Need advice - Full SCS / Ascension + Insane
Linkamus
Member Posts: 221
I'm attempting a playthrough with a Full SCS/Ascension install on insane difficulty, and I'm curious to know how anyone experienced with SCS goes about the game? Which quests do you do first? What's the best way to level up to deal with these much harder encounters?
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Having played a lot of SCS runs and having dabbled with Ascension, I'd say the safest early game quests are much the same as in the original. Stick with the Athkatla quests, avoid Beholders and Liches, and when you do leave Athkatla for the quests in the De'Arnise Hold, Trademeet, the Umar Hills, and the Windspear Hills, I recommend that you delay fighting the end boss of each one. Also, it's generally easier to side with Bodhi.
SCS improves AI across the board, but there are some critters that it especially empowers--depending on your install options. The Shield of Balduran is only a temporary defense against Beholders, as they'll eventually take it from you using telekinesis after a few rounds. Mind Flayers use a broader variety of psionic attacks, so even Chaotic Commands and Animate Dead won't make them easy targets. Vampires can drain Constitution if they can't drain levels, and they will summon wolves and rats to fight with them. Use Protection from Undead, and they will turn invisible and run away.
Liches and mages come soaked with prebuffs and are very hard to render vulnerable. They will use the best spells in the game to defend themselves (no more Liches using Improved Mantle instead of PFMW) and the best offensive spells to kill you. It's not uncommon to see a high-level mage or lich throw out Comet and Dragon's Breath and Summon Fallen Planetar during a Time Stop, and mages of all levels will use Remove Magic to down take down your own buffing spells unless you have Spell Immunity: Abjuration active. And even SI: Abjuration isn't a guarantee of the safety of your buffs, as enemy mages can take it down with Secret Word or the like. Enemy mages also like to use Melf's Minute Meteors to disrupt your own spells, and will use divination magic if you try to sneak around them. They will use all of the spells you can use, and they make good choices.
Ascension also uses better AI, but unlike SCS (in most cases), it gives all sorts of enemies lots of powerful new abilities, and adds new enemies to old fights (you will fight multiple dragons at once, more than once). You may have to get creative or cheesy to win.
SCS + Insane is certainly a challenge if you're not used to it, and will present you with interesting puzzles to solve.
In general, what you do and when depends a lot on your party makeup. If you're running with a lot of dual class characters, for example, you may want to bank quest XP etc. to get them through their inactive phases. If you're lacking certain tools (e.g. high level dispels) you may want to skip certain areas (e.g. those containing liches) until you're higher level.
Personally, I usually clear all the side quests before departing for Spellhold. I also tend to if not clear WK then at least do the first level to get some of the more powerful items (Foebane, ammo of Plenty, etc.). I find the early/mid-game to be the hardest. The troll-infested areas in particular can be quite frustrating with lower-level parties, that lack the raw power and the tools to face the big packs of highly annoying enemies (I've often said that Tor'Gal is one of the hardest bosses in the game for me, simply because I do him so early).
There's no "right solution", of course. Much is personal preference, and also contingent of what you have to play with. Some parties will have an easier time doing certain things in a certain order, while others may struggle with the same but find something else a breeze. I strongly recommend toying around with what works best for you, and not being disheartened when you get your butt whupped. Because you will!
If you're looking for more in-depth info on party composition etc. check the powergaming threads. There's a lot of info there we have put together over literal years, and most of it pertains to SCS + Insane setups.
Speaking of which: I can also HIGHLY recommend two other mods to go with it, ItemRevisions and SpellRevisions. They add even more of a challenge by balancing some of the more blatant "cheese" and powergaming solutions (like stacking APR + Improved Haste) while also opening more interesting avenues in terms of weapon selection etc.
Of course, the new Nightmare Mode (aka "Hard as Bhaals") is also very good, but adds quite a bit of difficulty on top of everything. I like it because it stops most brute-force strategies, but I do recognize it's not for everyone.
If you have more specific questions, feel free to ask! Otherwise I'd simply suggest you explore and show tenacity in the face of difficulty - it's worth it for the feeling of having finally overcome in the end.
Now that sounds strange... What's that "new nightmare mode"? Never heard of it.
The main thing about insane/nightmare mode is that it drastically lowers the efficiency of damage tankiness. Reducing damage by 80% makes you very hard to kill in Core Rules. In insane it will not work so well, and even worse in nightmare. But it will not change anything if you are not hit, or if you reach 100% resistance, which is achievable though far from easy and not without some slight exploits. I would not attempt SCS Ascension Nightmare, it is gonna be a pain more than anything else. SCS Ascension Insane does not totally eliminate the possibility of using Damage resistance.
That being said, let's see what classes qualify:
Of course, any kind of mage/sorcerer will be alright, because they have so many way of not being hit. If played properly they fear nothing but enemy parties with SCS mages (because they are smart).
Dwarven Defender,Barbarian, Blackguard and F/C all three provide good tankiness to the team. Dwarven Defender may reach good tankiness early in the game, Barbarian need to wait longer but they a very good resistance to status effects with Barbarian rage (undispelable), F/C and Blackguard need to wait as long as barbarian, they resist status less well, but they are more polyvalent overall
F/M and Blade are very good candidates as well, they eventually get to never get hit as well and are a good frontline in such a playthrough, that's quite a necessity.
I get that you will do it with a party, would be really insane otherwise.
If you do that, here are a few picks you might want to consider:
Keldorn: Carsomyr will come handy, so will his dispel (even if at *1 level if you installed that SCS component) and true sight
Haer'Dalis: He is a blade, thus he is good for such a playthrough. His Tieflin resistances are handy as well
Aerie: Will prove to be very very good as a supportive mage/cleric, because she has access to a very wide variety of spell
Viconia: Her MR and typical build (with very good AC) will get her through SoA quite easily, and by the time you get to ToB she will have access to enough spells to be a decent lategame pick
Jan/Imoen: You will need a thief, both will do well, and both scale very well into lategame.
Rasaad/Korgan/Sarevok are good additions as well
You can consider Neera/Edwin if you want more arcane spellcasting (if you pick a DDef/Barbarian as Charname for exemple)
(Me)Sorcerer
Jan
Neera
Aerie
Keldorn
Rasaad
As far as willingness to cheese, I just finished BG1 with SCS on insane, and I did have to cheese a bit on the last fight, and a few times I had to run away from mages until their seemlingly un-dispel-able buffs wore off, haha. Overall though, I'd like to avoid cheese as much as possible. I'm starting to realize this run through BG2 is probably going to take me a long time with a lot of trial and error. It should be fun though!
Your party looks very solid. Sorcerer is certainly a very powerful pick, as arcane spells are for sure the bread and butter of BG2 SCS. Your NPCs are also picked from the better ones (including Keldorn who is arguably the best, due to Inquisitors being SO good in SCS), except perhaps Rasaad who I personally dislike not just because of his class. However, that is once again personal preference; you can make Monks crush in SCS, for sure.
I would not however recommend such a party setup for Nightmare Mode, as the higher HP pools means you need a way to reliably deal damage (and spells run out rather quickly). If you don't plan on doing NM (yet!) then that is no concern for you.
For more in-depth analysis of class compositions, check out the powergaming threads where the pros and cons of various setups are discussed on twelve dozen pages. I would however encourage you to try out things for yourself as well, as you may learn a lot in the process!
Also, the reason I want Rasaad, is mainly because I haven't gone through BG2 with the EE NPCs yet. I want to see their side quests.