Party Composition

craymond727

As I finish up my current playthrough of IWD, I've been struggling with finding a good fit for the last spot in my party. Here's what I have in mind right now:

Half-Orc Barbarian (F) - TWF- Flails
Human Monk (M)
Human Beserker->Druid (F)- Scimitars (TWF or S&S)
Elven Sorcerer (F)
Gnomish Cleric/Mage (M) - Staves & Slings
?

I would like some sort of Thief, but don't want to be too squishy, and I don't have a particular interest in backstabbing either. I might end up dropping the Barbarian for a paladin, because I haven't played through IWD with one yet, but is it necessarily worth it?

Grum

Paladins can be fun. They get their own OP sword and undead hunters can be boss.

Id make the switch

craymond727

In that case, would you recommend a Swashbuckler, perhaps, to handle the thieving duties? Is it worthwhile to dual to fighter at level 10 or 15, or to stay as a pure-class?

Grum

I prefer dialing swashies at lvl 5. With the girdle of gond you get 100 in both find traps and open locks...all you need from a thief. Then get 5 points in a missile weapon, enjoying the swashbuckler bonuses.

It gets you your thief back very quickly and stays useful all game.

craymond727

Is it worth it to choose a missile weapon other than a longbow? Nothing compares to the Messenger of Sseth besides Hammer: +4 in HoW, correct?

OlvynChuru

craymond727 said:

Is it worth it to choose a missile weapon other than a longbow? Nothing compares to the Messenger of Sseth besides Hammer: +4 in HoW, correct?

There's also the Repeater crossbow, which gets 3 attacks per round and has +5 damage and THAC0. I think it can be found in one of the containers behind Ilmadia but I'm not sure. It can also be worth using slings, throwing axes and throwing daggers for the strength bonus. Other than the Hammer longbow, the best ranged weapon in the game is probably the Lover throwing dagger.

bob_veng

drop the cleric/mage and make a swashie > cleric
and add an archer

Svar

craymond727 said:

In that case, would you recommend a Swashbuckler, perhaps, to handle the thieving duties? Is it worthwhile to dual to fighter at level 10 or 15, or to stay as a pure-class?

I second this. Swashbucklers are are great if you need someone with thieving skills who is a little tougher than regular thieves. You also look like you need another non-caster. I don't think you have to dualclass a swashbuckler, though, given the right equipment and stat roll.

Wowo

bob_veng said:

drop the cleric/mage and make a swashie > cleric
and add an archer

Don't do this, Swash -> cleric is not a good option except in a purposefully underpowered party.

I'd recommend going to level 10 on a Swash or even staying pure as besides traps and locks it is fun and useful to be able to detect illusion, set traps of your own (which increase in power at higher levels) and scout in a pinch.

I wouldn't recommend a monk. You're other characters are mostly all A-listers while the monk is more a C or a D. If you want to do a run through with a monk then I'd recommend to do it with similarly powerful characters. Maybe swap the monk for a paladin?

Overall I always recommend to do play throughs with 1 paladin, 1 Druid and 1 bard.

bob_veng

Swash cleric is god in iwd. Massive damage.

Grum

craymond727 said:

Is it worth it to choose a missile weapon other than a longbow? Nothing compares to the Messenger of Sseth besides Hammer: +4 in HoW, correct?

5apr with bows is annoying. It's godly powerful but ammunition is a headache.

The +2 throwing axe is a guaranteed find in dragon's eye. That is early enough to be worth planning a character around.

There is also a +4 throwing dagger...which is found so late in the game that it almost feels like an insult. "Here is a great utility item worth planning a character around! You get to use it for...one fight."

I'd recommend using the throwing axe. Because nothing is as sad as an archer who runs out of arrows half way down dragon's eye with no merchants in sight.

bob_veng

Grum said:

5apr with bows is annoying. It's godly powerful but ammunition is a headache.

just buy a ton of normal arrows, i don't see why's it a hassle

Wowo

bob_veng said:

Swash cleric is god in iwd. Massive damage.

Why would you Swash cleric when you can Swash Mage?

bob_veng

because you need a cleric in the party

outside of the party context, a tenser'd mage can't and a cleric with holy power can. not the most important thing in the world, but there are some good spells for a cleric to cast mid-battle.

Wowo

bob_veng said:

because you need a cleric in the party

outside of the party context, a tenser'd mage can't and a cleric with holy power can. not the most important thing in the world, but there are some good spells for a cleric to cast mid-battle.

Why would you settle with 1 second rate cleric when you can take 2 first rate ones? (Valued on their contribution to combat and spellcasting).

A Swash Mage takes advantage of swashbuckler specialisation, action longswords and Mage AC (compared to a Swash cleric who is stuck with 1 pip in flails, 2 +2 weapons to hit max attacks and, what, studded leather?).

Overall I recommend a FMT for Mislead Backstabs and thieving duties but if those shenanigans don't interest you then Swash Mage is definitely the most fun and effective in my experience, but ymmv.

marcellus

bob_veng said:

Swash cleric is god in iwd. Massive damage.

Even if they aren't especially strong fighters, wouldn't that kind of utility character justify itself by virtue of the space it opens in your party? You now have room for an extra berserker/mage or whatever, so the party's damage output overall would be higher.

But swash to cleric seems especially good, given DUHM. I now wish I had one instead of the F/C I rolled in my play through. I would have traps, healing and melee in one slot in exchange for backstab, which I don't use anyway.

Yamcha

Wowo said:

Overall I always recommend to do play throughs with 1 paladin, 1 Druid and 1 bard.

Why the druid?

Bard still can't sing and fight/cast simultaneously right, then explain the bard too please ^^

Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive

Yamcha said:

Why the druid?

Bard still can't sing and fight/cast simultaneously right, then explain the bard too please ^^

Well, I've got a party with a Totemic Druid and a Kitless Bard in it, and I can say that they've both been helpful. I have the bard sing sometimes, and at other times pepper my enemies with arrows. She also covers niche spells in my party, since my main arcane spellcaster is a Sorcerer.

As for a Druid, they have some very nice spells that they lack in the Baldur's Gate games. My Druid basically owned the Pyramid Fight in Dragon's Eye Level 2 by casting Spike Growth and Wall of Moonlight. The trolls and evil priests had to walk through a zone with plants stabbing them in the feet and then through a wall of magic that zapped them. By the time they got to my melee fighters (A Paladin, a Fighter who will eventually dual to Cleric, and an orcish Swashbuckler), they were almost ready to collapse.

Wowo

marcellus said:

bob_veng said:

Swash cleric is god in iwd. Massive damage.

Even if they aren't especially strong fighters, wouldn't that kind of utility character justify itself by virtue of the space it opens in your party? You now have room for an extra berserker/mage or whatever, so the party's damage output overall would be higher.

But swash to cleric seems especially good, given DUHM. I now wish I had one instead of the F/C I rolled in my play through. I would have traps, healing and melee in one slot in exchange for backstab, which I don't use anyway.

If you're looking for the strongest party in IWD you'll take 2 clerics (multi or dual). The problem with a swash cleric is that they can only hit max attacks if they wield both Fast Flails and the Reckless Ring which denies one fast flail for a second cleric restricting party composition to 1 cleric or leaving your swash cleric with only 4 APR. Additionally, a swash cleric is going to have quite mediocre damage compared to a fighter unless you dual at a high level as you can't specialise in the cleric weapons that you'll eventually use.

Seriously though, DUHM is great for any cleric build. Personally I love an Illusionist/Cleric who spends the first part of the game as a primary caster but then can switch to an ultimate roid juggernaut of destruction supplemented with contingicies, sequencers and triggers (loaded with divine spells as appropriate).

Yamcha said:

Wowo said:

Overall I always recommend to do play throughs with 1 paladin, 1 Druid and 1 bard.

Why the druid?

Bard still can't sing and fight/cast simultaneously right, then explain the bard too please ^^

Primary reason is for the unique dialogue and quest experience that each class provides.

After that each class is significantly buffed compared to its BG counterpart making the class more fun. Druid especially has some amazing spells but also some great shapechanges which can open up some new strategies for some of the hardest fights in the game (available to vanilla and Avenger Druids). As for Bards well the spell progression is considerably improved, vanilla Bard songs have some great utility, Blades are stronger due to available items and Skalds are still amazing in a combat oriented party.