. per round
- Dagger +2, Longtooth
DMG 3-8, THACO +2
Clubs: (useable by Cleric/Thief)
- Club +1, +3 vs Unnatural Creatures
DMG 2-7, THACO +1, THACO +3 Dam +3 vs Unnatural Creatures
- Night Club +1 club with Thac0 +1, +2 at night
- Mighty Oak +2
Staffs: (useable by Cleric/Thief)
- Quarter Staff +3
DMG 4-9, THACO: +3
- Staff Mace (one handed)
DMG 4-10, THACO: +2
- Staff Spear +2,
DMG 4-11, THACO: +2
- Staff of Striking
DMG 10-15, THACO +3, each attack uses a charge
Longswords:
- Long Sword +1, Flame Tongue
DMG 2-9, THACO +1, +2 vs Regenerating, +3 vs Cold-Using, +4 vs Undead
- Long Sword +2, Vascona
DMG 3-10, THACO +2, +1 Cold DMG
- Harrower (+1 longsword which is +3 vs undead)
Short Swords:
- Short Sword +2
3-8, THACO +2
- Short Sword of Backstabbing
DMG 4-9, THACO +3
Scimitars:
-Scimitar +2:
DMG 3-10, THACO +2
-Scimitar +3, Frostbrand:
DMG 4-11, THACO +3
-Scimitar +5, Defender
DMG 4-11, THACO +3, +2 AC
Ranged attacks
If not backstabbing, setting or removing traps, you fighter/thief is good at dealing ranged damage. Which race is better depends on your weapon of choice. The calculations beneath is based Halfling having STR 18 and DEX 20, while Gnome and Dwarf are having STR 19 and DEX 19/18.
Bows, Crossbows, Darts: Halfling get +1 THAC0 compared to the other races.
Sling: Halfling get a +2 THAC0 over the other races, due to DEX bonus and Halfling bonus with sling. Gnomes and Dwarfs on the other hand get DMG bonus from their STR, which is +5 DMG compared to halfling.
Throwing Daggers and Axes: Gnomes and Dwarfs are king, since to hit is determined both by DEX and STR, which means they gets +1 more than Halflings. On top they get the +5 DMG. Auch!
Notable Ranged Weapons
Longbows: (only Fighter/Thief)
- Composite Long Bow+1 (+2 THAC0, +3 DMG)
- Long Bow of Marksmanship (+3 THAC0, +2 DMG)
Shortbow:
- Eagle Bow (+2 THAC0, +2 DMG)
Bows have the greatest variety of magically enhanced arrows, making bows a real solid choice.
Heavy Crossbow: (only Fighter/Thief)
- Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy (+5 THAC0, +2 DMG)
Light Crossbow:
- Light Crossbow of Speed (+1 THAC0, +1 DMG, +1 attack/round)
Crossbows shoots bolts. They come in less variety than arrows, but are still good, and in plenty surply. You can get bolt of biting or lightning DMG.
Sling: (useable by Cleric/Thief)
- Sling + 3 (+3 THAC0, +3 DMG)
- Sling of Unerring Accuracy (+2 THAC0)
Slings throw bullets, bullets come with electricity/fire/ice DMG.
Axe: (only Fighter/Thief)
- Throwing Axe +2 (+2 THAC0, return to user)
Note that non-returning axes are heavy to carry and not really recommendable.
Darts: No returning darts, but Darts of Wounding and Darts of Stunning are great. Dart come with acid/fire/ice DMG. Darts are fast, 3 APR. This also means they can be a pain to manage, and you run out quickly.
Daggers: Daggers do a lot of damage/round. Sadly there is no returning daggers, and no magical ones. Daggers are heavy to carry, and can be a pain to manage. Still not a bad choice as a secondary ranged weapon.
Items to increase stats
Buckley's Buckler (Buckler +1 AC),+1 CON.
The Brawling Hands (Gauntlets) sets DEX to 18
Girdle of Hill Giant Strength, sets STR to 19, and INT to 6
Gauntlets of Ogre Power, sets STR to 18/00
Kiel's Buckler +1 DEX
Algernon's Cloak +2 CHA
Nymph Cloak +2 CHA
Tomes add permanent stat increase: +1STR, +1DEX, +1CON, +1INT, +3WIS, +1CHA.
Potions increasing STR are quite common. The same goes for potions increasing AC.
Other useful items
- The Claw of Kazgaroth (cursed): +1 to AC, +4 Missile AC. +3 save vs. Wands, Breath, Spells and Polymorph. -2 CON and -4 save vs. Death. Note: The CON penalty seems hard, but the shorty saves appear to be calculated from the base CON, so the Claw will not affect them.
- Elven Chain Mail: AC 5. Allow using thieving skills and cast spells while wearing. Lockpicking and Find Traps - 5%, HiS -10% and PP -20% .
Level Caps
BG:EE
The xp cap of BG:EE is 161.000, equivalent to thief lvl 10, fighter lvl 8, cleric lvl 8, illusionist lvl 9.
Multiclasses will naturally have to split xp in two, equivalent to fighter(7)/thief(8), cleric(7)/thief(8) and illusionist(7)/thief(8).
Siege of Dragonspear
*coming up*
BG2:EE
The xp cap is 8 mill., equivalent to thief lvl 40, fighter lvl 40, cleric lvl 40, illusionist lvl 31.
Multiclasses will naturally have to split xp in two, equivalent to fighter(24)/thief(28), cleric(25)/thief(28) and illusionist(20)/thief(28).
BG2:EE
Thief tactics in BG2:EE are much the same. Your traps get stronger, more enemies are immune to backstab, and ranged attacks does rule the day a little less. Eventually you get High Level Abilities, noteable the ability Use Any Item, that allows your thief to cast spells from scrolls, use any equipment etc.
BG2EE Ranged Weapons
Longbows SoA:
- Elven Court Bow +3 (+4 Thac0)
- Mana Bow +4 (+4 THACO, +20% to resist magical damage)
- Ripper +2 (+2 DMG, +2 Thac0)
- Strong Arm +2 (+3 DMG, +3 Thac0)
- Heartseeker +3 (+2 Thac0, +7 THACO for 9 seconds once per day)
Longbows ToB:
- Long Bow +3 (+3 Thac0)
- Taralash +4 (+4 Thac0, increases movement rate by 2)
- Taralash +5 (+5 Thac0, increases movement rate by 2)
- Composite Long Bow +3 (+1 DMG, +4 Thac0)
Shortbows SoA:
- Tuigan Bow +1 (+1 DMG, +1 Thac0, 3 APR)
- Short Bow of Gesen (+1-8 electrical damage, +4 THACO, no ammunition required, 20% elec. Res.)
- Tansheron's Bow +3 (+3 Thac0, requires no amunition )
Shortbows ToB:
- Short Bow +3 (+3 Thac0)
Heavy Crossbow SoA:
- Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy (+ 2 DMG, +5 Thac0)
- Heavy Crossbow of Searing+1 (+ 1 DMG, +1 Thac0, +2 fire damage )
- Giant Hair Crossbow +3 (+ 5 DMG, +3 Thac0)
Heavy Crossbow ToB:
- Heavy Crossbow +3 (+ 5 DMG, +3 Thac0)
Light Crossbow SoA:
- Necaradan's Crossbow +3 (+ 3 DMG, +3 Thac0)
- Drow Crossbow of Speed (+ 3 DMG, +3 Thac0, +1 APR, dissolves if removed from Underdark)
Light Crossbow ToB:
- Light Crossbow +3 (+ 3 DMG, +3 Thac0)
- Firetooth +4 (5-12 DMG, +6 Thac0, +2 fire dam., automatically fires +2 Fire Bolts)
- Firetooth +5 (6-13 DMG, +7 Thac0, +2 fire dam., automatically fires +2 Fire Bolts)
Slings SoA:
- Lupine's Sling +2 (15% chance of inflicting disease on hit)
- Wild Sling +1 (Target must save vs spell or 100% chance for wild surge on any spells cast next round)
- Sling +3, Arla's Dragonbane (+ 3 DMG, +3 Thac0)
- Sling of Arvoreen +4 (+ 4 DMG, +4 Thac0, stun all creatures in area once per day)
Sling ToB:
- Erinne Sling +4 (+ 4 DMG, +4 Thac0 creates 5 Bullets +4 once/day )
Returning Axes SoA:
- Azuredge (1-6 DMG, +4 DMG vs undead, undead must save or be destroyed)
- Hangard's Axe +2 (3-8 DMG, +2 Thac0)
- Rifthome Axe +3 (4-9 DMG, +3 Thac0)
Non-returning Darts SoA:
- Asp's Nest (2-4 DMG, +1 Thac0, poisons target - 1 HP damage every 3 seconds for 40 total damage)
- Dart +5 (6-8 DMG, created by the Cloak of Stars and last 24 hours)
Returning Dart ToB:
- Crimson Dart +3 (4-6 DMG, +3 Thac0)
Returning Dagger SoA:
- Fire Tooth +3 (5-11DMG, +3 Thac0, 1-2 fire damage)
BG2:EE weapons and items
*missing*
Thief HLAs
When you have 3mill+ and gain a lvl, you get your first HLA. Since multiclasses level up more times, they get more HLAs than pure classes.
Alchemy
1xday randomly creates a potion: Master Thievery, Perception, Extra Healing, Superior Healing,
Regeneration, Antidote, Speed, Frost Giant Strength.
Assassination
The DMG of every attack in the next round is enhanced by the backstab modifier. Pure awesome combined with Haste, amd anything that gives more APR (fighter/thief rules the day). You don't get the +4 to Hit of a normal backstab.
Avoid Death
+20 HP and +5 bonus to Save vs. Death, immune to Death Magic for 5 rounds. Can be a life saver.
Evasion
+4 bonus to AC, +2 bonus to saving throws for 3 rounds. Take it only to get Greater Evasion.
Greater Evasion (needs Evasion)
+6 bonus to AC, +3 bonus to saving throws, +2 to movement, and immunity to normal missiles for 5 rounds. This is much more useful!
Scribe Scrolls (needs Use Any Item)
1xday randomly creates a scroll: Magic Missile, Haste, Fireball, Dispel Magic,
Dire Charm, Invisibility, Cone of Cold, Monster Summoning II, Monster
Summoning III. Do you really need those scrolls?
Exploding Trap
Explodes like a fireball 10d6 DMG to enemies (Save vs. Spells for half) and hurls enemies away. Enemies away buys you time to hide, set more traps etc.
Spike Trap
Deals 20d6 DMG to enemies (no save). Use it just like a normal trap dealing massive DMG.
Time Trap
Time Stop 10 seconds. Use the time to deal DMG, set more traps, cast spells, Assassinate/Backstab (all attacks in Time Stop are automatic successes).
Use Any Item
Take it! You can use any item regardless of class restrictions. Fighter/theives and cleric/thieves can use mage scrolls, illusionist/thieves can wear helmets and shields. Personal items are an exception.
Fighter/Theif
The Fighter/Thief is better than a pure thief. You loose a few levels of thieving skills, but this is no big deal. The fighter part adds Thac0, APR, improved saving throws (stacks with your shorty saves) and HP. You can specialize in all weapons (but only backstab with weapons allowed by a pure thief), and you get more profficiency points. You can even wear heavy armor, and act like a fighter if needed. Acces to shields and helmets are another plus.
Race and Stats
All 3 races are good, with 18 CON they all get save vs. wand and spell +5 (~25% less likely to loose a saving throw), and Dwarves and Halfling also got save vs death +5. They are all superior in some aspects, so the better race depends on your style. Halflings are more the sneaky thief/archer type, Dwarfs are more combat oriented, while Gnomes have neither of the downsides, but looses save vs death.
STR: Dwarves & Gnomes: 18/51. Halflings 17.
DEX: Dwarf: 17, Gnome 18, Halfling 19.*
CON: Gnome and Halfings: 18. Dwarf: 19.
INT: 9**
WIS: ? ***
CHA: ? ***
* This means an initial Dwarf -3 AC adjustment, and Gnomes & Halflings -4 AC adjustment. Ranged THAC0 Dwarfs + 1, and Halfling & Gnome +2. You'll get a tome to give a permanent +1 DEX, Then all get -4 AC adjustment, and Ranged THAC0 Dwarfs & Gnomes get +2, and Halfling +3.
** 9 is needed in order to use wands
*** WIS needs to be 9 if you plan on using cleric scrolls and wands in late BG2:EE. If not ignore WIS. Whatever is left gets into CHA.
Proficiency points
Since you are part fighter, you can equip any weapon, and specialize (**) in any weapon. But you can only backstab with weapons allowed by the thief class. I find that bows, long swords and staffs are a solid choice all way through BG:EE, good early and good later. You got 4 points to begin with, and another two during lvl up in BG:EE.
I'll go through the best available weapons for backstabbing and ranged attacks, but I'll not telling you only this or only that. You got 4 **** point to distribute in the beginning. There different good good ways to do it:
A:
** Ranged weapon of choice
** Melee weapon of choice
B:
** Ranged or Melee weapon of choice
* Secondary weapon
* Secondary weapon or fighting style
C: (More fighter oriented)
** Melee weapon of choice (Scimitars are excellent, if you go kill Drizzt)
** Dual-wield
The least recommendable weapons for primary use
- Magical Clubs are very scarce, and even the best are not very good.
- Thrown Daggers can be a pain to manage, there is no returning daggers, and they are heavy to carry.
- Thrown Axes are also a pain early on, until you get a returning one (so don't use the first 4 points on this one.).
- There is only a single +1 Katana.
- Daggers (melee) are not at all great damage dealers, but the Dagger of Venom can be interesting anyway.
Additional Fighter/Thief tactics (BG:EE)
A fighter/thief is just like a thief with better combat abilities, and with better equipment. You cannot use thief abilities while wearing armor heavier than studded leather. In early BG:EE you will have a much easier time just acting like a fighter until you gain more thief lvls.
Notable items specific for a Fighter/Thief
-Helmets
-Heavy armor
-Shields
-Potion only useable by fighters
-Weapons
Additional Fighter/Thief tactics & HLA (BG2:EE)
F/T tactics in BG2:EE is pretty straigth forward. You do the same as in BG:EE, you just get better at it. Getting HLAs makes your F/T shine; Time Trap combined with fighting skills is just great, combining it with the HLAs Whirlwind Attack and Improved Whirlwind Attack is a pure awesome. I would only spend points in those two plus Hardiness.
Recommended:
Whirlwind Attack
10 APR, -4 THAC0 for one round. Note that all attacks in Time Stop are automatic successes, so this can be combined with Time Trap, making this extra potent in the hand of a Fighter/thief. Take once to get the improved version.
Improved Whirlwind Attack
10 APR for one round. Great for all the same reasons as Whirlwind Attack!
Hardiness
+40% resistance to all physical damage, last 1 round/2lvl of the warrior. It stacks with any other resistances, great when your F/T decides to act like a frontline warrior.
Not Recommended:
Deathblow and Greater Deathblow
Instantly slays any creature struck under level 10/12. Lasts 2 rounds. However creatures under lvl 12 is hardly a thread... Skip it!
Resist Magic
Magic resistance set to 50% fir 4 rounds. Only useful if you do not already have 50% magic resistance or more.
Power Attack
A struck opponent must save vs death at a -4 penalty or be stunned for 2 rounds. Ability stays active for 2 rounds. May be taken multiple times. Prerequisite for Critical Strike. But if you want someting to stop moving, take Time Trap.
Critical Strike
All attack for one round is critical, this means all hit. Combine with haste for more APR. Prerequisite for Smite. Honestly, I prefer Assasination even though it doesn't guarantee a hit, but you do more DMG with it...
Smite
All attacks for 2 rounds stun and knock back medium-sized creature or smaller. All attacks for the first round are critical hits. I would skip it, and take more Time Traps or Exploding Traps instead.
War Cry
Enemies within 30 feet must save vs. spell or panic. This is basically the same as lvl2 mage spell Horror, skip it.
Post edited by Cactus on
13
Comments
Note that Strength has no influence on backstab. Here's the formula: ((Base damage + Proficiency bonus + item bonus, bard song etc) x backstabbing multiplier + strength bonus ) x critical hit + additional weapon damage.
And I agree with @PK2748 that Gnomes are also strong and a good middle-ground between the Dwarf f/t (a better fighter) and the Halfling f/t (a better thief) since they have better dex than the Dwarf but better strength than the Halfling (and over time I have come to the conclusion that the higher strength is more critical for a backstabbing thief). One negative with the Gnome is that they receive shorty saves on 2 saving throws instead of all 3 like the Dwarf and Halfling. They are better mechanical thieves just like Dwarves from their racial bonuses, while Halflings are the sneakers, at least for the first few levels before you build up whichever skill-set you prefer. I play my f/t characters as stealthy backstabbers and scouts, so I always focus first on stealth and the trap-finding skills, no matter my race.
I have lately switched to Dwarves for all of my thiefly needs from Halflings. One of these days though I want to try out a Gnomish cleric/thief. F/Ts are awesomely fun though, no matter the race.
(I like to tweak the game to allow for Halfling Cleric/Thieves because it seems like such a perfect combination.)
Agree on Halfling C/Th and Brandobaris, great combination! Good synergy with the Halfling sling bonus also.
Just a note : "Since multiclasses level up more times, they get more HLAs than pure classes."
This ain't true. If a singleclass Thief earns 440,000 xp he/she will get 2 more HLAs (two level ups).
If a multiclassed Fighter/Thief earns 440,000 xp he/she will actually get 220,000 xp in his/her Thief class, obtaining 1 HLA in the process while getting 220,000 xp in his/her Fighter class which isn't enough for a level up (250,000 xp is required to level up as a Fighter post level 9).
If the xp rate for gaining levels was perfectly linear, you'd be correct, but BG2 insists that characters not go past level 40 in any given class, and furthermore insists that they not hit level 40 until 8 million experience, which throws off the curve for Clerics and Thieves. Also, the way in which experience charts intersect and the rule that you start getting HLAs at 3 million xp sometimes benefits multiclasses over singleclasses. For instance, at 4 million XP a Thief has just gotten its fifth HLA (level 28), while a Fighter/Thief has 6 (16/19, or three from each). In fact, thanks to the F/T getting two HLAs right after hitting 3 million xp, I'm not sure there's a point where the singleclass Thief has more HLAs aside from a window between 6 and 7 million xp, though they often have equal numbers.
After a look at the progression charts at playithardcore.com
I get the same as Kaigen. I count 17 HLAs for pure class thief, while multiclassed thieves get 12 HLAs from the thief class + 11 fighter, 7 Illusionist or 11 cleric. Regarding the progress to get there Gotural may be right, but I have neither tested it nor started a lot of calculations.
That said, I played bg1 MANY more times than I played bg2, so any advice given regarding bg2 & ToB is a bit less tested and for a great part I also double check with the sites I linked to.
But my point still stands before 6,900,000 XP and for other classes aswell. The speed at which you are earning HLAs depends on the average of the XP requirement from your classes.
A Fighter/Thief will earn HLAs slightly slower than a Thief, but slightly faster than a Fighter.
A F/M/T will earn HLAs slightly slower than a Fighter, slower than a Thief, but faster than a Mage.
Etc.
Thanks for correcting me !
To stay on topic, I really really want to play a shorty Cleric/Thief, it seems so fun ! A very good utility class who can hold his own in fights. Also, in the "Items to increase thieving skills" category, you could add Potions of Mind Focusing, which give +3 Dex +3 Int for 12 hours, usually increasing your thieving skills by about 15. Their long duration make them pretty handy.
I tried counting at the progression chart, a thief 6.900.000XP has 16 HLAs, multiclassed got 9 HLAs from Thief + 8 from Fighter= 17 HLAs. 1st HLA is earned at hitting exactly 3.000.000XP, as fighter lvl up at 1.500.000XP, second HLA is at 3.080.000XP, as thief lvl up at 1.540.000XP. In comparison the pure thief get the first HLA at 3.080.000XP and the second at 3.300.000XP, so it looks like the the F/T both get more and faster HLA's?
Anyway it seems that for this precise multiclass (F/T) the difference is pretty negligible before level 39 because a Fighter need 250,000 XP per level up and the Thief need 220,000 XP, there isn't a big difference.
But the Mage needs 375,000 XP per level up for example, which is a steep increase. And in this case a Thief/Mage will have 8+5=13 HLAs at 6,380,000 XP.
In the end you are right, with the 8,000,000 XP cap, multiclasses Thieves will have more HLAs than singleclasses one because of the last level up which takes 1,700,000 XP.
On the weapons list for SOA, I think the Boomerang returning dagger (2-8, +2 dam, +2 THACO, ROF 2) is also worth mentioning, as well as the Light Crossbow of Speed (+1 THAC0, +1 dam, ROF 2). Daggers also benefit from strength bonuses to damage, making them great ranged weapons for high-strength thieves and F/Thieves.