To make a sweeping generalization: Anyone who doesn't like this portrait is simply trying to convince themselves that they aren't going to spend massive amounts of money and time playing all the revamped version of BG and ID. Give up, you're going to do it and, gosh darn it, YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE IT TOO!
/Sweeping Generalizations.
Yup that was definitely a sweeping generalization haha. I dun like this portrait but BG:EE is gonna be awwweeesome
I don't like it because it doesn't belong in BG; both in style AND in the garb of the characters in said pictures. I mean look at their equipment, it's also completely IWD-y. Artist is kind of a one-trick pony. But I'll probably like, import them to Icewind Dale, which is where they belong. :P
You know, i would really like a warrior in dark coloured full plate and white hair(short), something like the Blackguard from the DM's book, to use for evil or dark warriors or blackguards doh :P
Something i haven't seen as a portrait before, but i guess what they make will have to do, and if it doesn't, i'll just import my own again
I don't like it because it doesn't belong in BG; both in style AND in the garb of the characters in said pictures. I mean look at their equipment, it's also completely IWD-y. Artist is kind of a one-trick pony. But I'll probably like, import them to Icewind Dale, which is where they belong. :P
I agree. Totally doesn't fit with the BG art style AT ALL.
It's a nice portrait, for an INCEWIND DALE REMAKE.
Seriously do the devs really understand? This is not IWD EE, this is BG EE. Respect the BG art style when you make a enhanced edtiton.
After all, I'm glad they lost the art asset, If it's how they treat the portrait, I don't want to imagine how they would have treated the graphics.
I think some people are overrating to this portrait. Its just a portrait to use , its not for a NPC its just for a PC if you CHOOSE,you dont have to use it.
I agree, the artist has been commissioned to make some portraits for an old game. It probably isn't the biggest job in the industry or the best to put in his portfolio. He makes nice portraits, we should all be happy the EE is actually adding any portraits at all.
I agree, the artist has been commissioned to make some portraits for an old game. It probably isn't the biggest job in the industry or the best to put in his portfolio. He makes nice portraits, we should all be happy the EE is actually adding any portraits at all.
And they can be used for IWD easily!
So what? We are the consumers, we aren't supposed to give a fuck about that. It's not our job to provide them excuses for not being able to do their job properly.
They are here to make an enhanced edition edition of baldurs gate. They are supposed to respect the style of Baldur's gate. In this case they aren't doing it.
''we should be happy EE is actually adding any portrait at all'' . They should be happy we are giving them 20 $ for something that should cost around 5 $ (even the developers have admitted that their product is worth 7$).
And WTF, it's an enhanced edition, we should be expecting fucking additions. And a lot of them for something that cost 20$.
I think maybe somebody needs to take a break from the internet.
I think maybe somebody needs to take a break from the internet.
Maybe yeah? I also love the sense of entitlement and the implied idea that because someone paid less than 20 bucks, a professional artist should be reduced to a monkey tracing and copying some old game graphics in a dark sweaty cellar, just the way this particular someone who invested (or hasn't or isn't planning to) said less than 20 bucks, happens to want it.
The truth lies somewhere between entitlement and "they can do whatever they want." Trust me, if every developer did everything they wanted "because they can, they're the devs," we'd have a lot of really awful games.
On the other hand, if we put developers totally on a leash they have issues ... like not being able to add 65% of the features people want because of contractual limitations.
Not disagreeing with that, listening to players = gud yes, no problem. Players trying to dictate what something's supposed to be like = balls + zipper. In general I just personally rather think of devs as say, authors of yummy goodie books instead of slaves for the consumers and in the end trust their vision more. It's usually based on something other than just 'AH FEEL LIKE THIS'. But this is neither here nor there and it's 5am. Toodles.
I wish the devs would listen to players LESS , I know most will disagree with that.
But I cant remember when I REALLY enjoyed a game in the last 8 years.The way the game industry is now the devs listen to players way to much.I dont remember at all Black Isle asking the players what they wanted in the game to the extent it is today.Did there games turn out great? Yeah i think they did.Consider I still play them today.Yeah the company did not last , but it sure wasnt the quality of games they put out.
Developers should have more say in the game industry, it seems now the publisher and distributor get the most power for what goes in or when a game is released. If the game industry was completely ruled by the devs the games would be much more polished and more depth which in today's market is lacking completely.
I wish the devs would listen to players LESS , I know most will disagree with that.
Two words: Valve, Bungie.
Those two developers listen to their fanbase WAY too much...
Are you serious? The only thing that kept Baldur's Gate alive for 14 years is its community lol
I agree with this, but in addition to that- Look at the raw game. It is just good! Hell I was a young chap when this came out (only 8 years I think?) and I only had the DEMO of this game. So I had the area of Candle Keep and 2 others... But that in itself gave me *commence scary neck vein bulge* SO MUCH ENTERTAINMENT *revert scary neck vein bulge*
The characters were real in my mind and I loved each of them, ( Xzar being my overall favourite but I could never steal his portrait in character selection :P )
Of course I tried to order the game with the pocket money I had so earnestly saved up, but alas the game was discontinued and I could not find it anywhere (I had dial up and had no grasp of how this mysterious internet could help #SHELTERED UPBRINGING) Years later I found myself at a computer market and amongst the rabble I found it. Brand new packaging, plastic and the original release box I discovered the much beloved squeal (That I never knew existed) to a demo I so fondly remembered.
200+ Hours later and I never looked back, there is still just so much content in this masterpiece...
And just when you think all is burned out and forgotten my cousin links me to the remaking of the best story of our childhood, when I saw the seal and that bone chilling music whilst reading -Animate Dead> Infinity Engine- I almost died.
I will stop myself there, just a silly back light of a boy disheartened with the techno-filth of games people produce today... Probably not the place for this post either but don't care this game means a lot to me as I am sure the same to all of you.
Listening to fans is one thing. But sometimes it's hard to parse through the fans' responses, between the trolls, the haters, the candlestick-makers--er...
Some people also just don't understand what makes a good video game, or why it is that they like certain games. So a developer sees that the gamer "really liked the girl with the big boobs", and they think, well, it must have been the big boobs that the player liked; when in actuality, they just forgot Tifa's name, and there were a bunch of other reasons that they liked her (boobs notwithstanding).
Someone on a message board says, "Choice is the most important thing; we need as many choices as possible", and suddenly every RPG becomes Open World, filled with minute decisions that have no bearing on the plot or the player's character.
What needs to happen is developers need to hire a business analyst--someone who knows video games, and who can say, "this is going to appeal to gamers because of X", who can read comments on a forum and say, "gamers are responding to this aspect of Y character because Z".
Too often, developers just read comments on a message board and take them at face value, and they try to cater to that, without knowing why people say what they're saying, without asking investigative questions like, "Why do you dislike Imoen?" or "What is it about the Reputation system that you don't like?" or "Is there something specific about clubs that adds to the game experience for you?"
Square-Enix heard that everyone liked the story of Final Fantasy VII. So when they designed Final Fantasy XIII, they said, "How can we make this game similar to Final Fantasy VII?" As a result, most of the characters are carbon copies of their FF7 analogs. That's the real mistake.
ehh... Its a portrait guys... Frankly I think its good using portraits like this for people who prefer the style. We still have our old portraits to use, and probably a few new ones in a similar style to the originals as well.
Great picture! I hope the others are just as good, though based on the guys previous work I don't think I have anything to worry about.
Also agree about the lack of sexism - even if the cleavage is unpractical, it's not a Chainmail Bikini by any means, and not particularly focused on either. Of course, face-portraits is very easy to avoid sexism in, as they very often lack action regardless of gender portrayed, meaning they won't easily fall into the pit of active versus reactive agents.
@Fake_Sketch I would say that "don't need pats on the back" is different from "need a punch in the face". Criticism is good; constructive criticism is best. Insults are unnecessary and unhelpful.
@Aosaw - Nah, in my mind, criticism doesn't have to be nice to be constructive - you just have to.state why you it's bad (which he.did, because he doesn't think it fits with the old portraits). Sure, people might have an easier time accepting criticism when it's nicely presented, but professional people should he able to take criticism regardless of how it's packaged.
Of course, rude people will still be rude even if their criticism is constructive, but that's a whole other matter.
I like the fact that they are making new stuff for us to use in BGEE, but.. This got me thinking.
When making official content for an enhanced edition of a game, how important is it to actually try unifying the added material with the old, style-wise? As a developer, what is your thought process when hiring and paying artists to make material for the game you're enhancing and, while doing so, giving them green lights to totally ignore the fact that the finished product will stand out so much from the old that it looks like it comes from an entirely different game?
Imagine the work process of the artist. Is there even any *remote* evidence that he knew about Mike Sass' work before he started making this portrait? Does he know that this picture is going to be used for BGEE? Is he somehow limited in making portraits like this, or could he have done the portrait more similar to the old ones if only he gave a damn?
You might say that I shouldn't use the portrait if I don't like it. Fine, I'll just go grab better portraits at somewhere else. But that's the point. This portrait looks like something that could have been found in a portrait-pack featuring artwork taken from random fantasy novels. Official content shouldn't look like it could have been found that way.
What's lacking is some form of collaboration. The NPC-portraits have one distinctive style, this here portrait has another, noone appearantly knows how the original portraits look, it just feels wierd that there's no consistency going on at all.
The only reason to why I'm writing this is because I know that the portrait isn't an optional download. It's in the game to begin with, once it's installed. It's not DLC for the ones who want it, it's official material that's going to be included among the rest of the portraits in the character creation by default.
Am I making too much fuss about a simple portrait? Yeah, I can agree with that. But I'm a huge fan of the game and all of it's content, and every new glimpse of added material gets it's own topic. I hope the ones reading this at least understands my concern.
Jason Manley was the artist for Icewind Dale. So it's likely that they hired him specifically because they like his work and want to bring some of that to BG:EE. One of the main things that people loved about Icewind Dale was its portraits; this adds some of that quality artwork to Baldur's Gate.
Also remember that there are two portrait packs being included here. The second pack was not done by Jason Manley, and for all we know looks more like the portraits for Neera, Dorn, and Rasaad, which themselves are just a little bit different from the canon portraits from BG1.
That said, they're not all that different from the ones from BG2. They're a little bit different, obviously, because it's a different artist. It's possible that these new portraits were created with BG2 in mind, rather than BG1 - which is really okay, it's just a slightly different style.
I'm curious to see the rest of Manley's pack, but I'm more curious to see the portraits in the pack we haven't seen at all yet. Either way, with a total of twenty new portraits (ten male, ten female), it's unlikely that you won't be able to find any that you like enough to try at least once, or at least admire during character creation even if you don't use them.
Also, some of the brush-stroke effect won't be as noticeable in the actual game. Check out the attached image, which I've scaled down to 220 x 316. I've also attached the other one that we've seen, similarly scaled down.
The main difference is that they're just a little bit darker, their skin isn't as shiny, and the image isn't centered exclusively on the head. Compare these with Haer'Dalis--and note that Haer'Dalis's portrait was likely cut down from a larger image:
If we do the same thing to the male fellow...
As you can see the difference is much less drastic.
@Kolonku Like what @Aosaw said, they knew who Jason Manley is and he knew about Baldur's Gate.
It's not like they picked up any old random guy (Nat Jones, ha, I'm kidding) to give us these portraits. They picked a guy who is famous for the IWD games which are based off the famous BG games.
The inclusion of Jason Manley in this project is one of the most appropiate things Beamdog have done, as far as I'm concerned. I disagree with some of their approaches but this one is good.
In my opinion Jason's portraits are better than Mike's, however, they're unique takes so who cares? I want both.
As a painter myself, I find Jason's work awesome, I can't say enough good things about it...and thanks to Aosaw scaling them down, I think the look of them fit right in with the rest. I applaud the artist.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. Buddha
I dont think you realise how hard it is to consciously try to immitate another style and feel, I would much prefer a portrait that was done by a passionate person who can create portraits that are full of flavour and can be situated in the game than by an artist trying his hardest to make something that looks like something else, artists have there own style and I can see from the digital art that the person knows what he is doing and from the scaled down version of the potraits they look refreshing and have the serious baldurs gate feel.
I understand your concern but the portraits we have been shown I think are so much better than the portraits of baldurs gate 2. So its definatley a step forward.
Comments
I don't like it because it doesn't belong in BG; both in style AND in the garb of the characters in said pictures. I mean look at their equipment, it's also completely IWD-y. Artist is kind of a one-trick pony. But I'll probably like, import them to Icewind Dale, which is where they belong. :P
Although honestly, I'll probably crop down and use this one instead.
P.S. New BG:EE portraits are just awesome! I'm greedy for more.
Something i haven't seen as a portrait before, but i guess what they make will have to do, and if it doesn't, i'll just import my own again
I agree. Totally doesn't fit with the BG art style AT ALL.
It's a nice portrait, for an INCEWIND DALE REMAKE.
Seriously do the devs really understand? This is not IWD EE, this is BG EE. Respect the BG art style when you make a enhanced edtiton.
After all, I'm glad they lost the art asset, If it's how they treat the portrait, I don't want to imagine how they would have treated the graphics.
Its just a portrait to use , its not for a NPC its just for a PC if you CHOOSE,you dont have to use it.
And they can be used for IWD easily!
I think maybe somebody needs to take a break from the internet.
Don't want, don't buy. Pretty simple.
On the other hand, if we put developers totally on a leash they have issues ... like not being able to add 65% of the features people want because of contractual limitations.
But I cant remember when I REALLY enjoyed a game in the last 8 years.The way the game industry is now the devs listen to players way to much.I dont remember at all Black Isle asking the players what they wanted in the game to the extent it is today.Did there games turn out great? Yeah i think they did.Consider I still play them today.Yeah the company did not last , but it sure wasnt the quality of games they put out.
Developers should have more say in the game industry, it seems now the publisher and distributor get the most power for what goes in or when a game is released.
If the game industry was completely ruled by the devs the games would be much more polished and more depth which in today's market is lacking completely.
Those two developers listen to their fanbase WAY too much...
The only thing that kept Baldur's Gate alive for 14 years is its community lol
Hell I was a young chap when this came out (only 8 years I think?) and I only had the DEMO of this game. So I had the area of Candle Keep and 2 others... But that in itself gave me *commence scary neck vein bulge* SO MUCH ENTERTAINMENT *revert scary neck vein bulge*
The characters were real in my mind and I loved each of them, ( Xzar being my overall favourite but I could never steal his portrait in character selection :P )
Of course I tried to order the game with the pocket money I had so earnestly saved up, but alas the game was discontinued and I could not find it anywhere (I had dial up and had no grasp of how this mysterious internet could help #SHELTERED UPBRINGING) Years later I found myself at a computer market and amongst the rabble I found it. Brand new packaging, plastic and the original release box I discovered the much beloved squeal (That I never knew existed) to a demo I so fondly remembered.
200+ Hours later and I never looked back, there is still just so much content in this masterpiece...
And just when you think all is burned out and forgotten my cousin links me to the remaking of the best story of our childhood, when I saw the seal and that bone chilling music whilst reading -Animate Dead> Infinity Engine- I almost died.
I will stop myself there, just a silly back light of a boy disheartened with the techno-filth of games people produce today... Probably not the place for this post either but don't care this game means a lot to me as I am sure the same to all of you.
Happy posting.
Some people also just don't understand what makes a good video game, or why it is that they like certain games. So a developer sees that the gamer "really liked the girl with the big boobs", and they think, well, it must have been the big boobs that the player liked; when in actuality, they just forgot Tifa's name, and there were a bunch of other reasons that they liked her (boobs notwithstanding).
Someone on a message board says, "Choice is the most important thing; we need as many choices as possible", and suddenly every RPG becomes Open World, filled with minute decisions that have no bearing on the plot or the player's character.
What needs to happen is developers need to hire a business analyst--someone who knows video games, and who can say, "this is going to appeal to gamers because of X", who can read comments on a forum and say, "gamers are responding to this aspect of Y character because Z".
Too often, developers just read comments on a message board and take them at face value, and they try to cater to that, without knowing why people say what they're saying, without asking investigative questions like, "Why do you dislike Imoen?" or "What is it about the Reputation system that you don't like?" or "Is there something specific about clubs that adds to the game experience for you?"
Square-Enix heard that everyone liked the story of Final Fantasy VII. So when they designed Final Fantasy XIII, they said, "How can we make this game similar to Final Fantasy VII?" As a result, most of the characters are carbon copies of their FF7 analogs. That's the real mistake.
I didn't say anything about Baldur's Gate at all. And what you say is completely solid fact.
Did you reply to the wrong person or what?
Also agree about the lack of sexism - even if the cleavage is unpractical, it's not a Chainmail Bikini by any means, and not particularly focused on either. Of course, face-portraits is very easy to avoid sexism in, as they very often lack action regardless of gender portrayed, meaning they won't easily fall into the pit of active versus reactive agents.
@PhillipDaigle -
Wait, more were approved? How nice do we have to ask to get them released as well?
@Aosaw -
Nah, in my mind, criticism doesn't have to be nice to be constructive - you just have to.state why you it's bad (which he.did, because he doesn't think it fits with the old portraits). Sure, people might have an easier time accepting criticism when it's nicely presented, but professional people should he able to take criticism regardless of how it's packaged.
Of course, rude people will still be rude even if their criticism is constructive, but that's a whole other matter.
When making official content for an enhanced edition of a game, how important is it to actually try unifying the added material with the old, style-wise? As a developer, what is your thought process when hiring and paying artists to make material for the game you're enhancing and, while doing so, giving them green lights to totally ignore the fact that the finished product will stand out so much from the old that it looks like it comes from an entirely different game?
Imagine the work process of the artist. Is there even any *remote* evidence that he knew about Mike Sass' work before he started making this portrait? Does he know that this picture is going to be used for BGEE? Is he somehow limited in making portraits like this, or could he have done the portrait more similar to the old ones if only he gave a damn?
You might say that I shouldn't use the portrait if I don't like it. Fine, I'll just go grab better portraits at somewhere else. But that's the point. This portrait looks like something that could have been found in a portrait-pack featuring artwork taken from random fantasy novels. Official content shouldn't look like it could have been found that way.
What's lacking is some form of collaboration. The NPC-portraits have one distinctive style, this here portrait has another, noone appearantly knows how the original portraits look, it just feels wierd that there's no consistency going on at all.
The only reason to why I'm writing this is because I know that the portrait isn't an optional download. It's in the game to begin with, once it's installed. It's not DLC for the ones who want it, it's official material that's going to be included among the rest of the portraits in the character creation by default.
Am I making too much fuss about a simple portrait? Yeah, I can agree with that. But I'm a huge fan of the game and all of it's content, and every new glimpse of added material gets it's own topic. I hope the ones reading this at least understands my concern.
Also remember that there are two portrait packs being included here. The second pack was not done by Jason Manley, and for all we know looks more like the portraits for Neera, Dorn, and Rasaad, which themselves are just a little bit different from the canon portraits from BG1.
That said, they're not all that different from the ones from BG2. They're a little bit different, obviously, because it's a different artist. It's possible that these new portraits were created with BG2 in mind, rather than BG1 - which is really okay, it's just a slightly different style.
I'm curious to see the rest of Manley's pack, but I'm more curious to see the portraits in the pack we haven't seen at all yet. Either way, with a total of twenty new portraits (ten male, ten female), it's unlikely that you won't be able to find any that you like enough to try at least once, or at least admire during character creation even if you don't use them.
The main difference is that they're just a little bit darker, their skin isn't as shiny, and the image isn't centered exclusively on the head. Compare these with Haer'Dalis--and note that Haer'Dalis's portrait was likely cut down from a larger image:
If we do the same thing to the male fellow...
As you can see the difference is much less drastic.
This is a portrait I would use.
It's not like they picked up any old random guy (Nat Jones, ha, I'm kidding) to give us these portraits. They picked a guy who is famous for the IWD games which are based off the famous BG games.
The inclusion of Jason Manley in this project is one of the most appropiate things Beamdog have done, as far as I'm concerned. I disagree with some of their approaches but this one is good.
In my opinion Jason's portraits are better than Mike's, however, they're unique takes so who cares? I want both.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
Buddha
I dont think you realise how hard it is to consciously try to immitate another style and feel, I would much prefer a portrait that was done by a passionate person who can create portraits that are full of flavour and can be situated in the game than by an artist trying his hardest to make something that looks like something else, artists have there own style and I can see from the digital art that the person knows what he is doing and from the scaled down version of the potraits they look refreshing and have the serious baldurs gate feel.
I understand your concern but the portraits we have been shown I think are so much better than the portraits of baldurs gate 2. So its definatley a step forward.