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Star Wars: KOTOR 1 or 2 (spoilers)

BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
Consider this topic for any and all posts KOTOR related.

Since the new Star Wars movie is about to be released, I decided to replay KOTOR 1 before continuing with MotB, in order to get myself into a good Star Wars mood. I'm very excited about the new movie, and my best friend and I have advance tickets to see it together on Christmas Day. (No movie spoilers here, please!)

Tonight, I got up through the point where I won a swoop bike race and Bastila joined my party.

It's been so long since I played this, it might as well be a new game to me. Here are some impressions from the very early game:

-I recognize voices from NWN2, I think. Mission sounds to me the same as Neeshka. Carth sounds like Bevil. There was a non-playable NPC woman in the Undercity area who sounded just like Elanee. Can anyone confirm or correct about the voice actors that may or may not be in common between the two games? One thing I immediately noticed - the classic "Bioware trope" of recruitable party NPC's is definitely in play here - childish female rogue, strong warrior-leader, and mysterious magical NPC's are immediately present in the game (Imoen-Jaheira/Minsc-Dynaheir; Neeshka-Khelgar-Elanee; Leliana-Alistair-Morrigan; Mission-Carth-Bastila). As per the usual formula, the main three class functions (fighter-rogue-mage) are represented very early in the game, such that the PC can be any class desired while still having all basic roles/functions covered.

-The music follows the classical formula. There is looping battle music that has a final coda that only plays at the end of combat (all enemies dead). The combat music and other soundtracks here are inspired by John Williams, and thankfully, Bioware and/or LucasArts somehow obtained rights to use several of the original Williams themes.

-The combat is the usual repetitive grind, as per NWN2 and DA:O. As long as you have good builds on all your party, and good gear, combat is basically click and kill, rinse and repeat. The draw is the story and character interaction, not combat. The very first NWN game marked a departure from the Baldur's Gate formula for Bioware, I think, as far as greatly downplaying tactical combat in favor of strategic character building and gear collection. In post BG Bioware games, starting with NWN1 and KOTOR, if you have a superlative build and gear, you are going to steamroll the combat without mods. That is, post BG Bioware games have game noobs in mind as a target audience, and are very, very noob friendly.

-NPC's have banter interactions with each other just like in BG. They also have planned conversations with the PC at various points in the game.

-I'm really liking the crafting system so far in KOTOR.

-Pazaak is interesting. The only other games I've played with an in-game card minigame have been MM7 and MM8. However, Pazaak seems to me almost the same as blackjack, with 20 as the win number instead of 21. The base chance of winning any hand is roughly 50-50, with rare cards that you can buy or find only increasing your odds to something like 60-40 if you do everything in the card game skillfully. I think it would be very, very hard to make any significant net credits playing Pazaak., just like playing Blackjack in Vegas or a tournament in real life.

-I already know the big twist at the end of this game, so I am reading all the dialogue in a different light. There are subtle hints in all the dialogues with Bastila and Carth, but you'd never guess it if you didn't already know. The twist is one of the best, most creative things about this game, so I would ask that that one huge spoiler be protected and respected in this thread.

I'm looking forward to continuing this run. I'd like to continue to post updates, thoughts, and impressions in this thread as I go, and it would be fantastic if some other people might post thoughts and/or start runs of their own.

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Comments

  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    edited December 2015
    >Mission sounds to me the same as Neeshka
    nope
    >Carth sounds like Bevil
    nope
    >non-playable NPC woman in the Undercity area who sounded just like Elanee
    nope

    I don't think there are any overlapping voice actors at all in fact.

  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    The one thing that I hate about Kotor is the part near the finale with Bastila. Particularly the alignment swing that occurs after it.

  • ReibornReiborn Member Posts: 156
    what about KOTOR2?

    regarding 2 there was a patch on steam (2 actually) which added achievements and some support to modern systems.
    also there are 2 mods in the steam community you can add which one restores cut content which was found on the game files and the other one adds teh cut planet of the hk factory.

    Also,
    note,
    if you make free-2-play account for SWTOR (kotor mmo) you can play for free for 50 levels or so which is the vanilla and gain access to the "class story" missions without paying a cent.

    the order of things is,
    KOTOR 1
    KOTOR 2
    Revan (Novel)
    SWTOR

    Swtor jedi knight class is basically KOTOR 3 story. but you get 7 other classes each with his own personal class story.
    I would not recommend getting into swtor that much as an mmo it sucks. they recently moved from 8 classes story to 2 sides story (republic and sith) then they moved to single story for everyone (basically you named outlander and get same dialog like every other class.
    they also planned to release 1 chapter (roughly 40 minutes content if you don't skip dialog) per month for 15$ sub which is sucks.
    but you can wait until all chapters are out pay 15$ one time and gain access to ALL chapters and all expansions pack for 1 month sub.

    Swtor is rather boring and buggy but the class stories are worth the effort at least once. they also changed leveling so you only need to do class story and main planet arc to be in the right level.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,961

    strong warrior-leader

    Carth

    Ahahahahahaha haa... Good one, Bel. ;)

    ReibornCrevsDaakSkatan
  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    Statement: the meatbag OP forgot to mention HK-47, although that guy alone makes the game worth playing.

    the_spyderCrevsDaakSkatan
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,765
    In regards to KOTOR 2, I'd strongly recommend the fan patch and the one that restores cut content. Never did get around to playing the card game, but that is a nice little homage to the later Might and Magic titles. All in all, these are far and away the best Star Wars games ever made (with the possible exception of the SNES Trilogy, which is actually pretty phenomenal as a group of action/platform games) and have an infinitely better story than Episodes 1-3.

    BelgarathMTH
  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 481
    skip the m87 planet addon! It was cut for a reason and bugs with the big restored content mod atm

    BelgarathMTH
  • ReibornReiborn Member Posts: 156
    which bugs and why the planet was cut?

    mostly I would want the restoration mode to fix the game ending.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
    edited December 2015
    Update 121615:

    I got off of Taris, went to Dantooine, and became a Jedi Warrior.

    Impressions:

    -I am going to unapologetically call things what they obviously are in this game, such as "TIE fighters", "star destroyers", "super star destroyers", "R2D2" (although I might call him T3 sporadically), "Yoda", "Mace Windu", "Bad C3P0" and so forth.

    -While attacking the Sith base on Taris and obtaining the departure codes, I encountered the puzzle to free a prisoner. I solved it relatively easily just by thinking about it, and experimenting with the switches carefully. Yet, when I last played this game at about age 35, (I am now 50), I struggled a lot with this little xp bonus and light side point bonus puzzle. Why am I finding things so easy in games like this now that I used to find hard? It's got to have something to do with life experience. The thing I've spent the most hours on in my life time is 50 years in gaming, even more than musical practice. "10,000 hours of practice to master any skill."

    -I used to hate, hate, HATE the "TIE fighter" turret battle upon leaving Taris, and I spent a lot of time pulling my hair out over it in my last run at roughly age 35, yet now, I beat it on my second try. The first try, I was just learning the environment, controls, and parameters of the unwanted mini-videogame. The second time, I just kept in mind the marksman's mantra - "Don't aim at where your target *is*, aim at where it's *going* to be." And I won pretty easily by remembering that. Why did I have such insight at age 50, and was so clueless at age 35? I'd say it's the "10,000 hours of practice" I've had in playing Bioware, Blizzard, and other rpg and action rpg games. Now, if only I'd spent those 10,000 hours practicing the piano, the viola, or the violin, my life would be very different right now. I can't say I'd be happier or more content, though.

    -I made a save just before becoming a Jedi to study the Jedi powers. I honestly don't see any benefit to giving up armor in order to build and activate "Armor restricted" Jedi powers that only last a short time. The best light side powers that enhance my play style are things like Force Persuade, Force Push, "Droid Stun", and "Bio Stun", and you can use all of those while wearing armor. You can also build and use Cure (Party) while wearing armor. So, my preferred class of "Cleric" seems best represented by the "Jedi Warrior". I always used to think I was a green-wielding "Consular", but given my gaming style, I think the blue-wielding "Jedi Warrior" suits me much better.

    VallmyrSkatan
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,851
    I have a question is Kotor canon? Because I loved the stuff with the rataka, and the celestials, and the awi... I practically love all the pre republic stuff!!!

    Also mandelorian.4lyfe!

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,961
    It's not canon. I don't know if it used to be, but they stripped the whole expanded universe of canonicalitude some time ago, so it definitely isn't now.

  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    edited December 2015
    Rakata Prime is definitely canon https://i.imgur.com/1zg2deT.jpg
    I also understand that Moraband is a different name for Korriban

    CrevsDaak
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,851
    edited December 2015
    @iKrivetko @scriver
    So the infinite empire is canon, but revan and the stuff around him is not? I do remember reading that some stuff got removed from canon.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,961
    It's more like everything exist in a bit of a "might be might not be" state until confirmed. They just don't want to be held back by non-movie stuff, but that obviously does not mean they won't go to non-movie stuff for reference, context, or inspiration. Schrödinger's Canon, if you will. We don't know until they open the box.

    elminster
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,152

    -I made a save just before becoming a Jedi to study the Jedi powers. I honestly don't see any benefit to giving up armor in order to build and activate "Armor restricted" Jedi powers that only last a short time. The best light side powers that enhance my play style are things like Force Persuade, Force Push, "Droid Stun", and "Bio Stun", and you can use all of those while wearing armor. You can also build and use Cure (Party) while wearing armor. So, my preferred class of "Cleric" seems best represented by the "Jedi Warrior". I always used to think I was a green-wielding "Consular", but given my gaming style, I think the blue-wielding "Jedi Warrior" suits me much better.

    Here comes the powerplay...
    1) If you're stacking Wisdom (and thus have a lot of Force) get Heal/Cure however it is called. It heals a LOT.
    2) No matter what, in KotOR 1, having 3 points in Flurry, two in single-weapon style and 3 in Force Speed is OP. You kill *anything* under two rounds, and by the time stuff can resist to you, you have enough Prototype Shields to tank them for an hour.
    3) If your Charisma is very high, you can use Dark Side powers without any "bad things happening" basically.

    -I used to hate, hate, HATE the "TIE fighter" turret battle upon leaving Taris

    I used to like it... Until I played the game on the iPad. God, THAT was difficult.

    With that said, I'm leaving all the SW related threads, websites and stuff until I finally watch the movie.

    BelgarathMTHNimran
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,851
    edited December 2015
    I was always the Jedi consular, just gave myself alot of wisdom, guess who played the game as a pure force user :smiley:

    BelgarathMTH
  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    edited December 2015
    On my first playthrough I had a strength-focused Scout/Guardian with a double-bladed sword. It took me two flurries to bring Malak from full to zero. Watching people on youtube run away from him spamming heals, shields, traps and other stuff was rather amusing after that.

    BelgarathMTH
  • ReibornReiborn Member Posts: 156
    the most uber build of kotor 1 and 2 is dark side force user. spamming lightning and leech life is amazingly good.

    My favourite while playing as light side is soldier\guardian with 2 lightsabers (dual wield) and flurry...
    you jump in, flurry to death everything.
    also if you go to yavin 4 number of times (3 or 4) the vendor get new stuff. the last update is 2 color crystals with unique bonuses that you can use so pretty good.

    KoToR 2 is lot more in depth but same concept.
    in KOTOR 2 my actually favourite build was to play dark side actually then double bladed saber and then go sentinel (max skill points) with sith assassin.
    you can sneak, set and disable traps, handle droids and computers... pretty epic. most fights everyone dies before fight started and at the end you also get cheesy options in quests.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,051
    edited December 2015
    I remember the end of Kotor 2 getting pretty silly near the end particularly if you go dark side.

    Once you get Force Crush you are basically unstoppable. Boss fights become a cakewalk since they can't do anything to you.

  • ReibornReiborn Member Posts: 156
    well KoTor 2 added so many new stuff to character builds you became pretty crazy soon as you finished the first planet.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,851
    @iKrivetko
    Wait... Malak was hard? I played a pure force user with no strength or dex or anything. I practically wrecked the entire starforge. I had a harder time starting out, before becoming a Jedi, then I did fighting malak. I'll emit, against those Freaking (can't remember their name) that are immune to the force... Yea, I was running like a little girl. Then again I usually had the lovely bastilla and mission with me to handle things I couldn't, but those were rare occasions.

    @elminster @Googleness
    2 brought in the light saber stances... And it was a wrap! I had a stance that lowered the cost of force abilities and regened force if I remember correctly, and a stance that increased force abilities effectiveness but increased their cost. Yea, nothing stood before me... I still need to beat 2, I got about halfway through the and my laptop broke.

  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    edited December 2015
    @BelgarathMTH
    By the way, I just realised that the last playthrough on my iPhone was with an armoured Scout/Guardian 7/13. This allows you to go strength-based and still have reasonable AC, similar to what you would have with a strength-based unarmoured jedi with all the buffs, perhaps even a bit higher.

    Heal, Energy resistance and Force Wave can be used while wearing armour, which is pretty much everything you need. The only bummer is that you can't use Force Speed meaning your exploration will take much more time than usual (Force Jump helps a bit); and naturally your damage output is way lower than it could have been.

    BelgarathMTH
  • ReibornReiborn Member Posts: 156
    in kotor 2 there is heavy armor which allows you to use force powers.

    BelgarathMTH
  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    It's not heavy by any means.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    @iKrivetko @scriver
    So the infinite empire is canon, but revan and the stuff around him is not? I do remember reading that some stuff got removed from canon.

    Everything that wasn't in the movies, cartoon series, or books released since the reset button was pressed this year is no longer canon. However, that doesn't mean it definitely didn't happen. It means it might or might not have happened, or may have happened differently. Hence it is called "legends".

    Since Rakata Prime is mentioned in the official TFA map, the planet's name is part of the new canon, but that doesn't mean the Infinite Empire definately existed. There are similar examples: Darth Plagieus still existed, but his species may no longer be Muun.

    I think it was actually included as an aknowlegment. JJ Abrams is clearly a big fan of KOTOR, since as well as steeling the look of Revan and Bastilla, he also plundered some plot elements, which it would be too spoilerish to mention.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
    edited December 2015
    I just restarted my game, because I discovered the widescreen mod(s). I didn't want to change my character or any of my game decisions, but after I stumbled onto this Let's Play...

    It looked so beautiful that I couldn't stand the 800x600 graphics any more. I decided that I *must* play the game in beautiful high definition 1920x1080.

    So, I spent most of my time yesterday finding out about the mods and trying to get them to work. There are two mods out there that can make the game play in HD:
    1) UNIWS
    http://www.wsgf.org/article/star-wars-knights-old-republic

    and 2) Flawless Widescreen
    http://www.flawlesswidescreen.org/

    It turned out that I couldn't get either mod to work with my Steam edition. I followed some instructional videos and posts from some people who have gotten it to work, but I had no luck after several hours of trying. So, I shelled out $10 to buy the GoG edition. Still no luck, so I wasted my money there.

    In desperation, I got out my old discs and made a disc install. Eureka! UNIWS worked with my discs, except for one problem - the interface (using the provided 1920x1080 HUD override) was expanded outside the borders of my TV screen. I can work around that by reducing the picture on my TV, leaving a black border around the screen. I've decided I can live with that. The graphics are just too stunningly beautiful to go back to the other version.

    Another minus is that my programmable mouse buttons for pausing and quicksaving do not work with the disc install version of the game, whereas they did work with both Steam and GoG versions. Again, I've decided I can live with that.

    I haven't looked at the updated Steam version of KOTOR 2 yet. Did they include widescreen resolution support in that? If not, I may be replaying KOTOR 2 from discs. UNIWS doesn't support KOTOR 2, but hopefully I can get Flawless Widescreen to work.

    Does anyone know a way to get a disc-install version of KOTOR 1 to accept programmable mouse button commands? This is a problem is several old games, so I'd appreciate if anyone knows how to solve it. Maybe a new command line in the .ini file?

    Thanks.

    Reiborn
  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 481
    steam kotor 2 has native widescreen. Too bad they skipped kotor 1 though

    BelgarathMTHelminster
  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 798

    @iKrivetko
    Wait... Malak was hard? I played a pure force user with no strength or dex or anything. I practically wrecked the entire starforge. I had a harder time starting out, before becoming a Jedi, then I did fighting malak. I'll emit, against those Freaking (can't remember their name) that are immune to the force... Yea, I was running like a little girl. Then again I usually had the lovely bastilla and mission with me to handle things I couldn't, but those were rare occasions.

    Malak was very variable, depending on what type of character you had. My first game was a light sider who only relied on force powers, and didn't have the best ones for the final fight I suppose. Despite finding the game easy until the final battle, I had to turn the difficulty down to easy and I still reloaded a ton, almost quitting. It was a pretty poorly designed battle really, because some builds that had no real trouble at all until that point could find it almost impossible.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Stun/disable/destroy droid and throw sabre are effective in the final fight and are available to lightsiders, and anyway, most consular builds will have the stats to use dark side powers. I think you would have to work really hard to come up with a build that didn't have any useful powers that also couldn't just smack Malek's butt however many times it takes.

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