Baldur's Gate EE is a cheap moneygrab. No? Prove me wrong then!
Hadriel
Member Posts: 13
1. The adventure "Black Pits" is not even incorporated within the game itself.
2. Portraits are not in style with the original portraits.
3. 95% of "400 fixes" are being done by the gamers/community, not developers. It's free labor.
4. Some refinement content is being added from modders who gave them their permission, Beamdog just added it to the game, just like anyone can. PPE yes.
5. Translations are done by gamers/community.
6. User interface does not feel professionally made. Yes I know Beamdog has been telling how much they have to fight the code, but that's not the customers problem. That's YOUR problem, especially since we are paying for this product.
7. Widescreen and high resolutions has also been made available by modders, once again, it's been done by the community/gamers.
So to sum it up, this is what's left to be honest:
1. A few soundsets, some refined "art cinematics" and 3 new npcs. THAT. IS. IT. Does that sound like 20 dollars worth to you? I would love someone to objectively disagree with me. Yes I was there playing 24/7 when vanilla BG first launched. The thing is I have actually managed to take the nostalgia glasses off and see the forest for the trees now.
2. Portraits are not in style with the original portraits.
3. 95% of "400 fixes" are being done by the gamers/community, not developers. It's free labor.
4. Some refinement content is being added from modders who gave them their permission, Beamdog just added it to the game, just like anyone can. PPE yes.
5. Translations are done by gamers/community.
6. User interface does not feel professionally made. Yes I know Beamdog has been telling how much they have to fight the code, but that's not the customers problem. That's YOUR problem, especially since we are paying for this product.
7. Widescreen and high resolutions has also been made available by modders, once again, it's been done by the community/gamers.
So to sum it up, this is what's left to be honest:
1. A few soundsets, some refined "art cinematics" and 3 new npcs. THAT. IS. IT. Does that sound like 20 dollars worth to you? I would love someone to objectively disagree with me. Yes I was there playing 24/7 when vanilla BG first launched. The thing is I have actually managed to take the nostalgia glasses off and see the forest for the trees now.
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Comments
However, what excites me about the EE and what I pay for is the potential inherent in having a developer with ties to the original one attempting to acquire the Baldur's Gate license and look over, polish, expand on the games. It's my favourite game series, and I never thought it would receive any more attention outside of the modding communities. So to know that the BG:EE and the BG2:EE will come out, that there might be a BG3, that there will likely be additional future content in the shape of DLC, that the games are once again supported and discussed and hopefully brought out to a larger audience, well.. to me that is worth a whole lot more than $20. I'm not going to say how much as it might give beamdog ideas for what to charge for BG2, but yeah. The current price I'd pay without blinking. I've spent more on cinema tickets.
Fair price..not like they're trying to charge ya blockbuster AAA new game price..geez
- Support for future BG3
-Release for other platform than PC.
- More optimized code, which I think will help modders
-I got all features withouth spending a day on instaling mods, in which many of them are incombatibile with my release of game. BG:EE is one release, so it will be combatible, when modders will tweak they work of art to work with BG:EE.
- Tweaks for hard-coded bugs
- Multi-platform multiplayer
- It's enhanced edition, not a remake. It's not a brand-new game, ignorant.
- Don't like it, don't buy it. I think you're intelligent enought to compeherd my words.
If someone, anyone, takes one of my favorite games ever, fixes 400 bugs, adds 3 NPCs, makes it high res, adds a shitty Survival mode, adds some portraits I'm not using because they don't fit the art style, adds some art cinematics, and puts the "official" label on it, it is totally worth $20 to me.
I put $50 in my car to drive around for a little under a week. I'm pretty sure that labor, whether it be official or a bunch of fans (basically a bunch of fans, as you say), is worth $20.
I completely agree that the way Beamdog is handling BG:EE is entirely unprofessional and honestly something that any modding community could do. However, putting it all in one roof, putting the "official" label on it, and offering to keep it frequently updated, IS worth $20 to me.
Portraits are in a different style because it's a different artist. If I recall correctly the original BG1 artist may be dead. Next question.
Your 95% stat is without basis or factual support. Some members of the mod community have been consulted or employed by overhaul. Next question.
Adding existing mod content to the game and crediting the original creator is not a problem. Nothing has been stolen, everything is credited & agreed with the IP owners. Next question.
Coordinating and implementing translations is not free and requires action by the team. Tbh I don't care about this part being an English speaker. Next question.
How are you commenting on the UI on an unreleased game? I'd dearly love your beta key if you don't want it. Trent Oster commented on the ongoing UI updates so anything we've seen in screens is evidently work-in-progress. Next question.
Having a built in, fully working widescreen feature with upscaling and zoom is not something I'm going to complain about.
Obvious troll is obvious, I'm only replying because I'm bored.
1. I know, but this doesn't really contribute anything to your argument?
2. The BG2 portraits are not in the same style as the BG1 portraits,but again this doesn't add anything to your argument
3. I don't understand where this statistic comes from, and I am certain that the only people with access to the source code of BG:EE are team members
4. You could decide you don't like the mods being added in but this was never an advertised feature in any of the promotional stuff so I don't think this adds anything to your argument?
5. I don't play the translated versions but I agree this sounds a reasonable enough complaint, particularly if you are concerned about possible substandard translations
6. Feel professionally made? Do you mean doesn't look professional? UI aethetics are a matter of personal taste - a lot of people have criticised some or all of it, others are pleased with the change. I don't see many people criticising that it looks "unprofessional" though, just different and for some people, worse.
7. Yes but the widescreen and higher resolution mods have all had major issues with text, spacing and readability which remain problems to this day. Again this doesn't really add anything to your point and contradicts point 3. Surelyjust using the existing modded version would be the cheap money-grubbing solution?
Overall it seems that your point is more that you don't like the proposed enhanced edition enhancements, and this list is 7 of your least favourite aspects - but not very many of your issues support your opening statement
. I will have to assume that the title was more a headline grabbing way of getting people into this thread rather than the main basis of the arguments you have presented here
Of course I can't "Prove" anything wrong, but I can demonstrate failure to coherently support your argument.
2. And yet other portraits you download will not always be in the same style as the original either. Frankly I really enjoy the new portraits and plan on adding in the IWD and IWD2 portraits into the game anyway. Therefore the new portraits do not bother me.
3. And yet the developers are also working with the same community to make it even easier to mod and install mods in the game. And we don't know for certain that there has been no payment or other incentives for these mod creators that are allowing Beamdog to use their work.
4. See #3
5. The benefit of this (not saying you're wrong) is that fewer things will be lost in translation.
6. I personally like the new user interface. Giving me your opinion and then trying to present it as fact is just a bad argument. And frankly as someone who has worked with code before I understand their problems and respect the trouble they had to go through.
7. All the current widescreen mod does is put a black frame around my screen and otherwise resizes it. Furthermore the game currently has multiple problems on windows 7, which updated support and what they've currently done seek to eliminate. Heck just updated official support for the game at all would be worth $20.
Summary:
1. Finally considering Trent was on the original BG, I'm willing to give him an $18 chance to recreate my favorite series of all time and updated for our age.
Recently however, a fan ported Sonic CD to the iOS, and Sega worked with them to get it officially licensed. Guess what, it was the best port of a Sonic game in positively ages. Fan labor works.
On a serious note a Mac standalone & support version is worth $50+ for me
2. They are, they just need to increase the contrast a bit and finetune.
3. Could you make a list of those 375 fixes? Sure, some of those fixes have been fixed by modders, but in my experience those fixes aren't perfect.
5. So what? Are you saying they should have hired professional translators, and sell this game for 30$ instead? Oh, wait, then you'll complain even more about the cost of this game.
6. Uh... really? So the overhaul team spends a lot of effort and money on fixing the code, and then you complain that this is a cheap money grab? Those programmers have to get paid too, you know.
7. The widescreen mod doesn't upscale the game view on high resolutions or has a zoom feature. The widescreen mod doesn't support widescreen GUI. Like I said, most mods get the job done, but they're not perfect.
You're also ignoring a few important things:
a. Maybe you only care about the PC version, but other people want to play on a tablet. Porting an old game to tablets isn't an easy task and costs money. You can't expect that for free.
b. Baldur's gate is an entire game, and you're paying for the entire game, not just the additional content. People who have never played the game get hundreds of hours of new content for just 20$. I don't see how you're entitled to a discount because you already played it.
Plus, you can't really say if it's worth it or not before you see the added content. If everything they wrote on the main page is true we should have additional 15+ hours of gameplay (hopefully a good quality gameplay). People are willing to pay the money for what they think is worth it. See the game called LIMBO for example, it costs 10 euros and can be completed in 3 hours or even less but still is very liked and highly recommended by players.
It's too soon to judge I'd say.
I respectfully ask that you please change your argumentative tone on this forum. There is no reason for your hostility or tone.
I'm willing to have a discussion about your concerns but we can do so in a friendly, reasonable manner.
It's not remotely a discussion, just a rant about a product none of us have had the chance to play in a completed form yet.
This is true. It's also worth noting that original party members will ONLY interact with new party members inside those new areas, which means that, story-wise, ALL of the new content is completely divorced from the original content. No term is more appropriate than 'superfluous.' Yes, this sucks. But apparently this is one thing we can't blame Beamdog for, as apparently their license does not allow them to much alter -any- of the original content of the game. Supposedly.
2. Portraits are not in style with the original portraits.
This one makes me wonder. We've got all the original portraits from the Baldur's Gate saga in the game. Great. And then we've got some extra ones. If you don't think they mesh, don't use them. Me? I think they match the original style well enough. And if you'll notice, the portraits in Shadows of Amn weren't done in quite the same style as the original game. And if you've ever downloaded -any- custom portraits, they all always clash with the original art style even WORSE. This is not a negative. Not a demerit. At it's very worst, it's neutral.
3. 95% of "400 fixes" are being done by the gamers/community, not developers. It's free labor.
The idea here is that they're incorporating community fixes into the game. Would you rather they didn't and that we would all have to download a bunch of different fixpacks? The whole point of this game is to be able to quickly and easily install and play Baldur's Gate on any platform. If it did not include community fixes, THAT I would complain about.
4. Some refinement content is being added from modders who gave them their permission, Beamdog just added it to the game, just like anyone can. PPE yes.
Again, I don't see how that's a bad thing. It seems much better than them not doing it, and far more logical than them doing work independently that modders have already done. That's pointlessly redundant and drives resources away from more important concerns.
5. Translations are done by gamers/community.
Do you have any idea how expensive localizations are? Many international gamers are forced to play games in non-native languages. And that SUCKS. Gamers in China shouldn't be forced to play the game in Japanese. Gamers in Germany shouldn't have to play the game in English. And you can argue that, eventually, multilingual support could arise naturally from the community, with no involvement from Beamdog... but where does that leave the iOS version? Those translations are the property of the translators; working with the community to get things like this done is vital and necessary.
6. User interface does not feel professionally made. Yes I know Beamdog has been telling how much they have to fight the code, but that's not the customers problem. That's YOUR problem, especially since we are paying for this product.
First off, Beamdog has not deigned to share any real screenshots showing off the new, finished UI or high-resolution display. This is something I've spoken on, very critically, to a great extent. As for it not feeling "professionally done," that's just silly. Go back and look at the original Baldur's Gate again. I don't think you're accurately remembering just what an unwieldy GUI it was.
7. Widescreen and high resolutions has also been made available by modders, once again, it's been done by the community/gamers.
It has, and it hasn't. The widescreen mods "break" the game. This is because backgrounds/sprites don't scale, so the only way to display everything properly at a high resolution is to zoom the camera out revealing far more of the map of an area than the game originally intended--thus making it IMPOSSIBLE to play the game as it was meant to be played at non-native resolutions. The fact that they're fixing this in BGEE is, to me, the biggest, most tangible item in its favor.
...
I've been very critical of Beamdog--and to a lesser extent Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition--in the past. There are many valid questions, concerns and criticisms that deserve serious, reasoned discussion. Quite a lot, actually. You, however, are harming our ability as consumers to honestly debate the real issues with the game and Beamdog itself by raising multiple invalid and overly subjective points. An action which serves no real purpose but to obfuscate the very real issues at hand. It's clear to me that you really haven't spent much time learning about just what, exactly, the Enhanced Edition really is--nor are you very familiar with what the original Baldur's Gate is--and you've spent even less time thinking about it.
In general, in life, I find the best policy is to consider what you are about to say /before/ you speak. I would suggest you emulate that method as best you're able.
Oh, another important feature: fixed multiplayer. I think anyone who ever played this game in multiplayer can see how this is a big feature.
You're point here is false. @Tanthalas has confirmed that in other threads. The new NPCs will be able to interact with the old NPCs throughout the game.
So for $8.00 more I get:
3 New characters, including one I can romance *bats eyelashes at Neera*
New areas, which means that once again we can have that feeling of exploration we first had in BG1
New cinematics
Bug fixes
New soundsets by professional voice actors, including the fantastic Mark Meer
A host of other features
I think you underestimate the value of new NPCs to the roleplayers among us. Just on a whim, how many ladies here would pay $5.00 to have a professionally-made romance option in BG2 other than Anomen?
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/71333/#Comment_71333
There is a link to the comment itself. @Tanthalas is one of our mods on the forum and works with Beamdog