Losing money every day, waiting for SoD
teenparty
Member Posts: 46
I've recently hit the level cap in BG1 in preperation for SoD. My problem is now what I should do while waiting for SoD. More specifically, what should I do about my companions? I can't keep paying them every day when there is nothing for them to do. Should I perhaps fire them or rent them out to other adventuring parties?
Maybe we should just wander around aimlessly and kill kobolds for scraps.
Maybe we should just wander around aimlessly and kill kobolds for scraps.
4
Comments
Obviously the first thing you should do is carry on and finish the game. After finishing the game, just save it and start again with a different protagonist (and probably different companions). Your party is in "suspended animation" while that particular run is shelved on disk, so you needn't (and can't) pay your companions.
These games are all about multiple replayability. I've got several different parties waiting to proceed into SoD, each of which will bring an interestingly different protagonist into SoD. There's no reason why you shouldn't do the same.
P.S. I've made both these claims many times in the past.
Are we supposed to?
I thought they were just there because they liked me...
so far so good
Edit: This is really hard. One mistake and they die instantly.. and I keep walking by Minsc and Edwin taunting me with their awesome stats.
Xan + Quayle = ample arcane-casting power, Faldorn + Quayle = more than ample divine-casting power, Alora = best Thief in the game, Rasaad = erm ... okay, I grant you that he's somewhat weak in BG1, but the rest of this party is so strong that they can get away with carrying him as a passenger. All you lack with these NPCs is someone to give you decent front-line punch, so if your protagonist fills that gap by being a strong warrior, then you'll easily roll right over any opposition BG1 offers. With the right choice of protagonist, it ought to be positively easy! Apart from Rasaad, this line-up is a power-gaming party.
Xan: He's an Enchanter and thats pretty much the end note on him. Every other mage in the game is better from Neera to Dynaheir to Xzar because Xan has no offensive power. No fireball, no web, no magic missile, no stinking cloud, no chromatic orb.. etc etc. He does have Sleep and Horror but those stop being effective after the first few chapters. He has good utility but every other mage has that as well. Even Imoen duel classed is better. Hell.. I think Eldoth is a better mage.. at least he can use good spells and a bow.
Faldorn: Druid is just a bad kit in BG (Its abit better in IWD tho) I want it to work, I've tried to make it work but.. they just need a few more good spells in the lower levels. I think they realized this in IWD. Aside from her poor spell selection compared to a cleric she's proficient in clubs and darts. yay.. ill prob never use either of those.. She's allergic to metal meaning pretty much all defensive items. (every other defensive item is going to get soaked up by Rasaad) She starts out at level 3 with 1/3rd of her max possible hp for a druid. and she has next to no offensive spells. She will eventually get insect swarm but it will be a long time coming.. Oh yeah, she can shape change into weak monsters too. Her biggest problem though is every other Cleric (and Jaheira) are better.
Alora: She's actually decent (if you want a pure class thief). Her stats make her a pretty good thief even though she can't really backstab very well but as an archer shes alright and her rabbit foot is awesome too. The trouble with her is the computer is absolutely retarded with her skill points and hp. She starts out with 14 hp at level 4 and zero points into find traps. 50 points are wasted into pick pockets. By this level Imoen, Montaron, Safana and Coren are all stronger in what you actually need a thief to do and most of them are multi-class making them even better, higher hp, better thac0, better damage, more utility. Alora is probably better than Skie tho (who has exactly the same problems, decent thief but bad computer level up.)
Quayle: He isn't too bad either, he can fill a combo role but he's just overshadowed by Edwin, Xzar, Dynaheir, Neera, and Imoen.. and Viconia, Jaheira (gee this list is getting kinda long here) Branwen and Tiax ..as he's only got a 10 in wisdom meaning he's not a very good cleric. The computer was wise about his skills tho, he starts with 11 hp out of 12 max and he's proficient in slings.. and thats good because he'll never be anywhere near combat.
Rasaad: Yep, his stats are too low and he doesn't really turn on until BG2. A monk has to be all about his stats because they don't have gear and he's just shy of getting any real bonuses. And check this out.. He's one of my front liners ok.. I was in Nashkel Mines on my way to get Xan and he got one shot by a kobold. a regular kobold. one singular kobold shot one arrow and that was it for him, poof, dead.. thats not a good sign.. least he doesn't have a lot of gear to scrape off the ground..
Tiax: He's ok and I have beat the game with him before. His HP is good even if his wisdom is not and his ghoul is pretty good even if its limited to a single use. Statistically he's not really much worse than Viconia in combat and he's got the humour factor going for him. He is however bottom of the ladder compared to other NPC's in his role just above Quayle and Faldorn. Maybe when I get Ankheg I can move him to the front line.. yeah.. you know things are pretty rough when Tiax is your front line..
So in this group I only have one real damage dealer (my main who is unwisely a ranger and not a pure figher.. that will come to bite me I'm sure..) and 2 semi damage dealers (Alora and Rasaad). Fights last forever while the backline shoots spitwads at the enemy. I dumped Quayle from the group.. figured he wasn't needed with Tiax and I need at least *someone* who can wear armor.
Faldorn in Ankheg plate (and other protective gear) is quite tanky, she can go front-row. I don't recall using her that way for an entire game, but certainly I've done so for quite a long stretch on several occasions (including my current run). Her HP does start rather weak, but it's okay after a couple of decent level-ups ... just make sure that your protagonist is running a little ahead, so that Faldorn isn't usually the one drawing most of the enemy fire. You dismiss the idea of using Clubs, but the Mighty Oak +2 is a pretty good weapon by BG1 standards. And of course, you can then give her Scimitar proficiency and Rashad's Talon +2. Like any BG Druid, her early spells are unexciting, but she's good at basic healing duties and she gets some more interesting spells later. Don't dismiss Darts so lightly either - they've got good APR when you need a hit to disrupt enemy casting, and there's a decent supply of magical Darts (e.g. Darts of Stunning and Darts of Wounding) which are quite powerful.
Xan's lack of Evocation spells is a weakness, but you've got Quayle who can cover that gap. Xan has everything else, and is fine provided you adapt your casting style to non-Evocation methods of crowd control (Enchantment spells, etc., eventually including the devastating Chaos) and of blowing stuff up (Skull Trap!)
Quayle is really your key man in this team, giving you all those spells which Faldorn and Xan lack, he's the most versatile caster in BG1. I use him a lot, and he's excellent - more casting power in a single party slot than any other NPC. If you dropped him, then no wonder you're finding it surprisingly difficult.
Alora is terrific now that the EE has finally got her Lucky Rabbit's Foot to work (which it never did in original BG1), easily the best Thief in the game. Yes, you've got to spend a couple of level-ups getting her skills into shape, but that's true for every Thief. No, she can't backstab very well ... but no single-class Thief can backstab well, that's never the effective way to use any pure Thief - you need a Fighter/Thief (or a Stalker) if you want backstabbing to be any use. She's quite good with her bow, and once you've got her Find Traps sorted out, then you can invest later level-ups into Set Traps, which becomes very powerful later in the game.
Tiax is a pointless substitution who doesn't fit in this party - you don't need his Thief skills when you've got Alora instead, and Quayle is a far more powerful caster.
Rasaad as a front-liner is dodgy at BG1 levels (although obviously it's a very different situation once he gets going in BG2). Most of the time in BG1, he's better off hanging back and using a ranged weapon ... give him a Dagger proficiency and some throwing Daggers, and he turns out to be actually quite good with them, and he can carry a decent supply since he doesn't use other heavy equipment. (Alternatively, I've used him with Darts too, in cases where I don't have someone else already using Darts.)
@Gallowglass
Yeah.. it might work out ok, we'll see what happens when people stop getting one shot by the +50% damage but the point is everyone *else* I could take is still better.. (for example Alora isn't better than Coran, not even close. Xan isn't better than.. well.. anyone. you get the drift) We can agree to disagree tho. It's the internet after all. (Just tell me you don't like Cernd in BG2 so I can believe your not entirely crazy.) ;p
Cheers
P.S. Hea Beamdog, add the IWD spell table to druids in SoD.
Edit: Rasaad just died to a Xavart in one shot.. um.. he's level 4. Welp... time to shovel him up again.. I just can't let my guard down ever.. every enemy is critically dangerous to this group because all of them can roll 20's and smote me. This is seriously the hardest play through I've ever done and I've been playing the game since it's original release.. I still have the CD's somewhere.. I can't even imaging doing Durlag's Tower with this group..
Nevertheless, anyone can score a critical, so I agree that in the early stages there's some inevitable risk even against trivial opponents (like that Xvart who just killed Rasaad). But on the other hand, Tiax can wear metal armour. Not Plate, but Splint isn't too terrible - it's better than anything Faldorn can wear if you don't give her the Ankheg. Faldorn in Ankheg and Tiax in Splint is more overall protection for the party than Tiax taking the Ankheg and leaving Faldorn with just Leather.
Later, of course, both can wear Ankheg and be well-protected. As a Thief Alora is way better than Coran, but obviously Coran is much better in combat. If you've got sufficient other combat ability in the party (which I think we agree is the weak spot in the particular line-up we're discussing), so that you don't particularly need your Thief to double up as a major damage dealer, then Alora is ideal. If you desperately need a Thief who can double up as a Fighter, then obviously you look at a Fighter/Thief (i.e. Coran or Montaron). I get the drift, but I don't agree. The party you specified (i.e. including Quayle, not nerfing yourself by dropping him for Tiax) is very good at everything except physical combat, it's a fine line-up provided that your protagonist is a hardcore front-liner.
When you've got some other caster who can cast Evocation spells when you need them, then Xan can do everything else perfectly well. It's even possible to use him as sole arcane caster, although that's not the easiest play. Once he gets the better Enchantment spells (Confusion mid-game, and eventually Chaos), I'd argue that he's more powerful than Dynaheir (who is good at blowing stuff up, but weaker for crowd control). I also count Neera as pretty weak in BG1, because her Wild Surges make her unreliable ... sure she can sometimes cast extra-powerfully when you get lucky, but suddenly failing at a critical moment can be disastrous. Yep, I reckon we'll have to. He's not my favourite character ... but certainly I use Cernd sometimes.
Have you ever actually used him properly, taking him all the way to the end? He takes some management to use well, but once you've figured out how to use him in different ways at different stages of the game, he turns out to be a lot better than some people give him credit for. He's initially quite weak if you pick him up early in BG2 (which is probably why he gets such a bad reputation), but once he gets his Greater Werewolf form (level 13) he's suddenly a pretty darn good front-row tank for the remainder of SoA, then around end-SoA or start-ToB (when his GWW melee ability is starting to fall behind), he hits level 15 and suddenly gets a flood of additional spells which turns him into a powerful back-row caster (in particular, he's the best Summoner in the game).
I venture you should try this. Hard mode or better with Faldorn, Xan and Rasaad locked in but you can swap Tiax, Quayle or Alora as you wish. You'll need to mod a little bit to get access to them at low levels (NPC mod + Cloakwood) but feel free. This might be too hard / tedious for me to go through a full play through (and I play Xcom on ironman insane mode so I don't shy from hard games.) but I want to at least get past Rasaad's quest because I've never done it.
Let me share some things here about why I chose to do things the way I did and you can compare on your run through with your own strategies. I'm to the bandit camp atm clearing out the lower part of the map.
First of with Xan, I don't even know what to do with him.. its a problem. Part of the reason that makes him hard to use in the group is because he simply can't use a lot of mage tactics you'd normally have access too. Where as your right about Neera, shes not the strongest mage for sure. (Edwin safely holds that honour in terms of shear power) she does have access to the spells that make those tactics viable. The two ways I can think of to use this guy are apply status effects, slow, haste, confusion and chaos for the bigger fights and have him stand in a corner and suck the rest of the time while he luggs all my gear around. The other way may be to load him up on defensive spells and play him like a close range fighter/mage (only without the fighter part) most touch spells suck but there is burning hands that might work and he does have a +3 weapon.. (except without the thac0 or attacks per round to use it) This is prob a pipe dream tho with his 7 con..
Faldorn she's going to be dead weight for a long time. I'm pretty much going to give her a sling and load every healing and buff spell I can get on her and hope for the best till I get her defence, proficiencies and hp sorted out.. and by then she'll prob have iron skin, summon insects and be fairly good end game. Thank god there is a lot of outdoors combat where summon lightning will come in handy.. once she gets it that is..
Rasaad is going to be a problem till I get to Chapter 5 where he can get some decent Str boosting items and defensive items. I'm kind of playing him like a poor mans Kivan atm as his melee range is good enough to hit but still stay behind others. And I can use him with slings if shits too busy up front. He takes consent attention though.. with an AC of 1 and 24 hp currently he can blow down like a leaf if anything so much as looks at him and sometimes things on the front tend to switch their target.
Next you have the flex characters. Why choose one or the other.. we'll that up to you.. Seems we agree on Alora being a good fit, her dex makes her just a good archer and with so much dead weight in the party you really do need to have someone kill things. Just to air it.. your prob stronger endgame with Tiax and Quayle so if you want to play the long road that might be the way to go.
Quayle is good enough to be in the group (at least *this* group) for sure but I just can't imagine using Faldorn as a front liner at this time.. even with Ankheg the lack of a real shield and low hp, bad weapons makes me too worried to put her there. Tiax can use Ashideena or The Stupefier, +1 Shields giving him better melee combat potential and at least -2 to his AC over what Faldorn can get. He's got a con bonus to boot and better saving throws. Since Faldorn is locked in the question gets determined not by who's really stronger over Quayle or Tiax but by how much Faldorn sucks and the party's need to at least have one other person in the group that won't die in 2 seconds, his ghoul on top of that makes 3. We loose a lot of access to mage spells that Quayle would bring and it would make normal mage tactics work but I really just don't want to rest after every single fight. I think I can make it work and ya know I might just take Quayle over Alora too once Tiax gets his thf skills up and Faldorn can actually.. if ever.. hold her own on the front. You could however prob make it work any way you slice it as these 3 aren't really the problem with the group because they are just stronger overall than the others.
Your mileage of course may vary..
That said I'm not rushing the game and the weakest of things are critically dangerous to the group. Every Gibberling is a serious potential threat. I'm also starting to run out of easy places I can get exp. I can go Ankheg hunting but its risky.. I could try to clear firewine out.. or maybe go basilisk hunting.. but I think the bandit camp is still too dangerous till Xan gets a few more spells under his belt. Again most of the South West is done and that golden moment where this group comes into it's own still feels a long way off.
Let me know how you fair, I'd be interested.
When I get to it, hmmm, I guess I'll probably go with a Dwarven Defender as protagonist (since I advocated a hardcore front-liner!), but I haven't firmly decided on that yet. I'd rather not mod my game, I'd prefer to find the various NPCs in their official locations.
I'll recruit each member of the specified party as soon as I find him, and I'll endeavour to reach them all as soon as reasonably practicable (i.e. skipping most side-areas until I've assembled the full specified party). However, since a couple of them aren't available until Chapter 5, I'll allow myself to take along some temporary substitutes until I reach the intended NPCs. I'll use roughly-similar substitutes where possible (e.g. Imoen as Thief until I reach Alora).
I reckon that at least 75% of the game would come after I had assembled the full "test party", so it's still a pretty thorough test, and this way I'll be testing how the specified party fares in "real BG" as designed by the devs.
Your gonna want to get ppl picked up before level 4.. things start getting really bad hp wise for a few of them past that.. For instance if you get Alora at level 6 she'll have a whopping 19 hp. (she caps at level 10, that gives her a total possible of 19+4d6 hp or about 30~40 hp and it will take 2 levels to get her Find Traps to a reasonable level. ~50k worth of exp, my fighter thf had 81 hp at the end of bg1.) so when your in Durlag's tower taking 60+ damage fireballs.. well... things are going to get a little rough.
Edit: Thought I'd share this. So for lack of any high exp content I was feeling comfortable to do after the bandit camp I thought I'd just run to the cloakwood mines, (I already had ran through and skipped a big chunk of the cloakwood getting Faldorn in the group). I got though the fight outside with a Tiax silence then his ghoul got a lucky stun on the main boss.. whew.. I proceeded to gang rape that guy then cleaned up the rest of the mages trying to melee me. Dodged a bullet there.. I didn't know how I'd handle the big fight on the second floor I was thinking I might just have to save and run past them.. so I sneaked into the room Yeslick's in via the secret passage and unlocked his door. Right away the female mage in that room walked up to the door and started casting and several talon elite started to storm in. Ooops I thought to myself.. what now? In a panic I slammed the door shut just as the mage finished casting lightning bolt at me.. it bounced off the door and ended up frying herself and killing outright 3 of the guards with some wicked fast bounces off the furniture in that room. I laughed so hard. Popped the door back open, whacked her once or twice and she went down then cleaning up the rest of the room was pretty easy as everyone was all clumped up tight for hold person.. Both hard fights down no need to reload a save. ran right past the next level to Davaeorn's room. Alora couldn't disarm the final trap as her skill is only 80 but Tiax got it. I then went and hid in the bedroom and sent in my pet wolf and ghoul to soak up some of his spells. after that I waited abit for some of his spells to wear off walked around the corner and Tiax hit him with silence, and thats all she wrote for Davaeorn. Such luck... Xan and Faldorn didn't even cast a spell. (not that one of there would have really helped.. as they don't have level 3 spells yet) Must be the rabbit foot working.. After this I checked Xan's most powerful foe killed.. It says guard.. lol it's talking about the guard that asks you about his erectile disfunction problem in the hallway down here.. rofl.. way to go Xan an epic foe vanquished.
So now I'm off to Candlekeep to get started ...
I've finally got to the point of having the whole agreed team assembled - obviously since I'm collecting them from their original locations instead of using NPC Project, I had to play to Chapter 5 to collect Quayle and Alora.
At this stage, my experience has been that nowhere was particularly difficult except for the ambushes in Cloakwood. Outside the Cloakwood ambushes, just a couple of reloads when I did something carelessly and one when I bit off more than I could chew. In the actual Cloakwood areas (not ambushes), there was still no great problem. But arghh, those ambushes caused several reloads!
The tactic I've used most of the time is that my Dwarven Defender works alone in melee, because he's tough enough to survive, and all the rest mostly work at range or casting. The trouble in the Cloakwood ambushes is that you're usually forced to melee with at least two characters at once, and when a low-HP secondary melee character (I was mostly using Faldorn for this) fails the Save vs. Poison, you've got to be really quick curing the poison else they'll die before you fix it ... and I wasn't quick enough on several occasions.
Now, however, I've got Rasaad up to the point (level 6) where he's no longer useless in melee, so I've moved him up front so that Faldorn can drop back to second row. So far, this seems to be a tougher configuration, and now I'm even letting Rasaad melee voluntarily quite a lot. However, I haven't used this new tactic for long yet, so we'll see how it goes.
Most of the game (I reckon at least 75%) remains to be done, because I've hurried to Chapter 5 without exploring most of the off-route areas, nor have I yet tackled the City (except to meet Alora) or any of the Ulgoth's Beard material.
Now to go see how the rest of it goes ...